So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.

EDIT: I didn't realize this was such a long post, to the TL;DR is:

GM's should not "reserve the right" to go through an entire players chat history when they receive a report flagging a user for behavior another player found offensive, since it opens the door to a GM stumbling on an instance they take out of context and hit a player with an account action from something the player did earlier in their accounts history rather than when they received said report. That policy needs to change and the report feature needs to include options to report the day/time the player witnessed said infraction as well as a mandatory explanation of the incident so that GM's are provided with the context for which user was reported for and therefore know exactly what to look for. A user's chat logs should only be thoroughly reviewed after receiving multiple flags on said user over a period to determine the user's pattern of behavior to justify excessively forceful action on the account.

First, let me state, I really, really do not intend to cause problems here. I do believe in asking pointed questions. I believe in being respectful, for the most part, and when I see something wrong or something that I believe is questionable, I call it out. The original thread got locked, but most of us have seen by now that there were two tickets sent regarding ERP. One, from Prancing Rain, and the other, from myself. Here is my ticket, in case you have not seen it:

bannedforERP.png

What I did not include in the original screenshot at the time was my follow up question, because again, I think we are all aware that there are a select few set of trolls that are spinning a lot of fear in the community, and as much as we may not want to admit it, we all have been set on this path in questioning SEGA, the moderators, and the GM's because of that narrative, myself included. My follow up question, and subsequent answer TO that question is below:

BannedForERPFollowUp.png

For those that may not be aware, I made a few points in the topic here about how I felt that the report function in game could be potentially easily abused since when a player chooses to report someone, they have a simple drop down menu and the option to provide a brief description. And I wager that the majority of players who do report another, just simply choose from the options listed on the drop down that best fit the circumstance, and since GM's are not given the context on what caused that player to get flagged to begin with, they would in turn search through all of the reported players logs, which again, if someone told a nsfw joke that happened to offend someone in general chat, but ERP'd a few days earlier, the GM, if scrolling through the chat logs date by date, would encounter the ERP session first and hit the user with an account action, before stumbling upon the NSFW joke that caused them to be flagged to begin with.

I strongly, strongly do not agree that GM's "reserve the right" to go through an entire player's chat logs from when they started playing the game when it first released up to now, if they receive a report flagging that user for something a week ago.

GM's should not "reserve the right" to snoop through a year and a half worth of logs because maybe that user had a bad day and was venting in DM's, maybe they were saying inappropriate things in alliance chat that their alliance wasn't bothered by, who knows. What I can conclude is that the reason for the incredibly vague e-mails sent from support to users that have faced account action is because the GM's are perhaps stumbling onto instances where users might have done something to break ToS earlier in their accounts lifespan, rather than an instance more recent. Why would a GM admit "Oh, we found something you did wrong in 2020 and we are now just getting around to punishing you for it". That is a bad look, and SEGA and the GM's know it.

I am incredibly disappointed with this response, I am incredibly disappointed with this policy of GM's "reserving the right" to go through a player's entire chat history, because that leaves it open to GM's to stumble across something and take it out of context and hit the user with an action. Plus, it honestly is a waste of time and resources. Why would you go through all of the player's log when you should just focus on the chat logs the day the report was made on the user? Because, at least in my eyes, the user clearly did something on that day to get flagged in the system to begin with, so that is where the focus should be, not on logs from a year past.

SEGA and the mods want to be transparent with us. Well, I must ask, beg actually, for you to come forward and address this with the community. This is a real concern that many of us have, and the answer given above does not help alleviate any of the concerns we in the community have in regards to this whole situation. Change this policy and make it mandatory for a player reporting another to provide the date/time they witnessed the infraction as well as mandatory for them to provide a brief description on the reason for the report to begin with. These changes would restore a lot of faith to the community.

Why would you flag yourself like this? Do you want to taste the truth behind the "doomposting" yourself?

Doesn't matter. When the time comes, feel free to join us.

You're not alone, we're not alone.

@DF全知 said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

Why would you flag yourself like this? Do you want to taste the truth behind the "doomposting" yourself?

