Predicting the next move for the series - PARTIALLY CONFIRMED? NEW GENESIS (FULL Phantasy Star Series including unreleased PSO2 Episode 4-6 Spoilers Inside )

It turns out a simple boat was the clue we needed to start to understand what the Dolls are.

https://youtu.be/3Z9gwq-Ocno

Surprised I never posted it here. Here are some of the other mysteries still unresolved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auDlaFUZkUs

@PrinceBrightstar said in Predicting the next move for the series - PARTIALLY CONFIRMED? NEW GENESIS (FULL Phantasy Star Series including unreleased PSO2 Episode 4-6 Spoilers Inside ):

We got a pretty interesting lore dump today. The planet involved doesn't seem to be any planet that we know of currently in PSO2, yet the ARKS name is still involved. The Meteroians seems to take a similar route to what happened at the start of Idola episode 2. We do know that there were multiple ARKS groups that were sent out to explore space and weren't directly involved with the events that took place in the main game, see Phantasy star Nova. There are several lingering questions though, are the Makians involved? And just what scenarios are going to play out in those cocoons?

Haha... I figured that from just looking at the scenery of Aelio. You can see a hole in the mountain that the angle points directly to Central city

There are some important things that I just found out due to me just finally going through the last 2 episodes of PSO2 (partially through ep6)

Basically... the timeline is this

Photoner stuffs

Mother finds herself on Earth

PS3 end - Alissa 3 crashes on Ragol

PSO - Coralians go to Ragol

PSOzero - Coral becomes Earth

PSO2

PS1

PS2

PS3

PS4

PSU

PSO2 is likely happening parallel to other games and the timeline is little weird because time flows at different speeds. There are 2 confirmed universes and this set-up would be doable with just that, but PSU is in another universe, but linguistically and what I know of everything it fits perfectly well right there. If it's not clear, all but the events of PSO2 are in the same universe, but they're still interconnected.

Previous to ep6 it didn't dawn on my that Xion was a planet and the photoner efforts to clone her weren't all humanoid. With this bit of info we know that Mother is the first clone and Shiva (The Profound Darkness) is the "last" but we also see that the Photoners leave lying around their attempts or toss them into sub-space. hence... We also have Terriyota and Kasheena, but more importantly but left unstated is we also likely have the Algol system which was constructed to seal the Profound Darkness or Dark Falz. Either makes sense but I'm willing to bet that there was a misunderstanding somewhere that sealing the Dark Falz would prevent the Profound Darkness from being able to escape. This would only be the case if the desire of the Dark Falz was to release the profound Dark Darkness which we learn is sorta the case.

But there are a lot of Dark Falz... not true. There are 3 Elder, Apprentice, and Gemini... or were 3 until Luther and Persona came about... So the Algol Star system was likely constructed to seal those 3 in some fashion.

This also calls out Rycross as a Xion clone and that there are possibly others out.

Another interesting tidbit of information... Player became Dark Falz which makes me question what the player is as we have never seen any other Falz come from a non-photoner as its origin and we have 4 of the 5 origins other than Elder. And still there is more. We know Xion can create clones of herself and we know how her clone became the profound darkness and that the profound darkness can't just take over a vessel which begs the question then... what the heck Matoi? She "became" the profound darkness which implies that she herself is a clone of Xion...which makes sense since the actions of Xion has been said to be all for only one purpose, save Matoi. If that's the case then Xion created Matoi and probably views her as her daughter. But that to begs the question... does that mean that the Profound Darkness was inevitable since it is the Photoners that made it... Are they the true villains? I believe so. Almost all other Xion clones we know of have turned out "good" if misguided.

1 problem in all this is that it is implied/stated that the Profound Darkness is "all photons" or a "copy of the akashic records" but this isn't true. It's a mix up somewhere along the way which is kinda unfortunate to the story because they made Shiva inaccurately powerful. She isn't a huge mass of photons and wasn't made to absorb al photons. She didn't need to be because she isn't all photons. She is a librarian, like Xion. She's a mass amount of photons but she is not all photons although she would be able to control all photons given that she has access to understanding what they are.

