@ultimatecalibur said in I'm not sure if I'm liking the direction SEGA takes with the class designs...:
@AiC-L said in I'm not sure if I'm liking the direction SEGA takes with the class designs...:
There's some dispute currently on the discord about Spiral Edge's DPS, but it's the only one that might possibly have higher DPS uncharged on frame perfect. The other two PAs are higher when charged. In fact I think that and Foie might be the only exceptions to the rule in general last I checked. Which other ones are you getting that are either slightly higher or a damage loss?
TMG - All 3 PAs are a dps loss when charged over the uncharged versions, but due to the mechanics of gunner, proper use of those charged attacks is a dps gain.
Rifle - Charged Razing Shot needs 3 hits on a target to exceed the dps of the uncharged version.
Bow - The uncharged normal is higher dps than the charged version. 1st stage charged Flex Arrow is similar to Razing Shot in needing 3 hits to exceed the uncharged version while the 2nd stage version is lower average dps even if a single big hit.
Everything I see is like 5-10% more of an increase at least.
5 to 10% is actually pretty minor even if significant. Other games have charged attacks that average out to 50% to 100% more dps for comparison.
I'm not saying that the charged attacks in NGS are not good. If anything I think the exact opposite. For example, frame data says that uncharged Flex Arrow is greater dps than the 2nd stage charged version but fails to factor PP cost and recovery into that information. 2nd stage charged needs ~1/8th the PP of the uncharged version which shifts the actual average single target dps.
What chart are you using for TMG? The ones I've been looking at have charged as stronger.
It's practically impossible to NOT hit 3 shots with Razing. I can hit it on the floating balls. Fuwans? I do have a suspicion that only hitting the first hit on weak point might result in less dps than all hits on weak with uncharged though.
I thought bow was the other way around. Well, that's new.
So going through an entire DPS chart, that's... Spiral Edge, Bow normal, Razing and Flex1 on small tames or limbs or maybe the little walking orbs, Flex2, Dim. Ray, Foie, and Gizonde that are weaker. Foie being the largest loss at -20%/-15% less damage depending on PFSC, -11% Flex2, -7.5% Gizonde, -7% Razing 2-tick, -6.25% Dimensional Ray if you hit with all of the uncharged, -5.3% Flex1 2-tick, -1.8% Spiral, -1.5% Bow normal. But practically that's just Spiral and Bow normal since you'd be consciously screwing up Flex1 and Razing target choice. Flex2, Frenzied Firework, Dimensional Ray, and basically all techs fall into the 'multiple uses' category you listed.
Compared to 2 Sword PAs, 2 Partisan, Razing/Flex1 on practically anything worth considering DPS, Launcher normal, 3 TMG, and 1 Wand. That comes in at 4.9% Zapper, 7%-21% Calibur (practically more like 14%), 1%-11% Scythe depending on cancel or full, 7% Tornado, 10%+ Razing 3+, 11.7% or 14% depending on sheet for focused Launcher normal compared to loop, 2%-14.7% Bullet Rave, 6.6%-9.4% Aimless Rain, 6.9% Point Blank, 12.3%+ Flex1 3+, a ridiculous 300%+ if you precast a Flex2, and 12.8% Swift Smash (though I heard this one is just a gap closer).
Honestly it looks like Spiral, Bow, and Techs are the outliers. Everything else seems to fall into 'charge to do more DPS'. I get what you're saying that they gain alternative or bonus properties, but those seem more like the side effects rather than the reverse where the damage is the extra. Basically everything but Razing/Flex (travel speed) is the same damage for commitment as usual.
5-10% is like one or two augmented armors, or upgrading your potential a few times.