bouncer opinions ?

Hello ! 🙂

So i'm curious as to what do you guys think about jet boots ?

My experience with them is weird :

edit : idk if I was on crack when I did my testing but it was obviously wrong, removed previous statements :x so far i'm really enjoying playing them and i'll try to compare their dps with same rarity / same upgrades knuckles and partisan.

Also I only tried soaring blades very quickly but so far they seemed very underwhelming :

I didn't try the PAs nearly enough, and yes they have HUGE potency and low PA costs, but they're so slow to execute that i'm not sure if they actually have decent dps ? what's your experience with these PAs ? maybe it gets insane with fanatic blade up ? do they still retain decent dps while fanatic blade is on cooldown ? also the fact that they take so long to execute makes them pretty bad imo, there are very few scenarios where you're gonna be able to pull them off entirely ( if no one is taking the mobs/boss agro for you ofc ) and while yes, you can cancel out of the PAs at any moment except for the very end of the animation, it's gonna hurt your dps immensely to do so.. if i'm not wrong it seems like as most PAs they have most of their potency allocated to the final half / quarter.

So yeah feel free to say what you think about either weapon !

i'm very much lacking hard numbers, but i noticed something similar with jet boots' PAs seeming underwhelming. this seems to be a theme for tech weapons, of course—the low photon cost and quick execution time might balance it out to some degree, but i'm not sure. of course, having a gap-closer in spinning gust helps a lot. jet boots also have jetsweep jolt to boost their overall dps and add some flavour to rotations. i've been doing gust→gale to charge it up quickly and then using it off cooldown to decent effect (and taking time to trigger barta blots, etc.).

presuming the whole jet boots kit is worth using, i feel it's got one of the most enjoyable rotations of any single weapon so far.

regarding the weapon action counter, it does a lot more damage than the jet boots step counter (something like 25-50% more damage?) but also seems to take longer, which fits with other weapon action counters like sword. the weapon action counter also works similar to twin daggers' in that the second attack will chase enemies vertically. it has very good travel distance, so i'd recommend getting it to augment your overall mobility. thrust drive could probably perform the same role, though! i personally also like having a weapon action counter because it can be used against airborne enemies or ones with tall hitboxes.

soaring blades' PAs feel good and have pretty nice cancel freedom with the step dodge. the step dodge seems to do decent damage—comparable to the jet boots' weapon action counter, though slightly less. they're also pretty versatile. the gap closer, roaring pheasant, acts a little strangely in that it "loads" damage during the first part: if it contacts an enemy at any point during the charge, it seems like all the previous hits that missed will strike the enemy at once. this means it's worth using at range despite how slow it is to close distance.

regarding the duration of the PAs, i'm pretty used to long ones thanks to playing partisan a lot, but it seems like there's a decent amount of flexibility there as well, since you can choose exactly when to "convert" an attack into its alternate form. destructive stork (what a name!) can be converted instantly to fill a small damage window fairly easily; rampaging harrier can be converted to effectively "cancel" it at any point with a decent burst of damage; and roaring pheasant can be used at range and converted near the end to maximise the amount of damage you get out of it.

there are two gripes i have, i suppose. soaring blades' weapon action doesn't seem to tie into the rest of its kit very much—it's only used for ranged DPS when you have fanatic blade up (and fanatic blade only affects the weapon action, as far as i know). otherwise, there's basically no point in using it, since it only adds a measly 5% pp gain to normals on enemies that have been hit by the projectiles.

the other issue is with multiweaponing, so it's a bit more subjective. as you've noted soaring blades' PAs are very cancellable, but they con only be cancelled with a step dodge. this makes it awkward to remain in the air with soaring blades, and trying to work in weapon action counters from e.g. jet boots makes the PAs feel a lot more awkward, since you cannot use those weapon actions to cancel out of them. in addition, to work fully, jet boots' weapon action counter requires you to bind their corresponding normal attack, which would be fine except that jet boots have a much worse step counter—you're basically giving up a good step counter for a working weapon action counter. in all other respects jet boots and soaring blades work pretty well as a multiweapon, though—the various features of jet boots are especially beneficial to a soaring blades-focused setup, while the reverse is perhaps less true.

edit: i should have mentioned--i just remembered that i'm still converting my augments to a balanced hybrid setup. right now my results are skewed by me having slightly higher melee damage.

