NGS Braver Balancing

After playing NGS Braver since it released I am not pleased with the balancing SEGA has done so far. katana has Weapon Action Counter however it is completely eclipsed by the existence of Step Counter. Why is it that a generic action that all weapons and classes have access to better than a weapon's unique class mechanic?

Imagine as an example that you're leveling a class in a game and learning skills related to its unique mechanics to make it stronger. BUT THEN there's a generic skill that is usable by every class in the game and that skill is better than the unique class skill that you have wasted limited resources on when there is no pay out for it because its obsolete. I'm not arguing that Step Counter should not be available to every class, in fact I appreciate having it as an always available option. However, when its usefulness and DPS eclipses a classes' unique mechanics that you spent SP on which is a limited resource that is where I draw the line because it is poor game balancing. Fearless Attitude also needs improvements as well because the range on it is poor and it takes too long for the guard frame to appear after an attack. The fact that the guard frame is not omnidirectional is also painful. I hope that changes are made to incentivize players to use katana and bow weapon actions more. Step Counter SHOULD NOT be the primary choice; it needs to be an alternative option.

50885d6a-a909-495b-a68b-734e3b47f693-image.png

https://ngs.pso2.com/news/updates/announcement61848

"able to move quickly and easily" (https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/agile). SEGA do you even know what the definition of agile is? Because playing katana so far it could not be further from that definition. The fastest and most efficient option in combat for katana to move is to Photon Dash WHICH EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME IS ABLE TO DO AS WELL. Katana Photon Arts have poor mobility and struggles to chase enemies who move frequently. The chasing ability on Brave Combat is also poor however I really hope changes to tracking and chasing are made to the Photon Arts since those are what we have constant access to. Either that or we need a new Photon Art that we can use to chase enemies because katana doesn't feel very agile when most of its attacks lock it in one spot. Katana feels more like how I would expect sword to feel because there's hardly any mobility and I feel like a turret because spamming Lotus Lightning on single target is the highest DPS.

I don't like that all the guard frames on katana are only 180 degrees and leaves the back completely unprotected. I understand to an extent that the Weapon Action Counter for katana has always been like that and its unlikely to change. BUT WHY DOES THIS NEED TO EXTEND TO THE GUARD FRAMES ON FEARLESS ATTITUDE AND THE GUARD FRAMES DURING PHOTON ARTS AS WELL. I know you're trying to emphasize the "brave" idea of facing attacks head on but the hitboxes in your game can be wonky and hit from behind when they're coming directly from the front. Nobody likes having a guard frame that only protects the front of you and leaves your back completely vulnerable. This is especially noticeable on Fearless Attitude because sometimes attacks may come at an angle but trying to input any kind of action will cancel Fearless Attitude resulting in you getting hit. I honestly doubt any kind of change will be made here but it feels scuffed getting hit when you time something correctly but get hit anyway because hitbox says it hit you from behind.

The Standing Massive or "Super Armor" during Photon Arts isn't bad but its not great either. Taking damage while using a Photon Art because you can't move goes back once again to the lack of mobility on katana. This is just Counter intuitive to what I would expect to see from "an agile weapon that is ideal for rapid attacks."

"My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined" and "Look how they massacred my boy" perfectly summarizes how I feel about katana in NGS.

In regards to bow there have definitely been positive changes made to it since it no longer revolves around Banishing Arrow. Overall bow has been a better experience except for one thing. There is one point of concern I have. Why is it that bow has better mobility than katana? It's a very interesting design choice when bow can move faster than katana even though katana "IS THE AGILE WEAPON WITH RAPID ATTACKS." The balancing of katana so far has been questionable at best so I hope what I have said so far today reaches someone's ears. I just want to reiterate once more that players should feel rewarded and incentivized for using unique Class/Weapon mechanics. Step Counter SHOULD NOT be the primary choice when there are zero skills in the class tree to encourage using it. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk and I hope changes will be made to encourage learning more about your class instead of just "Step Counter go brrrrr."

Except there is a reason to use weapon action's counter over dodge. Dodge counters do more damage, sure, but their range is pretty much the same as a normal attack, and many of the PAs extend reasonably far beyond that range. Weapon action counters do less damage, but have a good range to them thanks to the wave - and the wave seems to (?) be able to hit multiple enemies, which is good because it covers a decently large area for a counter.

while is true that the side step counter deals more damage than the counter and this is applied to all classes that can counter with the weapon action you are ignoring that the side step counter only gives bonus to the attack to do in the moment that the side step ends and in most situations when you use a side step to not be hit with a melee class you are not in range to hit the enemy differently from the counter that majority of then do hit the enemy.

