The state of NGS actually makes me sad

@Shiyo The popular opinion I've seen doesn't say that at all. As someone who is a tank main, tanking is the best it has ever been. Compare ShB to Stormblood tanking and it is immensely better.

If the game was getting worse each expansion, why is it that the game is doing so much better with each expansion, why Shadowbringers is considered to be on par with the best of the series, up there with FFVI and FFVII.

All of the arguments you have put out, I've seen the opposite of the popular opinion. Especially the story, FFXIV is praised to hell and back for its story. Even the ARR experience, the low point of FFXIV, is no where near as bad as MMO's back in the hey day. You at least level up to 50 rather quickly.

If the game was as bad as you are saying, it would not be seeing so much success. The game's massive success is a counterpoint to your argument of how bad it is. Not only that, you are basically sending the message that a game can see success even if it is shit by saying FFXIV is as bad as you say it is. FFXIV is currently the top MMO on the market; by saying it basically didn't try to get there, you don't really give a good message to other game devs.

However, popular opinion, from all the streamers, WoW refugees, new players, etc. I don't see all the negativity you say exists in FFXIV. I highly doubt the game be in its current position if it is as bad as you say it is.

Furthermore, regardless of what you think about FFXIV and Yoshi P, you cannot refute how Yoshi P's presentation and the principles he stated in it should be followed by MMO's universally.

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Are you really going to say that those principles stated in that picture should not be followed?

I haven't even cleared all of FFXIV content yet and I've played since launch. They add more content than I can even play. I main a White Mage, the changes to it were favorable and my god healers are so fun in PVP. The story is hand's down the best, especially the second half of Heavensward and all of Shadowbringers. The characters are fleshed out and likeable, you actually get to know and care about them. The added Trust system was brilliant and it let me tag along with my favorite NPC pals.

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

@Yggranya said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

Except playing FFXIV you actually notice how things get improved and fixed. When something goes wrong, the community does jump down on them. An example would be Stormblood's launch and Raubahn EX. Then we saw them learn from those mistakes and gave us the smooth launch that was Shadowbringers.

Yeah, exactly like every game when they release/release something new, they'll listen and for a while, they'll even crunch to give a good impression. After that, it's back to the status quo. If they smell danger to their bottom line, they'll do something, which means the FFXIV playerbase is even more rabid with complaints than the rest. Would nicely explains why they do more if they're afraid of you all.

I see improvements in every patch. I have not seen them go back to a status quo of complacency. Like did anyone realistically expect datacenter visit for example? No, they did not, but it is happening.

Then you see something that doesn't exist. Every expansion? Maybe. Every patch? Yeah, right... Which is the same that's happened in all MMOs i've played with varying success.

@Shiyo I don't think he's overhyped. I think he's what a game director should strive to be for all games. I wouldn't say copy either. Inspired is the right word. There's always going to be similarities in all games and that's fine. I personally don't mind if games take from eachother provided what's being taken is good.

I don't agree that FF14 has gotten worse every xpac. I recently went back and I played the game at launch and again during Heavensward. The game has improved significantly since then. Also, as it stands it's way better than this game in every aspect besides combat and customization which should come as no surprise.

SE probably should give Yoshi and his team a bigger budget for FF14 since it's doing well. I'm pretty sure he's mentioned that he wished he has the budget that Blizzard does for WoW. It is what it is. I'm sure if Yoshi was in charge he'd want to use more funding for the game but ultimately SE calls the shots.

There is FFXIV with livestreams and their director appearing in public, and there is NGS with prerecorded streams with no one from the dev team appearing, much less one of the directors in the credits. Back in EP6 at least we could see YSOK talking about game updates.

@Yggranya said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

@Yggranya said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

Except playing FFXIV you actually notice how things get improved and fixed. When something goes wrong, the community does jump down on them. An example would be Stormblood's launch and Raubahn EX. Then we saw them learn from those mistakes and gave us the smooth launch that was Shadowbringers.

