Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?

YOU CAN SKIP THIS: So I am enjoying this game, but in all honesty It makes me feel more like loading up my GameCube and playing my classic one. There are a lot of limitations in this game, many behind a pay wall but that doesn't necessarily make the game pay to win or broken. I been spoiled with companies Like DE while playing warframe where free to play games can really be free. I have never spent any $ on it and have enjoyed the hell out of it. almost 95% of the game fashion which you don't really need, and you can earn your own in game currency (platinum). But here it feels like if you are not premium, if you don't have the mission pass, you lose out on tons of content and enjoyment. Yes that would make people want to play it etc for rooms. But i feel like most of it is limiting to player who don't have premium. The bare basics to survive, like a room where only 1 bed kills all your space. +aux. ANYWAYS, TOPIC QUESTION I think it would kind of cool to allow an option to have another sub to your already existing sub. I think $15 is a good price to allow you to add another class to your already main/sub. My original reason being, as a retro player my main class was a Hunter with basic techniques like resta. But a lot of my weapons that i was able to use as a hunter are locked. I carry all my weapons and do switch/play style when needed, but on some weapons I am limited to not being able to do the photon arts. So I had to make the chose of not being able to run my secondary as force and went hunter/xxxsubclass. The other reason for this option would be to shut up all the elitist players i have seen on phantasy star making the community very toxic. I have never seen a worse community when it comes to what classes to run. I get that those who played the 2012 jap version have more knowledge then those jumping back. But playing your style is what makes it fun, and having to run example META classes to best work is a bit frustrating. Adding multiple classes will put these players in the same level as everyone else because then everyone would just do what they like, play with their fav weapons, and other will just buy it all for op solo play which also wouldn't be bad. Again, thank you for the time taken to read this, it was something I was considering for a while now.

While your reasoning is uh... understandable. Putting this behind a paywall would be encroaching on pay to win territory and would technically be locking something behind a 'paywall' that could otherwise be already accessible to others.

I understand, but it looks like everything in this game seems to be behind that paywall. To be fair they do give you 1 auxiliary, any other would be buying more because you want to. Similar to this concept. You already have a subclass, and you don't really "need" any more but here is an option. I think lot's of people would pay for this rather than multiple characters, but that might be more for meseta,gems grinding,mag etc. Still the option wouldn't hurt either side. I almost spent the money buying another subclass load out because I was not understanding the feature itself until I did hard research, considering information is kind of hard to find surprisingly.

Alot of stuff is behind a paywall, but there's nothing that would give players a serious advantage from a gameplay point of view, so something like that behind a paywall would be a terrible idea.

More than one subclass is just not going to happen anyway, be it free or behind a paywall. If anything SEGA tried to move in the opposite direction, the class introduced in Episode 5 can't have subclasses and can't be used as a subclass, when it was released it was far stronger than other classes, since SEGA intended to abandon the older classes, but due to fans backlash they had to buff the existing classes so they could keep up with that new class.

Newer classes released after that EP5 one still can't have subclasses, but they can be used as subclasses for the older classes.

On another note, being Hunter with access to healing/support technics without being subpar will be possible when the game reaches Episode 6, by using the Phantom class as a subclass (though you'll still be locked to Hunter weapons).

About elitist players and not running the meta classes, unfortunately some class combos just don't mix well together at all (for example, you're missing on a lot of damage boosting skills by using force as a subclass for hunter, which will be important in later content).

In the NA version the content you guys have access to is easy enough for that to not matter as much, so running niche class combos is fine, but as the NA version catches up with the JP version, either using niche class combos or having equipment that is not upgraded can result in failed urgent quests.

There's nothing wrong with playing around with those niche class combos when doing expeditions and such, but be mindful of players that want to clear content when running urgent quests in high difficulties (difficulties above Super Hard, which aren't on NA yet), urgent quests are only available for a limited amount of time after all.

@Aster-Larkspur said in Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?:

While your reasoning is uh... understandable. Putting this behind a paywall would be encroaching on pay to win territory and would technically be locking something behind a 'paywall' that could otherwise be already accessible to others.

At least PvP and Survival removes your class/sub-class.

In addition, we don't have Scion/Successor classes yet, so OP probably hasn't really had experience with the queen of solo'ing: Etoile. With Etoile as main, you can have a passive that reduces incoming damage you take up to 70%. (IE: You take 70% less damage.) The caveat is that you take no healing from other players, and can only heal from your own Etoile heal.

@coldreactive said in Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?:

With Etoile as main, you can have a passive that reduces incoming damage you take up to 70%. (IE: You take 70% less damage.) The caveat is that you take no healing from other players, and can only heal from your own Etoile heal.

A small correction, that skill is not a main class only skill, so those that use Etoile as a subclass also have access to that.

@Ezodagrom said in Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?:

@coldreactive said in Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?:

With Etoile as main, you can have a passive that reduces incoming damage you take up to 70%. (IE: You take 70% less damage.) The caveat is that you take no healing from other players, and can only heal from your own Etoile heal.

A small correction, that skill is not a main class only skill, so those that use Etoile as a subclass also have access to that.