Well the jet boots seem nice, except for the fact they screwed it up from what it was in PSO2. Now it's just a copy of the same play style, just like all weapons before it. I suppose i'll get one rank 4 weapon to 40 with level 4 potency to compare it to basically the same playstyle of wand techter to see which i prefer and then forget about the other one that's...less my playstyle? or whatever. There is no true individualism between the two that would make a difference. Boots have mutihit attacks for flavor i suppose, but that doesn't change how you play them. Yeah, i don't really give a damn about "max deeps", i'd rather play something that's fun. Meh, i guess it's getting pretty boring indeed.

Also, what's the point of boots that allow you to float above the ground if you still suck at staying in the air? They better drop flying enemies entirely in the future if they're unwilling to improve aerial combat.

There was at least one difference though. I don't really know how elemental downs work, but i didn't get a single one on jet boots while i was fighting a veteran, while i always got at least one on melee wand. Maybe it'll be different with a higher level/rank jet boots, but it seems strange considering the skills that supposedly improve downs effects.

EDIT: Now that i've tested it with better jet boots (PSO2 weapons), the elemental down activated at basically the exact same moment it activated on wand, while the boss died maybe a little faster since you'll have endless oppotunitues to attack with faster attack speed and less animation locks (Although i haven't tried the supposedly shortened locks on wand yet. Can't really compare those until i'm done leveling Bouncer). So if NGS jet boots improves it slightly more, and i don't see why they wouldn't, i guess Bouncer jet boots are a plain upgrade to Techter wand since you don't even need to keep shifta/deband active to do better (not to mention i was only level 15 on my Bouncer). Someone could say "shifta/deband helps in groups!" but so does faster elemental down if you have any Force/Techter/Bouncer with you, only benefit being that shifta/deband isn't limited to certain damage types.

EDIT2: I just remembered that PSO2 weapons get a potency bonus to down effects. If we assume that 20% is what you'd get for five more levels to Bouncer and getting a max upgraded NGS rank 4 weapon would add, i suppose all those class skills are just designed to benefit group play and be another meaningless "distiction" between classes that just raise them to the same level for solo play. I'd test soaring blades against Fighter with daggers (yes, i'd level a dagger to 40 with level 4 potential just to test it) to compare physical down if it was more intuitive to respec, instead of being yet another way for sega to milk money out of dumbasses. Instead of testing things until you're satisfied, you need to stop and think about how you're wasting your pathetically limited passes for nothing. This is also true for anything that requires a pass. Ugh...

Soaring blades? I'd try them if one of them would flipping drop already. Why you can buy only one type of primm weapon from those shops in the city is an arbitrary limitation. I'm not going to pay some greedy sod more than a thousand just to test how they work. EDIT: they still suck bollocks.

@starryeyedgiant thanks for your input, it was an interesting read !

okay so I did a bit more testing and yeah idk what i smoked ( i'm pretty tired ) but indeed normals don't out-dps PAs. yeah i think the 3 PAs were meant to be chained together, gust into gale into wave ( gale puts you at the perfect distance for wave and gust will gap close after wave ), I mean, with more testing i think the dps has gotta be okay overall because of how fast the PAs come out ( especially when you consider jetsweep bolt indeed, that thing is fire ! ) but it feels weird not to pop trash mobs with a PA, you actually have to do 2 x')

about barta blot and zonde clad is it worth it to use and spend skill points on ? i've never played with a tech class so far

aaaah nice, ty for the info i'm taking the counter right away then !

regarding soaring blades i didn't do any numbers testing yet so i don't really have a clue what i'm talking about, so i guess i'm gonna try to see if the go to "small dps window" ( destructive stork quick convert ) is decent dps wise ! dps on downed ennemies/big windows must be sick for sure, i'll still try and see the numbers !

thanks for the tip on roaring pheasant, that's odd but handy ! 😄

well fanatic blade only affecting the weapon action is a total bummer.

about the multiweapon thing, can't we just dodge in the air, side step counter and then immediately resume attacking ? if not maybe gust from jetboots ? gives a bit of verticality, or maybe just the good ol' wired lance for the weapon action ! x')

I was a jet boots bouncer main in base PSO2, and I didn't get very far with the NGS bouncer. But while I was initially sad about the lack of homing air dash like we had in base, it was immediately replaced with pure joy at the sight of the sheer speed of the normal attacks. Happy chemicals in monkey brain at work right there.