Yeah, exactly like every game when they release/release something new, they'll listen and for a while, they'll even crunch to give a good impression. After that, it's back to the status quo. If they smell danger to their bottom line, they'll do something, which means the FFXIV playerbase is even more rabid with complaints than the rest. Would nicely explains why they do more if they're afraid of you all.

I see improvements in every patch. I have not seen them go back to a status quo of complacency. Like did anyone realistically expect datacenter visit for example? No, they did not, but it is happening.

Then you see something that doesn't exist. Every expansion? Maybe. Every patch? Yeah, right...

Patch 5.1 had NG+, adjustments to Stormblood MSQ, added a feature to choose the difficulty of quest instance battles, adjusted guild leves for crafter and fisher, adjusted bicolor gemstone cap, added more items to bicolor gemstone traders, more housing districts, updated estate tags, new Gold Saucer Gate, and more class adjustments (a lot of them), the fellowship system, and all of the usual patch stuff.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/3a23a8ba13b2c4152681ec4fa5716915b851002f

5.11 then added Ishgard restoration, Alexander Ultimate, and more items.

That is 5.1 alone.

Like just look at each of the major patches (5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.5): https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/patchnote_log/

They are always incredibly long and have more than just the usual new story, new raid, etc. There is always something else, whether it is QoL, a non standard piece of content, etc. If they just did a status quo, you would just see new story and new raid each patch, but they are constantly trying to do more than just add the standard patch stuff.

Funniest part is that they aren't even trying to make people log in every day. They have stated before that it is perfectly fine for someone to take a break and not remained sub for a period of time and be able to jump back in where they left off. Yet, people still find things to do in game.

@Archetype-Luna Hey, it least we know it all just happens to be what you personally like.

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

Funniest part is that they aren't even trying to make people log in every day. They have stated before that it is perfectly fine for someone to take a break and not remained sub for a period of time and be able to jump back in where they left off. Yet, people still find things to do in game.

Heh, here we are again. ahem Unless you own a house, in which case they are keeping you paying until you're either done or willing to give up on owning a house basically ever again, considering the pain of getting one. Sure, not log in every day, but you'll be PAYING every day if you want to keep your house. Housing proves that even your beloved YoshiP can lie considering how it was hyped. You're free to disagree, but then we'll know you're full of shit.

@Yggranya You only have to log in once every 45 days to keep your house, not every day. As long as you just log in on the last day of your sub, you are safe for 45 days afterwards. So as long as you enter your house once every 45 days, you are fine. If it is a FC house, then just one person in the FC has to enter the house once every 45 days.

Also, to be fair, if you own a personal house, you are probably the type who would continue to find things to continue doing in the game, considering how hard it is to get a personal house. I only own a FC room, but I am always looking at each patch's furnishings to see what might work in my FC room.

And this case only affects you IF you own a house, which is a small minority when you consider the full population. Most people probably have an apartment room or share with their FC.

So unless you own a personal house, you are fine with taking a long break. If you own a house, you can still take a break as long as 45 days as long as you enter your house on the last day of the sub. So I don't think I would be full of shit even if I disagreed. Add in how they are continuing to tackle the housing problem to this very day with more wards being added in Endwalker and adjustments to the acquisition of houses such as having lottery wards and FC wards.

Man even when buying a real life house and having no internet I still managed to keep my FFXIV house, 45 days is really generous not requiring a log in, and they've even suspended the demolition multiple times in the past due to hardship, Covid included. Yes, they literally improve things every patch, that's what the Patch Notes are for and they're usually a whole page long of stuff they've fixed, multiple pages for expansions. They do emergency maintenance the very second something is brought to their attention that could break the game or otherwise harm the experience of their players. I know it's hard to accept that at least one company out there can do everything right, but it's real. I've played a lot of MMO's, since I was twelve. A lot of companies will lie to your face or let their game fall apart once they've got your money but FFXIV has never once done that. I've been playing since launch, it's never felt like they stopped caring about this game.