Doesn't matter. When the time comes, feel free to join us.

You're not alone, we're not alone.

A wild DF Zenchi has appeared

@Riesz said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

I don't get the mentality that someone shouldn't be punished for something they did in the past just because they weren't caught until now. It would make more sense if the argument was that such a rule didn't exist until now, so they shouldn't be punished for doing so when the rule did not exist.

But if it's the case that it was always against the rules, then they deserve the punishment still, when it happened shouldn't matter in that case. Otherwise they'll likely keep doing it until they actually do get punished for it.

They haven't been properly punishing people, and now they punish people with this method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-PtEJEaqY

Mutes, temporal bans should exist. Correctly warning people, correctly informing people of what their mistakes were is important to construct a better community.

Silently punishing people with a permanent ban only causes fear and higher toxicity.

@HarmlessSyan said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

@DF全知 said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

Why would you flag yourself like this? Do you want to taste the truth behind the "doomposting" yourself?

Doesn't matter. When the time comes, feel free to join us.

You're not alone, we're not alone.

A wild DF Zenchi has appeared

They'll have to rangeban the world to stop us all.

@Riesz said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

be punished for something they did in the past just because they weren't caught until now. It would make more sense if the argument was that such a rule didn't exist until now, so they shouldn't be punished for doing so when the rule did not exist. But if it's the case that it was always against the rules, then they deserve the punishment still, when it happened shouldn't matter in that case.

You are completely missing the point, so let me try again.

If you, let's say, happened to talk smack in your alliance a year ago, or in DM's with friend's, like you and a close friend cracking inappropriate jokes with one another, and someone today flags your account for something you did. The GM reserving the right to go through all your logs, could find your inappropriate jokes from a year prior and take action on your account, nevermind that they received the report today. Not to mention that since you had been flagged, even if it was your first time getting flagged by a user, them going through your entire history could in turn, show multiple instances of you having broken some rules in the ToS because you used colorful language or whatever and because they see those multiple instances, that could quickly escalate from just a warning to a permanent ban. I'm not trying to say that this is what occurs, or is currently occurring by any means, but there is a possibility for it, and that is a potential scenario that deserves clarification.

Otherwise they'll likely keep doing it until they actually do get punished for it.

Like I said, GM's should only reserve their right to go through all your chat logs if they have received multiple flags on a user within a given period to determine the pattern of behavior that is causing multiple flaggings to begin with and act accordingly.

Honestly, we have all had rough days where we may come on and vent a bit to our friends or our alliance. We do so because we are comfortable with those individuals. This isn't as black and white as you want to make it out to be, sorry.

@DF全知 said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

Why would you flag yourself like this? Do you want to taste the truth behind the "doomposting" yourself?

Doesn't matter. When the time comes, feel free to join us.

You're not alone, we're not alone.

I "flag" myself because I have a legitimate question. This isn't about "doomposting", I don't want to cause a stir, I want answers and clarification. Nothing more, nothing less. SEGA says they want to be open and transparent, well, I would like clarification on this for myself, and the rest of the community that may be interested.

And while I appreciate the invitation, I respectfully decline.

EDIT: Wow, they really are spawn killing Zenchi's, that was absolutely epic.

Just be nice to people its that easy.

@A-Silver-King said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

Just be nice to people its that easy.

And don't ERP in DM's because if you get flagged for whatever reason, if a GM happens to see that, welp, you're in trouble.

@Riesz

What about a case where it was against the rules, but the punishment was changed? The recent bans given out have been anything from warnings to permabans. It has not been made clear yet what in particular determines the severity of a ban, be it what rule was broken or how many times. But what we do know is that up until now moderator action has (rather infamously) been almost entirely just 3-day chat bans. I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to assume that at least a few people have been punished more severely than they would have if they were caught when they actually broke the rules.

Should a player be hit with a ban more severe than 3 days for something they did that was only punished with a 3 day ban at the time they did it if the punishment was updated even way after the broke the rule?