@Durakken said in Predicting the next move for the series - PARTIALLY CONFIRMED? NEW GENESIS (FULL Phantasy Star Series including unreleased PSO2 Episode 4-6 Spoilers Inside ):

But there are a lot of Dark Falz... not true. There are 3 Elder, Apprentice, and Gemini... or were 3 until Luther and Persona came about... So the Algol Star system was likely constructed to seal those 3 in some fashion.

That is entirely wrong. The Dark Falzes in the classic games, the Dark Falz in PSO, the dark falz in PS0, the three original Dark Falzes in PSU, Dark Falz Theather and now the new one in NGS.

If PSO2 came before PSClassic and not after then they can't be the same Dark Falzes and PD. I'm not even sure there's a point in time where they could have been sealed in the Agol system.

Even if PSClassic happened between the creation of PD and the present day of PSO2. PSO2's PD and dark falzes are supposed to be gone for good. Even if PD somehow came back, the Dark Falz in PSClassic wouldn't be the same one but an entirely new one. Just like how the one in PSO can't be the one in classic that was shot into space due to the ship landing on a completely different planet from Ragol.

Elder is not the Dark Falz from PSO because that one didn't have hands and if PSO2 came before classic, why did Dark Falz not look like any of the ones in PSO2 until PSIV?

alt text

Also if PD is constantly coming back, why did Primordial Darkness' first form not look like Legion, it's second form missing entirely and final form look much less humanoid? And moreover if PSO2 came earlier in the timeline than everything else, why do the words "Elder" and "Primoridal" suggest the exact reverse?

Also your timeline doesn't work because of the PSU/PSP2I collab. PSU would have had to come before PSO2.

@PrinceBrightstar Not for nothing but the more I think of your original in this thread post, the less it makes sense. Also another point that counters your original post is the existence of Lilipian citizens in Idola. In spite of having lived on Vandor for thousands of years, they did not evolve.

@Durakken said in Predicting the next move for the series - PARTIALLY CONFIRMED? NEW GENESIS (FULL Phantasy Star Series including unreleased PSO2 Episode 4-6 Spoilers Inside ):

PSO2 is likely happening parallel to other games and the timeline is little weird because time flows at different speeds.

I doubt that. It seems to be a parallel universe like PSU. Weird thing is that I thought because subspace travel was the way that PSP2i characters arrived in PSO2 that it was a means of traveling through parallel universes but the SAO collab completely ruined that notion. Turns out it works exactly like it does in Star Trek

This can only mean one thing: PSO2.... Exists in the PSU universe and the Dark Falzes in PSO2, NGS and Idola have nothing to do with the other dark falzes in the franchise because there's no indicator that the Photoner PD created the Dark Falz in PSU... and with PD seemingly completely dead with the plot of Episode 6 clearly having a theme of ending the Photoners' legacy, the existence of Theater and NGS DF only gives credence to the idea that the rest aren't related.

But that said...

This also calls out Rycross as a Xion clone and that there are possibly others out.

This actually does seem with in the realm of possibility. Just not the one in the Algol system. Mother set a precedence for this. That said, there's no real evidence of this that I am aware of.

@Mattwo7 PSO Falz is PSO2's Elder. This we can say with certainty because the enemies/Falzspawn of PSO look the same as Elder's Falzspawn.

The only thing linking PSO and PS classic is the "possible" time travelling aspect at the end of PS3 where the Alissa 3 crash lands on a planet that is supposed to be Ragol... This places Ragol in another time or dimension or both. I choose that he goes back in time setting PS classic after PSO which fits with Coral becoming Earth in the future, because Earthlings attack the Algol system in PS2.

PSO2 and PS3 could happen at the same time.

I believe there was a statement at one time that PSU was supposed to happen at the end of the timeline which works when PSU is also supposed to have an ancient civilization that has died out in its past and its system matches with similar name and everything to the Algol system.

So timeline it all works out that way.