@Jamesmor ... if you're not within range to hit with step counter then you Weapon Action Counter because that's pretty much one of the few niche situations where it comes into play. But if you are within range to hit with step counter then that instantly becomes your priority. If you are outside of the range for reaching with Step Counter I suppose it's ok to blame it on the way SEGA designed the weapon but tbh I rarely have reason to use the Weapon Action when Step Counter comes out faster, has higher dmg, and can be used multiple times for multi-hitting attacks. I wish I had more reasons to actually use it but sadly its relegated to playing second fiddle.

@LusterMain I will agree that the range on the Weapon Action Counter is better and COULD potentially hit multiple targets in a mobbing scenario. But then if in that same mobbing scenario there are multiple enemies standing next to each other and I could hit all of them with Step Counter then why would I use the Weapon Action Counter when Step Counter exists. Since not only would it come out faster and do more dmg, it would also give more PP back to spam more PAs than Weapon Action Counter would.

The issue with step counter being better than using the WA counter that needs actual skill point investment is not unique to braver.

Braver doesn't even have omnidirectional guard and thus omnidirectional WA counter. Sidestep is omnidirectional from the get-go. It's silly that after two limited skill points and meeting an additional facing requirement, WA counter is still only "situational" compared to sidestep, if that.

@Zoe said in NGS Braver Balancing:

The issue with step counter being better than using the WA counter that needs actual skill point investment is not unique to braver.

Braver doesn't even have omnidirectional guard and thus omnidirectional WA counter. Sidestep is omnidirectional from the get-go. It's silly that after two limited skill points and meeting an additional facing requirement, WA counter is still only "situational" compared to sidestep, if that.

Yeah its an issue that I've seen with other classes too. I agree with you it's an absolute joke the way SEGA has balanced stuff so far.

@Levant21

It is significantly more likely that a number of mobs are going to be arranged in a general line in front of you (especially seeing as this can easily be manipulated) than the same number of mobs being arranged in a small clump. Even assuming the two scenarios were equally likely, they would still be valid gameplay alternatives as situations where a dodge counter is worse are still common. The mere existence of scenarios where the dodge counter is better than the weapon action counter does not prove that the weapon action counter isn't a viable alternative, it proves that it is. The WA could use a slight damage buff as is (even if the alternative of not taking the skills leaves you with a damage of literally zero in it's niche, the damage that it does deal is still a little lacking), but I don't think it should be performing close to how dodge counters do.

@Levant21 said in NGS Braver Balancing:

I agree with you it's an absolute joke the way SEGA has balanced stuff so far.

It's violating game design 101.

WA counters and sidestep counters serve the same purpose (negating and countering an attack via timing a brief trigger window right) and are mutually exclusive, you can only either sidestep, or parry an attack, not both at the same time. To have a WA counter at all requires a skill point. A sidestep counter does not. Skill points are a sparse resource that are supposed to make your character stronger (Hence why they are factored into BP). Therefore, a WA counter should be better than a sidestep counter by default.

This is on principle, a talented skill should never be worse than an untalented one with the same purpose. For braver in particular, it already applies to the counter itself, without even considering the shockwave utility. The shockwave is an additional skill point and isn't an issue for what it does. It gives you an additional utility you didn't have before, exactly what a skill point should do. But the counter itself already needs to be able to stand on its own, which it doesn't.

@LusterMain said in NGS Braver Balancing:

@Levant21

It is significantly more likely that a number of mobs are going to be arranged in a general line in front of you (especially seeing as this can easily be manipulated) than the same number of mobs being arranged in a small clump. Even assuming the two scenarios were equally likely, they would still be valid gameplay alternatives as situations where a dodge counter is worse are still common. The mere existence of scenarios where the dodge counter is better than the weapon action counter does not prove that the weapon action counter isn't a viable alternative, it proves that it is. The WA could use a slight damage buff as is (even if the alternative of not taking the skills leaves you with a damage of literally zero in it's niche, the damage that it does deal is still a little lacking), but I don't think it should be performing close to how dodge counters do.

I'm not going say that there aren't scenarios where you would want to Weapon Action Counter. Those scenarios do exist. Its just that with how things are currently there are more scenarios where you would Step Counter instead of Weapon Action Counter. I am going to disagree with you however about how Weapon Action Counter should do less dps than Step Counter because I feel the DPS on Weapon Action Counter should be greater than Step Counter. Lets also not forget that Fearless Attitude exists so there are 3 different counter options that katana has. I really think that Step Counter should be relegated to the niche choice as a safer option because the Weapon Action Counter and Fearless Attitude both only have front guard frames. My stance on that won't change until SEGA chooses to add passives in the Braver skill tree specifically for Step Counter.

Fearless Attitude also has 2 problems: It cancel if you are in the air and hit the ground. It also cancel if your character turn or move at all, like if you are target locked and the target move causing your character to turn.

WA counters are only really useful to counter attacks when you are in the air and you don't have time to use fearless attitude.