Genuine concerns about the game and its practices

@IAMCRAIG said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

I whaled until near the end of PSO2's lifespan (global) and agree with OP wholeheartedly. (For a rough estimate, somewhere above 2 grand, which I honestly feel kind of sick about looking back on it, especially since I am not a wealthy person in the least)

Honestly, even if Sega does fix things to a degree, I still might not ever give them any money again, since their monetization is incredibly predatory and like all gacha, works similarly to gambling (well, it literally IS gambling, just that the prizes are cosmetics and not money) in how it's designed to hook specific kinds of people and keep them paying more. You can't even say "just don't spend money/play the game lol" due to how advertising works and how games like PSO2/NGS lure you in with a game looks neat and/or is fun to play, gets you invested, then rolls out the gacha.

Aye don't feel too bad, I feel sick about it, too, because while I can accept a game just reaching the end of its life, it feels like a waste of money spent on a company that left me feeling wanting and bitter. I've whaled in other games and it was sad when they shut down but I had the good memories worth every penny, I'm not so sure I'll feel the same about this game. I'm not rich, either. I just work a lot and have no kids. I took a hiatus from base PSO2 and when I came back my beloved game looked freaking broken, god it feels like such a waste.

I've dropped to maybe a small dolphin? I went from thousands to...$220 total, and then stopped completely. I don't want them to think this is ok, I'm not a charity for a fatcat gaming corporation. I'm not giving them free money for no effort.

And finally, their new gacha light up effects really rub me the wrong way. They look predatory to people with a gambling addiction, they look like slot machine effects now. No one can convince me that's a coincidence. I'm not buyin'.

@El-Zenchi I'm sorry, I must be missing your point in mentioning that then. In what way does that relate to being able to being able to do basic customization for the fashion ("armor") you acquire without feeling like you're paywalled while being a monthly subscriber?

Its one thing to have the passes for members who don't pay for premium. But if I buy fashion while I'm spending 1300AC in a game, I want to be able to customize it because I paid for it. Even if I have to pay ingame currency for its "dyes".

I mean I can do it with accessories for free, can't I? And what about CAST users? They can't change their colours at all because unlike the Salon Pass, they're tied to the N-Colour-Pass.

Again, this isn't about receiving free things. But making it feel balanced between Free users, Premium users and AC scratchers (who tend to be premium users too)

(You know, ignoring the above points raised about the amount of money going into scratch bonuses every 2 weeks.)

@Bluepantsu said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

@El-Zenchi I'm sorry, I must be missing your point in mentioning that then. In what way does that relate to being able to being able to do basic customization for the fashion ("armor") you acquire without feeling like you're paywalled while being a monthly subscriber?

Its one thing to have the passes for members who don't pay for premium. But if I buy fashion while I'm spending 1300AC in a game, I want to be able to customize it because I paid for it. Even if I have to pay ingame currency for its "dyes".

I mean I can do it with accessories for free, can't I? And what about CAST users? They can't change their colours at all because unlike the Salon Pass, they're tied to the N-Colour-Pass.

Again, this isn't about receiving free things. But making it feel balanced between Free users, Premium users and AC scratchers (who tend to be premium users too)

(You know, ignoring the above points raised about the amount of money going into scratch bonuses every 2 weeks.)

Uhhh, Cast can change their color with the old color passes...

I do agree I want to be able to color my stuff more often but it's something far from critical to me. I'm honestly only concerned about shop access and nothing else.

The only good thing to come out of the NGS of color pass system is I don't have to use a color pass to add different colored highlights to my hair as a CAST, god that royally sucked. A color pass used every single time because hair color highlights were tied to CAST color body numbers, I believe number three. You couldn't have a fun hair color addition without changing the look of your whole outfit. Now, if only color change passes were thrown out in the first place, because it's a dated system.

@El-Zenchi Then that's fine. We can agree to disagree that I see problems in areas where you don't. For me, fashion is something I really enjoy. I'm just tired of the way this game incentivizes you to spend money.

But then I'm.. I guess glad for CAST users, that their stockpile of colour passes didn't get invalidated with the launch of New Genesis? I hope the new CAST parts also allow colour customization using the old colour passes.

But I'm going to take a break from discussing now to take care of some irl chores. So I'll check back here later. Thank you all for the discussion and responses so far~

@Bluepantsu said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

@El-Zenchi Then that's fine. We can agree to disagree that I see problems in areas where you don't. For me, fashion is something I really enjoy. I'm just tired of the way this game incentivizes you to spend money.

But then I'm.. I guess glad for CAST users, that their stockpile of colour passes didn't get invalidated with the launch of New Genesis? I hope the new CAST parts also allow colour customization using the old colour passes.

But I'm going to take a break from discussing now to take care of some irl chores. So I'll check back here later. Thank you all for the discussion and responses so far~

I'm not exactly super happy with everything but in contrast to the rest of the F2P market, PSO2 is the best we have and I will defend it as it's the first free game that doesn't cuck gameplay from users who don't pay.