In PSO2... there are only 3 origins Falz... that we know of... that were created pre-game

If PSclassic happened after PSO2 that would be an evolution of or new Falz which we know is possible. PSO2 also establishes that there isn't 1 Profound Darkness even though it talks like there is and likewise the PD is not responsible for creating the Dark Falz. The PD is a non-corporeal entity that can connect to the Akashic records and photoners, enhancing their abilities and knowledge, and manifesting their thoughts and emotions into reality. This is something that Photoners could do already, but obviously have such negative emotions that it caused the Xion clone have a cascade of negative energy which turned it "evil". The Dark Falz would manifest either way with enough photonic energy and negative energy build up. The DFs are then embodiements of negative energy which are strengthened by and strengthen a PD, but are not linked in a real way, but this symbiosis would cause both sides to seek each other out, releasing each other and creating each other.


That all being said, I'm inclined to believe something I came up with the other night after I realized something. I call it the Multiple-Incarnation Theory. Basically, we're all mistaken about how the very universe/multiverse of Phantasy Star works. We're some pretty important things in ep4... like there is a god of the universe and that the earth universe as we know it wasn't always the way that it is now. It had multiple incarnations where the events happened but not the same way or how they were generally remembered. The gist of them happened, which I remembered that explanation but didn't put 2 and 2 together that we're told the exact same thing of the Akashic Records world of Omega... And then we kept on getting told that there are elements on each version that are passed along but each of the games are their own universe... I think, that's not quite true, but close, especially when you think of PSO and PSO2. Everything we know about PSO can fit into the story of PSO2 if you just take the gist of what happened and the general outline. Its when we take the details and the length of time into account that there becomes an issue...

So my idea is that the time line of Phantasy Star as a whole happened in exactly the way it is told to us, but between games the incarnation changes so its remembered as having happened differently. We were the 3 in PSO we sealed that Dark Falz on Ragol and that is now Naverius and Elder and someone else. It's the same events, just scrambled a little and that is happening in universe, not because different universe or something like that out of canon, but because in canon the entire structure of the universe as it is now has changed so that it once resembled the older game but now is the new game.

Or you know it could be nothing but throwbacks, mythology gags, between completely different continuities. Honestly trying to draw a timeline between literally every Phantasy Star game is a act of futility almost as great as trying to tie the Classic Sonic continuity together, including spinoffs and the Classic Sonic contunity to the Modern Sonic continuity (and by Modern Sonic, I mean Adventure onwards). Least before Forces decided "you know what, it's kind of dumb to say Classic Sonic is the past Sonic, let's just say he's from another universe". And it's certainly not helped by the fact that both Sonics are perpetually fifteen years old...

Or trying to make sense of the Zelda timeline, which in spite of an official one being released and branching into three different timelines, still does not make any real sense. Apparently BotW acts a serious spanner in the works even though they had already released that timeline. They didn't even bother sticking to it.

Heck Eiji Aonuma even said:

In books like the recently released The Legend of Zelda Encyclopedia, we revealed where each Zelda game fell on a timeline and how their stories related, but we didn't do that for Breath of the Wild. There is a reason for that. With this game, we saw just how many players were playing in their own way and had those reactions I just mentioned.

We realised that people were enjoying imagining the story that emerged from the fragmentary imagery we were providing. If we defined a restricted timeline, then there would be a definitive story, and it would eliminate the room for imagination, which wouldn't be as fun.

We want players to be able to continue having fun imagining this world even after they are finished with the game, so, this time, we decided that we would avoid making clarifications. I hope that everyone can find their own answer, in their own way.

It's a bit of a cop-out frankly and it really seems like the timeline never really mattered to him...

I think it's just high time to accept that the only real thread tying PSO2 to past games is the Universe/PSP2I crossover.

@Durakken said in Predicting the next move for the series - PARTIALLY CONFIRMED? NEW GENESIS (FULL Phantasy Star Series including unreleased PSO2 Episode 4-6 Spoilers Inside ):

@Mattwo7 PSO Falz is PSO2's Elder. This we can say with certainty because the enemies/Falzspawn of PSO look the same as Elder's Falzspawn.

The only thing linking PSO and PS classic is the "possible" time travelling aspect at the end of PS3 where the Alissa 3 crash lands on a planet that is supposed to be Ragol... This places Ragol in another time or dimension or both. I choose that he goes back in time setting PS classic after PSO which fits with Coral becoming Earth in the future, because Earthlings attack the Algol system in PS2.

PSO2 and PS3 could happen at the same time.

