Character creation is great, but could still be improved greatly with more control over facial structure.

So I was talking with another user about facial features and structure overall. And after much debate, I've come to agree that our options could be a bit more detailed, and overall better with a truly unique look. What we have now for the New type faces is great, however it could still be better.

If the New Type faces had cheekbone, jaw depth, and eye depth sliders, players would likely feel more comfortable leaving behind the old faces as new cosmetics come in, more so then they are now. The old face types seem to have a better face structure as far as cheekbones, and jaw depth go, and the eyes on both the old type, and new type can look odd at times, depending upon how a user made the rest of their face, from the side profile with almost no depth. Like Doll eyes.

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Shared by the other user in question through Discord, of their character, and posted here with permission.

Essentially the idea here is to simply do what many other games already do with their character creation systems in regards to face. NGS has the body area down for the most part, and is out doing many other companies in this regard, but the face still needs to catch up in my opinion. They otherwise would be near perfect systems.Hopefully the idea gets somewhere, and other players like it.

Yeah, agree. The faces in NGS are very hard to get right. Almost everything on the face needs more options. My main 3 concerns are as follows.

The mouth looks super weird. You can adjust this through expression but they don't let you close the mouth gap without completely altering what you've already changed. So you can make the mouth look nice but you'll be left with a open character mouth all the time.

The eyes aren't hard to get right from the front, but from different angles it can look terrible compared to base PSO2. This is probably due to the lack of customization around the eye area.

The nose also needs more options. I liked how the nose looked way more in base PSO2.

Yes PLEASE to more options for depth in general. The NGS faces (T2 and snipt faces in particular) look horrifyingly flat when viewed at an angle, and tbh that pushes me away from the new face variants entirely. They just sit firmly in uncanny valley imo, and nothing short of additional sliders for depth, or a new face variant that addresses the lack of depth, will convince me to make the switch.

It's a shame, because I want to make the switch to NGS faces, but doing so currently feels like a downgrade to me despite all the extra features. (And due to that, sega isn't getting my money for NGS eyes/makeup options....)

I think it's fine as it is, since i only want a face that doesn't look like crap, and i'll just copy a good enough face for any possible future character i might make. I hate screwing around with sliders. So, as long as it doesn't force me to do it all over again...

Also, the first thing i did was suffer through playing with the sliders to get the new and improved NGS body/face, since they were a massive improvement. Whatever you see as better is most likely just your attachment to the old, in other words nostalgia. But hey, opinions and all that.

@Yggranya said in Character creation is great, but could still be improved greatly with more control over facial structure.:

I think it's fine as it is, since i only want a face that doesn't look like crap, and i'll just copy a good enough face for any possible future character i might make. I hate screwing around with sliders. So, as long as it doesn't force me to do it all over again...

Also, the first thing i did was suffer through playing with the sliders to get the new and improved NGS body/face, since they were a massive improvement. Whatever you see as better is most likely just your attachment to the old, in other words nostalgia. But hey, opinions and all that.

NGS character creation is awful . There are a lot LESS options compared to the original PSO2 and the sliders / models weren't improved all that much . New faces look like crap compared to the old ones and that's not nostalgia talking , it's being objective ( you don't mix manga and realistic noses / lips ) ; you still can't mess with some proportion without also having to alter others and sometimes the model will start looking weird ( want a bigger bum ? Good , you must increase your waist size...even if you don't want to , and with your waist size your belly size also gets increased for no apparent reason thus potentially making your character look as if they are about 10 kg overweight ) . Head creation is just painful to work with , the sliders are terrible and it's hard to make any NGS face look good both cause of them and cause of the lack of variety .

@Elyann And as i said, i hate screwing with sliders. The fact i did it anyway proves that i think it's better than what PSO2 had. "Objective"? Not at all, it's totally subjective.

Also, increasing sizes works fine as long as you don't go to ludicrous levels with them. Sure it could be better, but all those where you increase one things size causes another things size to increase were 10 times worse in PSO2.

@Elyann In regards to your ass, the slider making it bigger, also effecting the slope of your stomach is annoying, but I guess is supposed to be more realistic (?) ..even though it lowers finer detailing that a player could do. Even the way the waist slider works is kind of annoying. I'd like to be able to make the waist more curvy, but not at the expense of making my female characters pelvis super bony, or look emaciated. The only way to fix that at current is to move the hips up, and shorten the torso, but then I have to widen the shoulders to keep them in proportionate alignment with the hips, which then forces me to increase head size to prevent the shoulders looking like a man's. This throws off my face, etc. It's a domino effect, and keeping the body In proper balance is a challenge, but it's doable. The body sliders are workable, but it will take most players hours to figure out how to get the form they were going for

The face on the other hand, is a much larger challenge given that there are no depth sliders, and it just results in all side profiles of every in game human character, looking mostly the same. Which is why I made the thread in the first place. The body slider, while it may be annoying to work with at times, is far more intuitive to work with than the face. The face is so easy to mess up, and so hard to get right.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Character creation is great, but could still be improved greatly with more control over facial structure.:

In regards to your ass, the slider making it bigger, also effecting the slope of your stomach is annoying, but I guess is supposed to be more realistic (?) ..even though it lowers finer detailing that a player could do.

