Do forces do the worst damage?

@ARKHAM-CANNON said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

Another huge problem is that for urgent quests, especially the mining bases, forces can be a huge liability for damage. Other classes are moving quickly through the level dismantling midbosses and mobs while it takes you almost 10 seconds to get off one spell. I am utterly surprised how this poor mechanic has lasted all of these years.

If the game didn't allow you to bring characters on long with your soloing than forces would be an absolute disaster. Thankfully the saving grace is NPCs and especially gizonde that makes killing mobs a lot easier.

Huh? My experience has been the complete opposite. I usually find myself in the top 3 per wave on the mining base quests, just by traveling around using ilzonde and then destroying the waves with gizonde, then switching up to grants or ragrants on the boss enemies. On areas like that I also love using a Talis, as throwing it out lets you cast techs closer to the spawns without having to travel as far.

The charge time of most techs is 0.5-1sec, nowhere near 10 seconds.

On both VH and SH I kill most enemies with a single charged tech, no matter which one I use. I find the NPCs are basically useless and only bring them along to get the extra XP bonus.

@Cheltaran13 said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

The charge time of most techs is 0.5-1sec, nowhere near 10 seconds.

On both VH and SH I kill most enemies with a single charged tech, no matter which one I use. I find the NPCs are basically useless and only bring them along to get the extra XP bonus.

Agree on this. Tbh I use Megid most often and it only takes me probably just over 1 second to charge, faster if I get a perfect charge. Longest regular use tech I use is Ilfoie and that only takes 3. Not to mention the reduced casting time you can get for fire.

Fo can do some crazy shenanigans, do you have Compounds yet or are they still unreleased in this version? Also when custom PAs and Techs hit your dmg should go up since you can make Techs more spammable/more damaging when depending which is better for your abilities.

@Gerbilios said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

Fo can do some crazy shenanigans, do you have Compounds yet or are they still unreleased in this version? Also when custom PAs and Techs hit your dmg should go up since you can make Techs more spammable/more damaging when depending which is better for your abilities.

The 3 main compound techs just released on NA after last maintenance (I think it was last Tuesday or Wednesday? Whenever PC was released). The simple compound techs aren't out yet, nor tech crafting.

@Cheltaran13 said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

@Gerbilios said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

Fo can do some crazy shenanigans, do you have Compounds yet or are they still unreleased in this version? Also when custom PAs and Techs hit your dmg should go up since you can make Techs more spammable/more damaging when depending which is better for your abilities.

The 3 main compound techs just released on NA after last maintenance (I think it was last Tuesday or Wednesday? Whenever PC was released). The simple compound techs aren't out yet, nor tech crafting.

Indeed, i wanna get my Type 0 PAs but seems its ways off. Wish they released crafting quickly.

@Cheltaran13 said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

@ARKHAM-CANNON said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

Another huge problem is that for urgent quests, especially the mining bases, forces can be a huge liability for damage. Other classes are moving quickly through the level dismantling midbosses and mobs while it takes you almost 10 seconds to get off one spell. I am utterly surprised how this poor mechanic has lasted all of these years.

If the game didn't allow you to bring characters on long with your soloing than forces would be an absolute disaster. Thankfully the saving grace is NPCs and especially gizonde that makes killing mobs a lot easier.

Huh? My experience has been the complete opposite. I usually find myself in the top 3 per wave on the mining base quests, just by traveling around using ilzonde and then destroying the waves with gizonde, then switching up to grants or ragrants on the boss enemies. On areas like that I also love using a Talis, as throwing it out lets you cast techs closer to the spawns without having to travel as far.

The charge time of most techs is 0.5-1sec, nowhere near 10 seconds.

On both VH and SH I kill most enemies with a single charged tech, no matter which one I use. I find the NPCs are basically useless and only bring them along to get the extra XP bonus.

Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and say much of this is demonstrably not true at all, **with a **

Please provide video with timers showing that your half a second charged ilmegid is one-shotting enemies in SH. This I must see. Also gonna need to see your stats. My damage output is 2k. Your loadout + skill rings, etc would have to be set up something fierce.

I'd also love to see one of your screen recordings of how you handle the mining quests because there's no way of force can compare to the bouncers and rangers what's the inseam distance that they have even if your charging have second again and again and again because at some point you have to stop and build PP. Please enlighten us all.

It's either you're doing insane damage or this just simply isn't the case. Just saying check charging as fast doesn't make it true I've been maining Force for months. Not to be combative, but there's also the case of illfoie, which has a very long charge, probably the longest of any tech, even with fast tech charge in use.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's possible (this is PSO), but what you're saying is totally impossible with the force that I've been using. I've seen a video of a force recently that could hit a hundred thousand damage. Of course they don't mention the actual build besides the fact they were using a 1600 power psycho wand.