I believe there was a statement at one time that PSU was supposed to happen at the end of the timeline which works when PSU is also supposed to have an ancient civilization that has died out in its past and its system matches with similar name and everything to the Algol system.

So timeline it all works out that way.

In PSO2... there are only 3 origins Falz... that we know of... that were created pre-game

If PSclassic happened after PSO2 that would be an evolution of or new Falz which we know is possible. PSO2 also establishes that there isn't 1 Profound Darkness even though it talks like there is and likewise the PD is not responsible for creating the Dark Falz. The PD is a non-corporeal entity that can connect to the Akashic records and photoners, enhancing their abilities and knowledge, and manifesting their thoughts and emotions into reality. This is something that Photoners could do already, but obviously have such negative emotions that it caused the Xion clone have a cascade of negative energy which turned it "evil". The Dark Falz would manifest either way with enough photonic energy and negative energy build up. The DFs are then embodiements of negative energy which are strengthened by and strengthen a PD, but are not linked in a real way, but this symbiosis would cause both sides to seek each other out, releasing each other and creating each other.


That all being said, I'm inclined to believe something I came up with the other night after I realized something. I call it the Multiple-Incarnation Theory. Basically, we're all mistaken about how the very universe/multiverse of Phantasy Star works. We're some pretty important things in ep4... like there is a god of the universe and that the earth universe as we know it wasn't always the way that it is now. It had multiple incarnations where the events happened but not the same way or how they were generally remembered. The gist of them happened, which I remembered that explanation but didn't put 2 and 2 together that we're told the exact same thing of the Akashic Records world of Omega... And then we kept on getting told that there are elements on each version that are passed along but each of the games are their own universe... I think, that's not quite true, but close, especially when you think of PSO and PSO2. Everything we know about PSO can fit into the story of PSO2 if you just take the gist of what happened and the general outline. Its when we take the details and the length of time into account that there becomes an issue...

So my idea is that the time line of Phantasy Star as a whole happened in exactly the way it is told to us, but between games the incarnation changes so its remembered as having happened differently. We were the 3 in PSO we sealed that Dark Falz on Ragol and that is now Naverius and Elder and someone else. It's the same events, just scrambled a little and that is happening in universe, not because different universe or something like that out of canon, but because in canon the entire structure of the universe as it is now has changed so that it once resembled the older game but now is the new game.

Look As cool as all of this sounds. Only the PSO games are seemingly connected with each other. The OG games doesn't really have anything to do with them except for being in the same franchise.

Meh. Believe what you want. No amount of argumentation has ever swayed anyone with the opinion that they're not connected at all and blah blah blah in the 20 years since PSO launched so why anyone care to even argue that any more? but PSO2's ending and everything that is implied throughout PSO2's story confirms what I said at the end more so than I was hoping.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to theorize but to act like it's a matter of absolute fact that somehow these connections exist to the point of obsession when there's only the absolute loosest of threads connecting them, if any seems a bit... Unhealthy to be honest. Eh, not that I'm one to talk about unhealthy mentalities, I wouldn't still be discussing this if I was the picture of mental health.

The problem is that it is that the story backs up and explains how the universe works and then general response to this is "they're not connected because the game doesnt explicitly state that"

But we actually do have the fact that every character in Omega is a character either in PSO2's story line or one from PS classic and Omega is telling of events jumbled up a bit but still, they are people, places, things that have existed in the universe and because PSO2's storyline also explicitly states that it's at the literal end of time at that moment, we know that those characters and did in fact exist in some timeline of the PSO2 universe and not in an alternate one because spoilers about the end game story and how everything relates.

I came up with the idea of Multiple Incarnations and the game pretty much 100% backs it up with the final pieces of the story and explains how the classic's understanding of the PD and PSO2's work together and the reason there is confusion is cuz poor translation and PSclassic tells it as myth while PSO2 tells it from the PoV of people being there.

@Durakken Well in my eyes, aside from PSO2 and PSU, it's all alternate universes. Separate canons with similar elements. What you described is something far muddier that makes absolutely no sense. It'd make the people who worked on the Super Sentai and Kamen Rider crossovers (especially Shinichiro Shirakura) tilt their heads and go "what the hell is this person on about?!"

Both of our theories are equally valid but in the end yours simply doesn't make any real sense.