And yeah, cast can change color of ngs parts with ye olde color tickets.

@El-Zenchi I'd say Warframe treats its f2p players a bit better. It has issues, serious issues, but I find it more f2p friendly due to how you can trade platinum.

There's a huge point you somehow seem to be evading or missing. FFXIV fashion is mostly gear transmog, we don't even have visible armors in PSO2. That makes an enormous difference.

It doesn't make a difference. PSO2 could include cosmetic drops in a similar manner as gear drops. Also, FFXIV has level 1 gear that are designed to be for cosmetic purposes, fulfilling the same role as outfits in PSO2.

@Archetype-Luna said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

@El-Zenchi I'd say Warframe treats its f2p players a bit better. It has issues, serious issues, but I find it more f2p friendly due to how you can trade platinum.

There's a huge point you somehow seem to be evading or missing. FFXIV fashion is mostly gear transmog, we don't even have visible armors in PSO2. That makes an enormous difference.

It doesn't make a difference. PSO2 could include cosmetic drops in a similar manner as gear drops. Also, FFXIV has level 1 gear that are designed to be for cosmetic purposes, fulfilling the same role as outfits in PSO2.

Yes but there's no such thing as armor in PSO2 so that can't be a thing...

@El-Zenchi said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

@Archetype-Luna said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

@El-Zenchi I'd say Warframe treats its f2p players a bit better. It has issues, serious issues, but I find it more f2p friendly due to how you can trade platinum.

There's a huge point you somehow seem to be evading or missing. FFXIV fashion is mostly gear transmog, we don't even have visible armors in PSO2. That makes an enormous difference.

It doesn't make a difference. PSO2 could include cosmetic drops in a similar manner as gear drops. Also, FFXIV has level 1 gear that are designed to be for cosmetic purposes, fulfilling the same role as outfits in PSO2.

Yes but there's no such thing as armor in PSO2 so that can't be a thing...

It can be a thing because the items can serve the exact same purpose: cosmetics.

@Bluepantsu said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

Does this forum have no moderators? I am seeing a distinct lack of moderation where genuine discussions regarding serious topics are taking place. Where someone can come in and throw in a one-liner to "disprove" a wall of text without providing a shred of evidence much less a screenshot almost as if to try and provoke an annoyance from those who merely seek to see the game thrive. Its literally one step away from commenting "lol have you tried being not poor?" or "stay mad" and then leaving the thread again.

Its so demoralizing to see the kind of toxicity that discourages any and all criticism from taking place, and I bet they feel like they're genuinely doing the right thing and standing up for SEGA, who turns around and thanks them with another AC Scratch by the current model's standards.

Have some standards for a game that should be embarrassed to have its livelihood depend solely on whales and practices that seek to abuse basic human psychology. I can log into the game and take screenshots right now, make charts and points about why I'd call it greedy. But it'd fall on deaf ears I'm afraid. It would probably get some snarky responses that would further demoralize me from raising any issues. Some people see no problem with the game, and sadly it is those people that also have big wallets that sadly seem to be the aim of this game. Those people who would leave the game on a whim if their $ didn't bring in enough meseta or praise, while the hardcore fans that were willing to support the game through many means that wasn't blatant gambling (greed) get written off as "not interested", or "didn't want to support the game, this is why we were reluctant to release Globally and we were right."

Its not a secret that gacha games bring in an absolute fortune. That's why we see a lot of modern games implement them. But its also not a secret that they are globally hated for the very reason that they're gambling. Gambling in video games using real money. Video games, a medium by the way which is classified as entertainment much like Netflix. Can you imagine paying 1eur to gacha for which show you'll get out of a bundle of shows? And then scratch to hope you get the episode you're looking for?

With those services you get the perk of not having to watch ads, and saving you time of the day skipping manipulation. And naturally you can select whatever you want to watch from their catalogue. In PSO2 you can pay for premium and you'll still

  • Get advertisements
  • Pay for customizing your character
  • Not be able to change your colour scheme unless you have the unnecessarily elusive N-Colour-Change pass
  • Get laughed at as you still have to manage your materials manually because the storage costs more than the premium itself in SG

Wow, we get 60 minutes to re-edit our character after using the pass? Where's the premium in that? Once you exit the salon, the 60 minutes are over in a flash, and you don't have to leave the salon to see how your character would look outside it either as you can change the scenery from inside it.

So where do we draw the line? If what we got so far can not be classified as greed @El-Zenchi, then what would you consider greed? You know, aside from even us, the paying members (in case you still haven't read the OP) wanting less predatory practices?

You know, in Sweden you pay about 230 euros a year for your medicine in healthcare out of pocket. After spending about 100eur, you only pay 50% for the meds. At some point you only pay 25%, and 10% until you've filled up the 230 euros limit. Then you're covered for and don't have to pay a dime anymore until the period is up.