If I'm incorrect which I'm not because I'm simply demonstrating when I've played for the last 3 months, then show us the way please. If I and others out there that I've had the same experience have a busted Force, and give us your setups. Screenshots of your skill sheet, character info, ring info, everything.

Let's do this!!👌👌👌

I can't say Forces do the worst damage if I can manage to earn 20th place in the Solo Nav.I TA rankings on Ship 1 when I barely just started when the game just hit PC. I'm only Fo69/Te55 with a Nox Lipher+20, and Luther units. It might be partially due to skill from playing a lot on JP, but the point is: Forces aren't powerless. Gizonde, Nazonde, Gifoie, Rafoie, and Foie are probably my most used combative techs. Ilzonde is also great for mobility. I do use Shifta when need be, and Zanverse on bosses and raids to do a lot of extra DPS.

I'm not going to address everything here because I'm at work and can't check my actual game stats, but I'll address a few things:

@ARKHAM-CANNON said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and say much of this is demonstrably not true at all, **with a **

Please provide video with timers showing that your half a second charged ilmegid is one-shotting enemies in SH. This I must see. Also gonna need to see your stats. My damage output is 2k. Your loadout + skill rings, etc would have to be set up something fierce.

Ok, when I said "most techs", I meant the ones actually worth using. Ilmegid sucks. And even then it would probably only take 2-3 casts to kill things. I hope when you say "damage output is 2k" you're meaning your tech attack stat? Or do you mean actual damage numbers? I'm not even max level and I don't have the best gear, and most of my techs will do 5 figure damage on a charged hit. If I remember tonight I can try and get some actual numbers.

I'd also love to see one of your screen recordings of how you handle the mining quests because there's no way of force can compare to the bouncers and rangers what's the inseam distance that they have even if your charging have second again and again and again because at some point you have to stop and build PP. Please enlighten us all.

If you've maxed out PP restorate, PP convert, Charge PP Revival, and bolt tech PP save then you shouldn't really be having issues with PP (bolt tech save is fantastic for being able to spam ilzonde as a movement tech). Honestly, I had trouble with PP in the tutorial level before I had Charge PP Revival, and it's been a non-issue since then. If I do manage to dump all of my PP all it takes is 1-2 talis throws and it's back up again. And there's only a few techs that even touch my PP most of the time, for example ragrants. Most of the techs barely put a dent in my PP because of the natural PP regen.

It's either you're doing insane damage or this just simply isn't the case. Just saying check charging as fast doesn't make it true I've been maining Force for months. Not to be combative, but there's also the case of illfoie, which has a very long charge, probably the longest of any tech, even with fast tech charge in use.

IMO ilfoie sucks. I'm sure it has its uses, but they seem niche at best. Foie, Gifoie, and Rafoie all shit all over it. That's all I'm gonna say there.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's possible (this is PSO), but what you're saying is totally impossible with the force that I've been using. I've seen a video of a force recently that could hit a hundred thousand damage. Of course they don't mention the actual build besides the fact they were using a 1600 power psycho wand.

If I'm incorrect which I'm not because I'm simply demonstrating when I've played for the last 3 months, then show us the way please. If I and others out there that I've had the same experience have a busted Force, and give us your setups. Screenshots of your skill sheet, character info, ring info, everything.

Let's do this!!👌👌👌

As I said I'm at work so I can't check all my character details, but my character is far from optimised, so I don't really think that's the issue. Off the top of my head:

  • 71/60 Fo/Te (not even max level yet)
  • My units are average at best, I have 2 pieces of the Brissa set and they're not maxed or augmented properly yet
  • My R ring I'm currently leveling quick illusion so that I can combine them into Defence Tech ring, L ring I've got Hunter Physique which I haven't even bothered leveling yet so it's lvl 1
  • Weapon is Card Revolsio +10 (again, not maxed)
  • 200 t-atk mag
  • My build is roughly like this (working from memory so it might not be 100%) https://bit.ly/2U21pJf

My character is pretty average in terms of gear progression, so I would have assumed my experience was the norm and not the exception. If I had fully min/maxed gear I can see how some of the people in the videos are doing such insane damage. Plus there's others chiming in above saying similar things. If you want to post your build I can give you some tips.

Edit: Ok, so I got home and pulled up free exploration Abandoned Mine SH, just to see some actual numbers. Enemies are all weak to lightning, so was using gizonde. Does roughly 45k-55k damage per hit, which is enough to 1-shot pretty much all the enemies in the level. If it hits a weak spot the damage jumps to 90k-100k a hit. On the boss it took a few casts of grants to kill those ring things he throws around, with each cast doing something like 8k per hit x5 hits = 40k. Then when he was stunned a single cast of Barantsion took him out. And again, my character isn't even geared that well compared to some others out there.

