My Thoughts on the Recent Bans and the Tweet About Toxic Behaiviour

Because people seem to misunderstand my stance about these topics, I thought I should make a post that's formatted to show exactly what my thought process is in the form of a Q&A (though not every question was actually asked, I'll answer them anyway).



  • Do you think 1600 recent bans were unfair/unjust?
    I can't really say for certain whether every single ban was just or not. I don't know what reason each and every person was banned for. I have seen legitimate toxicity in this community, so I find it very possible that there were that many people that were actually really toxic (and I mean what most people would consider toxic, not like things 10 people out of thousands would find offensive), and got banned because of it.

  • Do you believe the people that said they were banned for no reason, and/or have no knowledge as to what exactly they were banned for?
    This is a tricky subject, because it is not uncommon for people to do something terrible, and beg to be be unbanned, pretending they have no idea why they were banned. The only people I have saw mentioning they were banned for no reason so far haven't helped their case by how they reacted, in fact they made it worse. But I don't really know how many other people are claiming that, I don't check the PSO2 Reddit (though I have posted alliance recruitment messages there, I don't read anything there), and don't use the official NGS discord because of all the chaos those tend to bring.

    So basically I haven't seen every instance where people claimed to be banned for no reason, and don't know whether to believe the people who say they were or not.


  • Do you believe all 1600 people deserved their ban?
    I know this is a similar question that I asked myself before, but this is more about the number than about if I think the bans were fair or not. Anyway, people keep making a big deal about this number because of the percentage of the current players they see on Steam Charts this would make up. While it sounds crazy that big of a percentage of people were being toxic enough to be banned, it's not really that big of a number. If there were millions of players 1600 people being banned wouldn't sound like much.

    I personally apply the same logic for this number in terms of games with that many players though. Do I believe 1600 players could have broken rules and get banned in any given timeframe for any game? Yes I do believe that that is in fact possible, whether that actually happened here or not I can't say for certain.


  • Do you believe 1600 players is really as big of a percentage of the population as people believe based on Steam Charts?
    I posted this question because I think people aren't seeing the full picture of the data, and don't seem to realize the Steam Charts don't count every single player in PSO2 New Genesis. This count is only recording the number of players playing through the Steam Launcher, in truth we don't know the exact player count, We saw there were around 4-4.5k players in the game on Steam charts, but that doesn't mean 1600 is 1/4th of the playerbase in the entire Global PSO2 NGS. For all we know each platform has 4.5k players, so lets see what that number would be if that was in fact the case.

    There's Steam which is the ~4k we know, then there's the Microsoft Store which if that was also 4k would be 8k players, then if there's 4k X-Box players, that would be 12k players, then if the Epic Game Store also had 4k players, it would then be a total of 16k players. 1600 players would be 10% of the playerbase then, which sounds much less crazy than the 40% that 1600 players is of 4000. Now I know these are completely made up numbers, but the point is people are saying that's such a big chunk of players, when for all we know it could only be 10-15% of the players.


  • Do you think SEGA should be more clear about why people were banned?
    It definitely would be good if the support team was more clear with people that were banned what exactly they were banned for (and also in general, they're pretty vague for most ticket discussions), giving more detail than simply saying they were banned for inappropriate language, they should put more detail into their ban appeal responses.

    Now, they may not be allowed to repeat what the offender actually said back to them, but they can be more specific about it, detailing why it's considered inappropriate language at the very least. Or if it was simply because they exploited the chat filter system, then they could also state that is the reason they were banned. Just stating inappropriate language and offering no further detail is not enough though.


  • What do you think the toxicity that SEGA refers to means?
    I can only hope what they mean is what a majority of people would consider

  • How do you feel about NGS' Manners Article for the Japanese version of the game?
    I think the way they seem to make it sound like not following the manners here: https://pso2.jp/players/support/rules/manners/playmanners/ was a mistake that I hope not to see implemented in the Global version as well. What is being asked there is extremely authoritarian, restrictive, and unreasonable. I don't want to have to either be extremely over the top friendly to every single person I see in the game or not be allowed to say anything.

    You can't expect people to be fine with worrying that if they talk to their friend in the lobby that anything they say, like say an inside joke, might get them in trouble because someone else didn't understand it and took it as an insult.


Anyway my stance is basically that I don't know whether all, or any of these players were truly banned for no reason as they claim, or that even if they were banned for a reason was that reason justified. I've seen many people be unbanned from other games with terrible excuses because of random people supporting them, or because of their popularity in the community before, so I'm kinda biased, but we truly do not know whether these people were really as innocent as they claim.

I hope that all the 1600 people that got banned actually deserved it, but I don't know whether they did or not, I won't just take their word for it though.

rolls eyes Really?

all 1600 that got hit with action deserved it. all those in that pool that got permanently banned deserved it.

Sega keep doing what your doing.

Oh good, finally someone with a nuanced take. Thank you.

There's a lot of folks going around saying they had "lewd symbol art but not like, too lewd, I forgot I even had it."

"I only chair danced in a bikini in front of a gm!! I did nothing wrong!"

I just don't think these people did just that to get banned.

@Kofi9867 No, they didn't, but they sure like to spin a web of lies to fuel their narrative and cause a stir within the community.

Ya know, for the past few days now I was wondering why some of the troll threads got deleted, but not removed from the forums. The ones with Zenchi and his friends/alts. The mods have typically always cleaned up after their mess, but now they are just putting it to the side.