Oh yeah, there's that. Still, i remember in ESO where there was a slider to increase tail size for Argonians (although it might not have been specifically for that?) that also increased ass size, which i suppose was a necessary evil, but the unfortunate thing about it was the massive triangular shape that seemed like a parasite trying to burst out of your stomach. Then it proceeded to ruin all armors to top it all off.

I'll admit it's pretty dumb, but when compared with that, it's not so bad. Perhaps NGS upgraded some things, but for whatever reason some things are combined on the skeletons in a really old manner.

Still, ass and face are not self-similar, so that's enough of that. Although i wonder if ESO has a slider specifically for tails now, since i played it years ago.

Would you want something similar to What Dlack Desert Online has

@Drakaina said in Character creation is great, but could still be improved greatly with more control over facial structure.:

Would you want something similar to What Dlack Desert Online has

Similar, but better, because even that was a bit clunky when I first used it. I want what we have now, but with new options added on top of that, that would allow control over depth, as stated on the first page. Black desert got depth right from side profiles, but had an issue with butter face from the front, the exact opposite issue that NGS has.

@Yggranya said in Character creation is great, but could still be improved greatly with more control over facial structure.:

@Anarchy-Marine said in Character creation is great, but could still be improved greatly with more control over facial structure.:

In regards to your ass, the slider making it bigger, also effecting the slope of your stomach is annoying, but I guess is supposed to be more realistic (?) ..even though it lowers finer detailing that a player could do.

Oh yeah, there's that. Still, i remember in ESO where there was a slider to increase tail size for Argonians (although it might not have been specifically for that?) that also increased ass size, which i suppose was a necessary evil, but the unfortunate thing about it was the massive triangular shape that seemed like a parasite trying to burst out of your stomach. Then it proceeded to ruin all armors to top it all off.

I'll admit it's pretty dumb, but when compared with that, it's not so bad. Perhaps NGS upgraded some things, but for whatever reason some things are combined on the skeletons in a really old manner.

Still, ass and face are not self-similar, so that's enough of that. Although i wonder if ESO has a slider specifically for tails now, since i played it years ago.

I made a Khajiit character a few years ago, when I was still playing it, and I honestly don't remember if there was a slider for the tail. There was definitely an ass slider though, which I took advantage of, lol. But yeah, the way things are linked are definitely odd, but not unheard of in most games with a character creator. All of which are getting better as time goes on. I revere when character customization, to the scale it's at now, was unheard of.

In regards to tails, I'd also love an organic tail option similar to what Final Fantasy 14 has with its movement and appearance, but with it being a body type option, similar to all the other options we have, but I know that's asking to too much, and also not something everyone wants. I mean with those fish ears, and some of the other cosmetics, like lizard tongue etc. they have been adding through AC scratches, I have to wonder if new body types to match, weren't already apart of the long term plan. Those new regions might also have new races. That all remains to be seen however, but a human body with an organic set of Cat Ears and Tail. That's something I know players that make characters like that would be all over. Same with some of the other options that are possible. I already saw a screenshot in the official Discord, of a female character with fish ears, blue skin, and using that floating fish accessory. That said, such options aren't for everyone, which is likely why we only ever get stuff like that as a cosmetic accessory, or costume prop, that most players I've bumped into, call a butt plug.

I would definitely like more face adjustment options or even just an increase in the range of the sliders. Because I feel like PSO2 always had a samey thing for everyone's face.

There's only a few possible things you can do to the face before it ends up looking the same as everyone else's faces with slight variation. I want to be able to adjust the face more and control the positioning of facial features much more.

It would be cool to be able to recreate the style of characters from other anime-style media much better than we can currently, even if you don't copy a specific character. (One problem with doing that is the jaw shape forces itself to change shape when you want to adjust it slightly at some increments, or the sliders just don't go far enough, or the fact that you can't really adjust the length of your forehead that much which makes it look huge with some hairstyles).

I want to feel like I can mold the face into any face shape that exists in any anime or whatever, and be able to position face parts individually wherever I want, without messing up the entire shape of the face, or messing up the shape of the facial features themselves.

I've had way too many times where I finally got my characters eyes to the right spot after fighting with all the sliders, only to find out if I try to shape the eyes correctly it messes everything else up.