Also, I do not think OP is making the argument that people shouldn't be punished for breaking rules in the past (although personally I think there should be some leniency for minor cases that are well in the past, of course assuming they weren't repeated). The issue is that it appears that the mods are actively searching for any rule a player may have broken, at any time, when their account is flagged. This presents the obvious issue that different people interpret toxicity and harassment differently, especially between alliances and friends, and that a GM may or may not just ctrl+f your chatlog and go "wow, that was a mean thing to say" when it may have just been banter between friends - when that wasn't even what you were reported for (for a reason). Of course, this is not the only bannable offense (and as some people argue, not the only offense that is unfair to punish this way), and some things GMs may find this way do deserve to be acted upon, but the possibility and concern exists nonetheless.

@Riesz I encourage you to speak your mind. I do feel this is a topic worth discussing and if you can provide points that I have yet to consider, I am all for hearing it.

@Riesz said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

I don't get the mentality that someone shouldn't be punished for something they did in the past just because they weren't caught until now. It would make more sense if the argument was that such a rule didn't exist until now, so they shouldn't be punished for doing so when the rule did not exist.

But if it's the case that it was always against the rules, then they deserve the punishment still, when it happened shouldn't matter in that case. Otherwise they'll likely keep doing it until they actually do get punished for it.

The problem with this mentality is, if they aren't bothering anyone with the ERP in private, and it isn't harming the community, then it shouldn't be subject to any action taken against the account period. Only in cases of harassment should the private chat be considered, and even then you need to see where such harassment existed. Same goes for any type of conversation, or subject matter. It's not hard to figure out that doing otherwise, would result in cases where the community at large, just doesn't feel safe talking ever, and that's exactly what's happening in game right now. Compared to how it was before, hardly anyone is talking openly in game right now. And at that point, you might as well remove chat functionality altogether.

Iv'e thought about this and its actually a braindead policy that seems like was put in place because of the streamer. I'm pretty sure some C-level told them to clean it up and get it done however.

Whats to say someone didnt get chat muted/temp banned before and then false reported now. Now the gm looks through there chat history and perma bans them for something they were already punished for.

That with them giving proof will likely result in people who got temp banned getting perma banned if one gm finds something more offensive or a policy has changed since the temp ban. Without them giving the real reason you were banned its pretty much the decision of some support staff that may be having a bad day. I'm pretty sure they don't give the reason so you dont fight the ban.

As far as iv'e seen no one has appealed a ban.

@A-Silver-King said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

Iv'e thought about this and its actually a braindead policy that seems like was put in place because of the streamer. I'm pretty sure some C-level told them to clean it up and get it done however.

Whats to say someone didnt get chat muted/temp banned before and then false reported now. Now the gm looks through there chat history and perma bans them for something they were already punished for.

That with them giving proof will likely result in people who got temp banned getting perma banned if one gm finds something more offensive or a policy has changed since the temp ban. Without them giving the real reason you were banned its pretty much the decision of some support staff that may be having a bad day. I'm pretty sure they don't give the reason so you dont fight the ban.

As far as iv'e seen no one has appealed a ban.

This is why companies shouldnt have kneejerk reactions to stuff like that. Its best to be anti social in ngs rn and thats bad, ESPECIALLY for a dying mmo

I have never heard of an mmo banning people for whispering stuff to each other when they were just friends and did not report each other. This is such an overreaction considering they didn't do jack shit against all the degeneracy in og pso2, the cheating or the abuse of xbox live rewards (up until oktober? when they simple deactivated it lol). We China now.

Also, why would you ban the last remaining players in a dying game? Face it the game attracts degenerates and is targeted towards weak minded people and people who need an dress up avatar game to cope with life. I have talked to far too many people to know which kind of person the average pso2 player is.

@A-Silver-King said in So, in regards to the recent revelations about getting banned for ERP.:

Just be nice to people its that easy.

The absolute problem with this is that "being nice" in someone's eyes could also be considered being toxic to someone else. FFXIV has a subreddit dedicated crap like this, where a ton of posts are made about people give advice "without consent" to new players and are called toxic.

It's not about being nice. Eventually you learn to shut up, and never talk in game because that's the only way to not get banned.