I thought a little bit more about it, and if they are associated with the same 4chan trolls that are rumored to have bombed the streamers, their actions actually caused a financial loss for SEGA. SEGA did after all pay those streamers, and despite doing so, have no videos to present because of all the disgusting spam they received.

Now, if this was just a one time thing, I'm sure any respectable company would write it off, and make the changes we are seeing now with the chat to prevent future issues. But if that same group that caused you financial loss continues behaving in a way that is causing harm to the community, enough for the community to doubt your actions, and possibly cause further financial loss because of the doubt and harm they have caused to your companies reputation, well then. We open the door for legal avenues now, wouldn't we?

The fact that those threads are still up, locked for us, but open to mods and the other powers that be at SEGA has me thinking that SEGA is rightfully pissed, and they are collecting and documenting everything these trolls do. All the accounts they create, all the trouble the start, because honestly it is always the same argument with these guys, so collecting evidence on their behavior isn't difficult. SEGA, like any other big company, has an army of lawyers ready to go at a moments notice, and I would absolutely love to see that army start being given marching orders.

@Berserk-Nevi Honestly, My dear- It seems to me that the most simple remedy would just be an IP ban, Attached to that would be Pre-amble that states any further action to continue ( Via using a VPN, or any other means of by-pass), Would then result in possible litigation Period. When there are roaches present, You simply just don't kill one, you make sure that the hive/ nest is completely oblitorated so that they do not come back.

However, It's been more of the same- Those that were repremanded now are asking/demanding some sort of warning system to be implemented, In addition to claims/ Comparisons that are trying to find some sort of justification. The system is broken, No doubt, The question is if this system will see some sort of revision?

@Berserk-Nevi I agree with you and @Sakesubaki

That said, that new account up there is sus as Hell. That hot take that 100% of everyone that got banned deserved it,is a bad look for the community. Could be of of the trolls, given they set this whole thing up to oust ERP players, which caused a massive part of this debacle in the first place. False flagging accounts to create probable cause, that targeted an investigation by a GM, would result in the very private conversations chat logs being seen, and these players being banned. All the trolls would have to do is keep playing on that, and pretend to be apart of the affected group to add fuel to the fire, while also creating alt accounts in full support of loss of privacy, which makes at least a part of the community being fostered by SEGA look bad, which would further result in a bad look for SEGA. Leave it to trolls to be the only ones willing to read ToS, and go out of their way to orchestrate something this elaborate. Seems like a personal vendetta to me.

Dreamweaver has stated that the threads staying up is because of how the forums is set up not because they want them to be.

@A-Silver-King No he didn't.

@Sakesubaki I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that is the case. They are probably gathering all the evidence on their side to also justify going the next step and issuing IP bans because, who knows, maybe it is a policy they have to follow since it tends to be a more "severe" form of ban on top of smacking them with some scary real world consequences that I am sure their parents would not appreciate.

@Anarchy-Marine It has been debacle after debacle. When the fire starts being put out on one topic, the start with the next one, and then when that starts going out, the next, and on and on and on. They are constantly shifting the points of focus, but they are still promoting the same message. It's annoying.

@Berserk-Nevi said in My Thoughts on the Recent Bans and the Tweet About Toxic Behaiviour:

@A-Silver-King No he didn't.

@Sakesubaki I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that is the case. They are probably gathering all the evidence on their side to also justify going the next step and issuing IP bans because, who knows, maybe it is a policy they have to follow since it tends to be a more "severe" form of ban on top of smacking them with some scary real world consequences that I am sure their parents would not appreciate.

@Anarchy-Marine It has been debacle after debacle. When the fire starts being put out on one topic, the start with the next one, and then when that starts going out, the next, and on and on and on. They are constantly shifting the points of focus, but they are still promoting the same message. It's annoying.

Its likely why, when we began pointing out everything they were doing, that they began asking for the forums to be shut down. They have eyes on here, and are obssively watching everything that happens here. These people clearly need to see a psychologist, and get some help. Or at the very least get a life outside of the internet.

@A-Silver-King I stand corrected, thanks. BUT, there was a troll thread that was started about a streamer that got straight nuked into oblivion, and that was after all these threads started getting deleted, but not removed. Not to mention the korean spam that has occurred after those threads.

There is one set of threads though the remain from the korean spammer, so again, if one of their requirements for issuing an IP ban is to present evidence for doing so, saving that thread, as well as the others, makes more sense.

Not really getting involved with the general subject, but...

@Riesz said in My Thoughts on the Recent Bans and the Tweet About Toxic Behaiviour:

There's Steam which is the ~4k we know, then there's the Microsoft Store which if that was also 4k would be 8k players, then if there's 4k X-Box players, that would be 12k players, then if the Epic Game Store also had 4k players, it would then be a total of 16k players. 1600 players would be 10% of the playerbase then

That's still assuming that the peak daily player count happens at a time when every single person who plays New Genesis at all is online at the same time.

Obviously this is not the case, and given the volume of people saying they just log in for 20 minutes to knock out their dailies before moving on to games with content, it's probably far from the case.

Realistically you need to take the average (not peak) daily concurrent player count (which lately has been about 3k) and adjust it for (a) the number of users on other platforms (the last estimate we got was that Steam was 70% of the total on Global, so add about 43%) and (b) the average playtime of all unique daily players (which is pure guesswork, but multiply the average concurrent number by 24 divided by the number of hours you think it is). That'll get you an estimate for the total unique daily players which is probably a bit higher than 16k.

Which still won't be everyone because some players play every week but not every day. But it's way more useful than a rash assumption about peak daily concurrent numbers.