Can you still use the Etoile AoE heal (Not Resta/etc.) with it as sub? Because self-Resta heals for 1 HP as well with that skill on.

@coldreactive said in Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?:

Can you still use the Etoile AoE heal (Not Resta/etc.) with it as sub? Because self-Resta heals for 1 HP as well with that skill on.

Nope, that skill is Etoile main only, but, healing items still work with either ET main or sub.

@Ezodagrom said in Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?:

@coldreactive said in Pay to add more Sub-sub classes?:

Can you still use the Etoile AoE heal (Not Resta/etc.) with it as sub? Because self-Resta heals for 1 HP as well with that skill on.

Nope, that skill is Etoile main only, but, healing items still work with either ET main or sub.

Guess I'll have to use a Mate Lovers Ring if I choose to use Etoile as sub for anything.

  1. Putting classes, subclasses and sub-sub-classes behind a paywall breeds P2W which is usually the death bell for any free to play MMO. So while I am all for more freedom, I do not believe the freedom should be only for people with the biggest credit cards.

  2. The benefit of class systems as a mechanic, without going into systems and game theory is to give players a well-defined role to focus on because most people need a measure of definition or hand-holding to feel special. This is a biiiiig psychological thing that I won't get into because it is practically the subject of a thesis paper and I'm not going to write a book here on a forum lol.

  3. There are very subtle builds that exist and weapons that exist that give you the ability to mix and match otherwise unconventional builds.

  4. Elitism won't go away by giving more options, instead, you will have number crunchers who will still come up with the "most optimal build." Making everyone the same, so to speak, will not stop people bound and determined to exploit a system for their own personal gain, benefit, or e-cred... Also, remember what Elitists think is their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness, they are a very small percentage and thus they can be ignored if you try hard enough.

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To clarify - I would LOVE more OBVIOUS (as opposed to spreadsheeting) mixing and matching of classes and skills. Or at the very least more Expert classes that give Hybrid game experiences simply because it gives players something to look forward to and to strive for. I would rather paywalls be kept for things such as non-detrimental cosmetics and rng manipulators.

Few counterpoints i would like to make to this . Some of these may of already been addressed

1 is the very obvious pay wall advantage this would give . What I would say PSO2 kind of pay to feature is atm is pay 2 get ahead , pay 2 look good and pay for convenice . I would not say it’s pay 2 win but having another subclass only available to people who pay would enter the realm of pay 2 win . 20% stats from subclass plus all those skills would be pay 2 win

2nd is while it may sound fun . Realistically all the classes would be part hunter . Because only having 1 subclass requires picking the defensive perks of hunter or a more offensive sub class to boost their damage but with 2 subclass all it would really become is sub class DPS boost and sub class 2 hunter . I don’t think it would really be as interesting as if they instead focused more on new classes

Balance is the 3rd reason . The more subclasses your allow at a time the more unbalanced the game would become for certain combos

Sigh, this guy is literally giving P2W advice. What a meme.

@Subject-Astra Whale mentality is a meme, and whales gonna whale.

@Ezodagrom I understand that, and while I was looking up on the many changes from the game cube games to this it was a lot harder to get accustomed to it. There was so much content that it kind of overwhelms at first. I understand this very well, this is not my first mmo, but usually balances give good and bad to everything, but while looking it up there where tons of responses where people where asking what was the best sub class to play with certain class and the responses where just horrible. (uninstall the game, play a different class, etc.) I get the game is different for everyone, but not allowing people to play their way is a bit disturbing. I don't fashion as much as everyone else, and I don't rp I just like playing the game. That doesn't mean everyone else who does that is wrong. My biggest reason is just for trying to recreate my hunter as best as possible. I love my Hunter, and I understand in difficulty we are far behind jp. I actually run braver subclass (I know most people consider braver as the main to take advantage of the skills/unit gear/etc/) All I am saying is that basic, full basic abilities where always able to be class specific. Honestly I dislike sub classes. The reason was even in dreamcast/gamecube I was able to run a hunter, all my hunter weapons that are now skill based locked behind sub classes, and I could run basic weapons like pistols and basic magic. they were not my strong points but having them was nice, especially resta and anti, and gafoil. But this game has "lambda/sigma/special" weapons that CAN be used by all classes with some limitations, and that is fine. I honestly do enjoy playing with the katana, and all my other hunter weapons. My hunter skill (1hp) is what keeps me long alive in those extremely hard where even people playing "meta" dying in (example how people are failing at luther fights). The game is made to work together, and this part of the community is hurtful to all other players, but that is to be expected with all games, and those playing as if this vr chat. I just think, if adding sub classes, a player could run the meta and still have their fun by adding the skills they want, obviously some skills are main class only so it wouldn't be too broken. As for the pay to win, an easy fix would be adding it in the drop table for extreme/super hard quest when available. Considering premium items are in some scratch rolls with very low chances and also considering how the rare system is laughably like zero where they drop easily. I still remember how crazy it was to get a red drop back in the day but that's a whole other story. If i w ant to play oldies I can, but I do enjoy this game, don't get me wrong. Thank you all again for being mature about this.

Jesus Christ, for real, learn to use the enter key on your keyboard.

Please.