I really don't understand why people are trying to put down FFXIV since its existence can help in pressuring Sega to actually do something, since it is a competitor. If there isn't a good competitor that treats its players well, there is less incentive for Sega to change anything.

@Archetype-Luna Considering how simple the solution would be to make it better, which shouldn't be necessary to begin with since it could have been like that if not for the neighborhood obsession, "improving it" without fixing the root of the problem isn't much praise. Dancing around the obvious solution is just weird.

@Milk said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

I know it's hard to accept that at least one company out there can do everything right, but it's real.

Hilarious. If they didn't fix things just like most other companies do, they'd be out of money. Of course, the fixing is only true for things that would hurt their sales, just like all companies. If it's not important enough, nothing gets done, just like in all games.

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

I really don't understand why people are trying to put down FFXIV since its existence can help in pressuring Sega to actually do something, since it is a competitor. If there isn't a good competitor that treats its players well, there is less incentive for Sega to change anything.

I'm not trying to put down FFXIV, i'm trying to put down this obsession that people have with YoshiP idealization.

@Milk said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

45 days is really generous

Yeah so generous of them to only require you to pay monthly to keep a virtual house!

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

I really don't understand why people are trying to put down FFXIV since its existence can help in pressuring Sega to actually do something, since it is a competitor. If there isn't a good competitor that treats its players well, there is less incentive for Sega to change anything.

That's how I feel, too. Are players too young now to remember just how god awful gaming companies have been in the past, or is this selective amnesia? If there isn't at least one stellar example of customer service crushing the competition then none of these other companies will ever get off their rears and fix something. Every game should put the player first, but they don't. I've been through dozens of crappy cash grab soulless games that took the money and shut down the game without even the courtesy of a notice, if it weren't for FFXIV showing up back then I would have quit MMO's for good because I'm sick and tired of bad service.

@Shiyo said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

@Milk said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

45 days is really generous

Yeah so generous of them to only require you to pay monthly to keep a virtual house!

What else are they honestly supposed to do? Players who aren't using their houses take up a slot for players who are actively playing and want a house, too. The player base is divided on instanced housing so that's not a solution, either. They already added more housing blocks but there's still more players than houses. The fairest way to go about it is if someone wants a house, they need to actually use the house. 45 days is generous, I don't even have to log in once a month and it's not like my sub only pays for a house, it's the whole game I get to play.

@Milk said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

@Archetype-Luna said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

I really don't understand why people are trying to put down FFXIV since its existence can help in pressuring Sega to actually do something, since it is a competitor. If there isn't a good competitor that treats its players well, there is less incentive for Sega to change anything.

That's how I feel, too. Are players too young now to remember just how god awful gaming companies have been in the past, or is this selective amnesia? If there isn't at least one stellar example of customer service crushing the competition then none of these other companies will ever get off their rears and fix something. Every game should put the player first, but they don't. I've been through dozens of crappy cash grab soulless games that took the money and shut down the game without even the courtesy of a notice, if it weren't for FFXIV showing up back then I would have quit MMO's for good because I'm sick and tired of bad service.

They won't do that regardless until people stop paying them. I don't see what FFXIV has anything to do with anything in that regard. FFXIV doesn't need to show anything to anybody, people just need to pull their own head out of their own asses.

@Milk said in The state of NGS actually makes me sad:

What else are they honestly supposed to do? Players who aren't using their houses take up a slot for players who are actively playing and want a house, too. The player base is divided on instanced housing so that's not a solution, either. They already added more housing blocks but there's still more players than houses. The fairest way to go about it is if someone wants a house, they need to actually use the house. 45 days is generous, I don't even have to log in once a month and it's not like my sub only pays for a house, it's the whole game I get to play.

IDK, they could spend some of that millions of money on more instances for housing? They constantly brag about getting new players and more "account numbers" yet put zero of that back into the game. Jesus dude do not try to defend such a predatory business tactic.