With the release of the lvl 15 techs and the combination techs Force/Techer have gotten a really good buff.

@Superluuuu3619

There's a lightning tech that gives you forward movement that's pretty good, and you can also step attack dash loop with a gunblade on a force too. But forces don't need to worry about small monsters. If the monster has enough HP to still be alive by the time you get there, it shouldn't be alive a few seconds after you arrive.

@Trancera

Hey, thx

That tech for me does 3.3k first hit, 2500 second. so it doesnt do me much good unfortunately. one charged gizonde will do 13k+.

And i know thats abotu half of what i could be doing if i could ge thre moon and stars to align

@Cheltaran13 said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

Does roughly 45k-55k damage per hit, which is enough to 1-shot pretty much all the enemies in the level. If it hits a weak spot the damage jumps to 90k-100k a hit. On the boss it took a few casts of grants to kill those ring things he throws around, with each cast doing something like 8k per hit x5 hits = 40k.

Now we're talking, pardon if my tone sounded sharp...its just the way i type ⛏

My gizonde has never done even 20k/hit (i only refer to fully charged techs, just fyi)... the max ive ever seen is 15-17ish, on that same level (luv the robots!!!). Most normal bots die in one hit in VHAQ, two if needed. For SH lv70 fields, could be 3-4 gizondes before the mobs start to fall.

This is my pain, +++ charging a spell every damn minute makes scoring decently on Mining base literally impossible for me unless i get perfect illoie situations.

IMHO, ilfoie is spectacular, with all my boosts applied usually hits for 35k. It is grand for any field where enemies bunch up- namely daybreak, mines, forest, and floating facility. Otherwise, if your team is keeping the goons busy, you can play the back and drop meteors on the mobs/minibosses from farrrr away.

90-100k damage....yeah like the numbers i presented to you, those are my max, which is 2-3 orders of magnitude lowers that yours.

Either ive done something(s) veryyyyyyyyy wrong, or soemthign is veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy weird.

@ARKHAM-CANNON said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

@Cheltaran13 said in Do forces do the worst damage?:

Does roughly 45k-55k damage per hit, which is enough to 1-shot pretty much all the enemies in the level. If it hits a weak spot the damage jumps to 90k-100k a hit. On the boss it took a few casts of grants to kill those ring things he throws around, with each cast doing something like 8k per hit x5 hits = 40k.

Now we're talking, pardon if my tone sounded sharp...its just the way i type ⛏

My gizonde has never done even 20k/hit (i only refer to fully charged techs, just fyi)... the max ive ever seen is 15-17ish, on that same level (luv the robots!!!). Most normal bots die in one hit in VHAQ, two if needed. For SH lv70 fields, could be 3-4 gizondes before the mobs start to fall.

This is my pain, +++ charging a spell every damn minute makes scoring decently on Mining base literally impossible for me unless i get perfect illoie situations.

IMHO, ilfoie is spectacular, with all my boosts applied usually hits for 35k. It is grand for any field where enemies bunch up- namely daybreak, mines, forest, and floating facility. Otherwise, if your team is keeping the goons busy, you can play the back and drop meteors on the mobs/minibosses from farrrr away.

90-100k damage....yeah like the numbers i presented to you, those are my max, which is 2-3 orders of magnitude lowers that yours.

Either ive done something(s) veryyyyyyyyy wrong, or soemthign is veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy weird.

Hmm. My best guess is either your skill tree is missing some of the boost skills, or your techs are low level. Because those numbers do seem a bit low. Make sure you have all of these skills: Elemental Conversion, Advanced Tech. Perfect Attacks, Advanced Tech Charge 1 and 2. In the Techer tree you want Elemental Precision Hit and Tech Charge JA Addition as well. Plus you should have enough points in the Techer tree to max out all 3 elements, and enough in the Force tree to get 5/10 flame/freeze/lightning mastery 1 and 5/5 flame/freeze/lightning mastery 2.

Those values are all multiplicative, so end up with something close to: 1.225 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.14 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 268% damage.

(1.225 is elemental conversion if your weapons element is not matching your tech and your weapon has 50 element on it. It would be more if you matched and/or had 60 element, up to 1.3). I also have an extra 1.2 from Talis Tech Bonus, but even without that your techs should still be hitting harder than they are.

If you have all of those and are still doing very low damage then there must be something else missing from your build, but I'm not sure what. Are you hitting your perfect attack windows? Although Tech Charge JA Addition should help with that so it's not as important.

Once you fill out your Fo/Te skill trees and get Gizonde lv.15 + your compound techniques, your damage output is absolutely absurd as a Force.

Techniques get better when crafting comes out, and it even fixes weapons like wired lances and launchers with better PAs.