@Yggranya yeah I feel kinda the same about the comparison to pso2, that's a bit what I was saying in my original post ^^ maybe they'll add more PAs and mechanics later that give more identity / combos to the weapons ?

Well you really found boots to be bad at staying in the air ? I found em kind of great at that personally xD but then again I only really played knuckles, katana and sword so maybe that's not the best to compare to. but still, I mean the gapclosing potential from both gust and the skill that teleports you to the ennemy you've targeted by inputing a normal at the right timing after a technique is sick ! worth noting you don't need to charge the technique for that to work !

yeah the boots don't seem to do too much elemental damage, a bit at the start of the PA but that's it, don't know how worth it is to take the elemental down thing, but well it's just one point. might be more worth it if you actively use techniques ( more than just for buffing your boots PAs ) and use the barta-blot / zonde-clad. idk how much those skills are worth though, didn't play a tech class yet.

haha do some PSE vursts and you should get your hands on a pair of blades ! x) gl ^^

@The-Merfox haha ! you've got a homing dash, well homing teleport actually if you use the skill that lets you press the normal attack button at the right timing after technique ( uncharged technique works too ) 😛 yeah the normals come out fast, are very quick to cancel and seem to do a huge dps for normals. 😛

I find it a bit iffy. Jet boots anyway.

Since there's no more perfect attacks, I'm used to hold normal attacks now. And with Jet boots acceleration, that's, uh... I mean, if you get to the end, it's intensely satisfying seeing that huge number. But that is probably best reserved for when the boss is downed, so I'd honestly rather have it as an additional skill that I can bind to a different mouse button and keep the normal basic attack function. As it is, using basic attacks not aimed at getting acceleration up gets a bit too mashy for my tastes.

Beyond that, I don't have much gripes yet. Might add some later when I get more familiar with it.

@Zoe haha yeah i've definitely been struggling with that aswell ! :') yeah the jet intensity skill is good on downed bosses but that's it, and even then the timing is pretty close depending on the bosses ( different bosses have different down durations right ? ), gotta get to their weakspot fast but with a bit of practice I think it's gonna be easily done, i mean, jet boots bouncer has a teleportation skill after all, that alone should resolve all issues timing related x')

@Remik side step countering in the air works, but you always lose some height! so if you're trying to hit a weakspot (e.g. daityl, oruq, even varas) you'll often miss with the counter and have to hit the ground to regain your lost height! most weapon actions stop your fall, while sidestepping doesn't, so i'll always personally take a weapon action counter if i can get it.

also i wanted to make a quick correction—the weapon action counter on jet boots doesn't chase vertically, only horizontally, so it's not useful for pursuing tall/airborne enemies.

jet intensity sticks to enemies as long as they don't go up or down, so i feel there's a couple of situations where you could make it work outside of downs, e.g. on varas' tornado, or when you're not being targeted by a boss. i'd definitely like to see some numbers to determine whether that's worth the risk.

regarding airborne performance, bouncer and braver both share the... interesting property of not having any slow fall skills. this is normally fine but especially in bouncer's case, charging a technique will make you drop like a stone. i also feel like the fast pace of jet boots' airborne attacks and its (relatively) complex rotation means you need to think relatively fast to stay in the air and on enemies (but then, i'm coming from the slowest ngs class).

edit: turns out i was mistaken about slow-fall! it took me a while to notice but once you charge a technique you do actually stay in the air.

mhmhmh interesting ! I gotta admit i don't bother with weakspots on flying bosses as long as they're not down, although with the jet boots teleport skill i might now 😛 also since you seem to know your stuff, i've read that barta blot and zonde clad stacks actually build up with the elemental damage from charged boots PAs ? it's insane ! is it true ? btw if yes, does it also charge with techter elemental charged wand ticks ? didn't expect that since i've read it doesn't build up with talis atlernative modes but i'm defo gonna take it ( maybe on force for subclassing with bouncer ? ) if it actually builds up with the elementally charged PAs ! thanks for your help man 😄

I haven't had a chance to try out SB yet but as I completely ignored them when I played bouncer in classic I'd only have ET SB to compare and I don't think that would be an accurate comparison anyway.