And here's a game company, asking you to pay 90 euros for a motion, knowing full well how much people who love fashion would want it. A new scratch is released every 2 weeks. How many of these 90 euros "not greed, but completely reasonably priced and generous offers for supporting the game" are we going to see before someone speaks up?

I'm not asking for game to be made free and for us to be given everything. But for anyone reading the OP, wouldn't you have more happily played the current "content" if your seasonal points could have gone to some of the cosmetics of the "9th ANNIVERSARY Scratches"?

Why would you spend 10,000 seasonal points on a weapon you can buy off of the player shops for 1,000 meseta? Whoever put this event together does not know how much of a slap in the face it is to see even a (supposedly heartfelt?) "thank you" event be accompanied by a heavy layer of greed.

A practice like this isn't going to make the majority of the people go "Oh man that's so cool, I'm going to scratch for up to 160eur to get the [Falling Washbasin] emote!", on the contrary, it makes a large part of the population think "why would I pay the price of nearly 3-AAA games for one cosmetic?"

And you would be right in asking yourself that. Why is this game company asking you to spend the price of a new motherboard, 32GB of RAM sticks? Or in my case, the equivalent of 60% of what my government asks of me to pay out of my own pocket for medicine before all of it is covered for the rest of the period?

Once again. A scratch is released every 2 weeks. There's currently 7 of them running concurrently. 3 if you don't count the insult that is the 9th anniversary celebration scratches.

But the clearest example of greed?

lol.jpg

lol2.jpg

But there are people who won't see a single thing wrong with this as a practice because they don't have a problem with a game company they're already paying a monthly premium to holding a cosmetic item out of reach teasing "You can't have this~ Not unless you pay an additional 90~140 euros."

What good is the "customization" aspect of a game that's heavily advertised as one of its perks, if even with a premium subscription you can't do the very thing they advertise unless you have an extremely rare virtual "pass"?

I can dig up a whole lot more, but I'm honestly getting tired. After nearly a decade of loving the game to bits I'm starting to realize that its not getting better, in fact its only getting worse as they make one questionable decision after another.

For each good change they make, they implement several eyebrow-raising changes in addition. I didn't expect to re-subscribe back to FFXIV until the Endwalker expansion released, but here we are...

I'd send all of this to support, hoping they pass it to Japan. But to what end? I'll have to rewrite most of it to not sound like a forum post and I don't know.. I guess I'm disappointed that after having felt like a second-rate citizen on the Japanese servers for the longest time (understandably so,) that we still feel like an afterthought on Global.

I guess I had hoped that Final Fantasy XIV's open-ness in at least discussing the problems and being open to input might rub off after PSO2's Global got announced. But we're left with silence as their latest "update" video that was more about even more ways to give them money sits at nearly, or over 50% dislikes on both JP and Global.

You can scream "stop being greedy" all you want, but there being this big of a divide tends to indicate a problem that needs to be addressed.

Edit: We have gone from ridiculing cash shops like the Horse Armour in the Elder Scrolls Oblivion, to defending companies manipulating us to get more and more money out of us.

The only thing F2P players can’t do that premium can is sell items on the market. Hence why I shout the mentality of something for nothing. Some louder more outspoken F2P players trying circumvent and manipulate though YouTube and forums disgruntled rants about how there no content. With the undertones of mistreatment of F2P players being lock out of market content while negating the fact that F2P are not contributing to the money flow development on a personal level. It easy to shade over this one simple fact through misdirection while bandwagon the community to strengthen their power of influence.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen the mods here at all lately. 😧 Are you guys still here?

@Rain-Gnyu said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

The only thing F2P players can’t do that premium can is sell items on the market. Hence why I shout the mentality of something for nothing. Some louder more outspoken F2P players trying circumvent and manipulate though YouTube and forums disgruntled rants about how there no content. With the undertones of mistreatment of F2P players being lock of market content while negating the fact that F2P are not contributing to the money flow development on a personal level. It easy to shade over this one simple fact through misdirection while bandwagon the community to strengthen their power of influence.

If you actually read OP's post, you'll learn that they aren't a f2p player, but are a premium player that does not find premium to have value. Also, f2p players are needed because they add to the game's population. No one wants to play an empty game. F2P players contribute to the game's earnings by attracting other players.

@Milk said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen the mods here at all lately. 😧 Are you guys still here?

They're probably busy with more important matters I guess. Or maybe moderation for the fourms hasn't really helped since trolls still come back with alt accounts all the time. So the mods don't really care unless someone posts some really nutty shit.

@Alexmo said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

@Milk said in Genuine concerns about the game and its practices:

Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen the mods here at all lately. 😧 Are you guys still here?

They're probably busy with more important matters I guess. Or maybe moderation for the fourms hasn't really helped since trolls still come back with alt accounts all the time. So the mods don't really care unless someone posts some really nutty shit.

Yeah, I just miss them. 😞

Ah yes I miss the "hey i'm sending this to the dev team" post. The forums is pretty weird now. I enjoyed the early conversations in pso2 global. Now its telling people they are wrong and posting the same "how to make mmo" picture in every thread.