Far as jet boots go I was a bit disappointed that JB's lost a lot of AoE as well as it's hyper mobility. Yes you can technically sling shot back and forth via the held PA that knocks you back and then tapping they PA that flips you forward. You also can dash in after a tech. But neither of these really fill the void of that mobility. I'm assuming we lost said mobility because they don't want people to just completely forgo photon dash and what not, but it's still sad.

That being said JB's feel a lot better as an actual weapon this time around, especially the normals. Some people find the 4th attack popping an enemy up a bit annoying but I actually enjoy doing it. I still think it's a bit weird that the optimal damage path for JB on a downstate is to just hold normal into your gauge attack after that final meaty kick. But it does feel satisfying. Also the fact that I can just mash weapon action to I frame through all of bosses AoE's like it's nothing makes the dopamine drop pretty heavily.

In a way I guess i'm pretty satisfied with how JB's turned out and the format of NGS classes in general. Because now i'm able to do JB's and TMG's and not actually play poorly. It was a combo I wanted to do way back when I was looking into classic before Global ever existed. But I found out that it wasn't viable. It seems to be in NGS. Even if it ends up not being viable somehow I can always just go kunckles and jet boots as my back up thematic set for my character.

TLDR I kinda miss some of classic JB's antics. But I enjoy NGS JB's for different reasons and i'm fine with that.

@Knight-Raime yeah I totally get you, even though i don't have a huge experience in pso2 some weapons felt more complete and you actually were pushed to vary/mix up your PAs, was a bit less button mashy in the end. still I also think ngs is an improvement over pso2 in many, many ways. maybe with time the weapon kits and mechanics will be a lil bit more varied, the game just released after all.

JBs / TMGs ? well that's interesting ! I also feel like JBs are quite weak at mobbing so a multiweapon with some good AoE might be nice indeed, but I think i'm gonna go with talis. first of all because they both scale off tech power so you can focus on a single stat on your armor units and get the full benefit with both weapons, the talis weapon action would be welcome while we're zooming left and right, a bit of additional dps and some more much needed PP, and ofc because the talis has access to decent AoE with the spread shot thingy ? at least that's what i've heard, never played talis yet. Also I think force is a good subclass for JBs bouncer, PP is quickly spent with these x')

I still love jet boots but I'm very disappointed not to have a PA as a grand wave.

It's very useful in UQ (whether it's mine or other, but especially in this one) for me it was part of the strength of that class and you could really feel mobile

i always hated soarings blades (I never managed to play correctly with them lol) and moreover, there is no dodge.

@Piazzolla yeah defo, grand wave was handy and it looked amazing ! but well with 3 PAs per weapon and the mobility tools we already have i wouldn't trade any of the PAs we've got for grand wave x') oh wait.. maybe fierce wave, we'd lose a little bit of dps but well, that would probs be worth it since the fierce wave dps is very unreliable.. actually i'm not even sure it's worth using on any enemy with a weakspot, maybe someone will do some accurate testing to be sure..

but well, so far the weapon feels very mobile to me, the gapclosing from spinning gust is nothing to scoff at ( btw everyone seems to do it uncharged, the charged damage is actually very noticeable, the damage is almost on par with charged violent gale and it comes out a bit faster so I guess the dps is about the same, i think it's worth to charge it ) and yeah the thrust drive teleportation has a nice range.. although I agree it can be a bit tricky to use instantly with a controller. but then again, I only really played with knuckles, a bit of sword and a bit of katana, so defo not the most mobile options. ( knuckles have some mobility but it's slower than JBs )