If You Put People Down for Having Legitimate Complaints You are Part of the Problem

I can't believe I have to say this, but I've seen people being extremely toxic about people complaining about the direction of NGS. While it is possible to go too far (such as threats, actually just whining, or anything else that makes your argument into just some kind of flame), most of the time I've seen people attacking people, it's when they didn't do anything wrong, they just stated what was clearly going on in front of us and said they want more content.

Even the people that complain about lack of content on the Twitter, I'm pretty sure most of them know the person on the PSO2 Twitter account has no direct control over the decisions about the game (as in maybe they report some stuff we say back to higher-ups, but what they report doesn't have to be used, but who can really say). But if you want to get a company to do something you have to make what the company is doing wrong very publicly visible.

Whether SEGA will do something or not, we can't really say for sure, but if people are to stay silent about every issue they have with the game, the chances they will change the direction of the game are 0. The point of freedom of speech is to be able to call out the people in charge of well... anything, with proof of their wrongdoings and hope a change will be made because of it.

There's a difference between wanting something because of entitlement, and wanting something because it's something that is expected of any game of this genre, or even just based on what was in base PSO2.

If you try to silence people that are simply expressing their opinion (and the way they convey their opinion doesn't have misplaced malice) by saying they're just whining, then you are the one that is problematic.

Welcome to 2021. It doesn't matter whether it is reddit or this forum, the white knights are strong. If you don't call out the devs now, nothing will change, but people don't understand that. It is time to move on, there is no way this game can be salvaged.

I have been attacked on a Youtube comment, pointing that is not just an issue on the developer side but also part of the fault is most of the player-base giving up too soon before anything gets a chance to be added in or bugs to be fixed.

  • People complain about the game and get extremely toxic over it, to the point of getting angry and being rude to people who even dare to imply they're having fun with the game as is
  • Other people get upset about this and the constant doomposting, but instead of trying to have reasonable conversation some decide to just tell the first group entirely to "shut up, because you're the problem"
  • People from the first group see people telling them to shut up and get upset, and decide to complain about the people complaining about them complaining, because "no, you're the problem"

The community is going to kill this game before the game itself ever has a chance to.

@LusterMain This post is about people that tell people to shut up or play another game or that they're whining when someone simply says they want this or that.

Like I said there are people that are toxic with how they ask for more content, but if someone takes it out on people that do not do so, then yes they are the problem.

@Riesz

Oh, I'm well aware of what the thread is for. I'm not stupid. I just felt it relevant to point out that the entire community is horribly toxic, and the total absurdity that this thread even exists already. Anyone wanna bet on when people are gonna start complaining about the people complaining about them complaining that other people were complaining yet?

There is the small less than 1% that isn't toxic.

The toxic subjective negative reviews and comments will kill the game far faster than SEGA.

People like OP will be the reason NGS global will shut down before anything is released.

At this step it's going to be a miracle if we make it to the very first expansion.

It is ok, just don't engage back with people trying to put our complaints down. If I get something wrong, I definitely will apologize, but I am not going to refrain pointing at the Marmoth in the room that sadly this project is showing.

We got to check our sources though, because for example sometimes we have set population graphs showing peak times against low times and that's not fair.

Also, it is useful that we also suggest a solution while doing complaints.

The only real outlet for complaints is this forum. Who actually reads random tweets, and reddit will just get you downvoted until you get hidden/deleted. And even then, it's highly unlikely anyone important frequents this forum.

I think that no one deserves to be put down for having their point of view, it really means that you're interested in a product and you'd like it to prosper as long as possible in order to provide you enough satisfaction to support its development and that's totally fine.

Calling people white knights is just as bad as them telling people how to have fun, what server to choose in order to play, what stat & skill build is the best, what gear to use and what meta to blindly follow while closing door to try stuff you might have enjoyed. It puts such people into the same sack with those who ostracize community members for independent, out-of-the-box thought process. My meaning of fun doesn't have to be the same as yours, everyone has their own gaming preferences and each opinion, supported by constructive feedback and given in a polite manner, may be considered valuable by both sides. I may agree or disagree with you but I respect your word and treat you the same way I'd like to be treated.

Either positive and negative feedback has a value but I think that decision is up to game developers to make in order to compliment their vision and path set for their product's direction. Game development is a complex process and not every single feature or idea can be placed inside client to appease community's needs (otherwise it would end with disaster) or implemented without a fault at some point in the future. However they shall stay as flexible as possible and set their priorities on more important matters than scratch ticket campaigns, it's the mutual profit in the end - consumer gets a product to play with and publisher with developer are filled with satisfaction that their hard work paid off. Online game is meant to be provided for players and will be incomplete without them, its lifespan will decay and servers will shut down in the end while wasting all this hidden and unused potential it could have shown.

I don't know what is wrong with communities nowadays and where it started to crumble, to be honest. It looks like most of their members act like they're born in the wild and their word fights are treated like survival of the fittest, urging to get any attention. If they behave like kids from sandpit, fighting over destroyed sand castle, and vent frustration or impose a line of thought on others, do you think that their words reach developers like they were meant to be sent?

Too many games on the market to choose from and copy & paste "soulless" creations popping like mushrooms after rain, world ongoing with fast pace like it was some kind of a competitive rat race, environments with content to spoil community with "I want this, I need that! I want now! It's just not enough, I want more!" consumptionist attitude.

It's gotten quite big so I'll just leave some final thoughts to consider, also take a note that this post isn't pointed at anyone, it wasn't written to start any flame wars. Treat others the same way you'd like to be treated as there's a short border line. I wouldn't like to cross it or wake up some day to say that I lost my humanity side.

Kind regards!

@Grond Well said.

@Star-Platinum said in If You Put People Down for Having Legitimate Complaints You are Part of the Problem:

The only real outlet for complaints is this forum. Who actually reads random tweets, and reddit will just get you downvoted until you get hidden/deleted. And even then, it's highly unlikely anyone important frequents this forum.

I've only noticed overly aggressive 'white knighters' getting blasted into oblivion. Gate keeping is still gate keeping no matter which direction it is.

Seeing as this if the official forums though, it's more likely SEGA looks at this first than other communities.

I've said this already in another thread and while it is a 'defeatist' attitude, it is only backed by history: We can give as much negative feedback as we like, SEGA will not move from their position. As has been proven in PSU. They add insult to injury with these 'headlines' like they are releasing AAA content that will suddenly suck away 200,000 subscribers from FFXIV or something.

Then theres those that attack you for liking some aspect of a game. I dislike a lot of things about the game, but i dont have to hate all of it if all of it isnt worthy of hate.

Well you cant blame people when they get toxic after the "problems" try to deny the problems.

I mean just look at @El-Zenchi . Banned so many times and proven wrong many more times yet he keeps going on and on and on. Cant blame anyone for being Toxic anymore because people on the internet dont take you serious when youre being the "nice guy". Learned that lesson years ago. I am nice the first and second time but after the 3rd time its not worth it anymore. And most of the time the people i am toxic against are the troublemakers in the first place so i see no reason changing my attitude.

The post of @LusterMain is one of the best examples honestly. No one is complaining that people have fun. However your argument that you have fun does not change the fact that what we "doomsayers" say is true. So going against our arguments with no argument ( no you having fun is no argument) is setting people off like Bombs. Rain Gnyu started this with his: " I like the game so youre wrong " attitude and thats why people told guys using :" i have fun" as a real "argument" to go away.

So no were not being toxic because people like the game or have fun with it. We get toxic when you use that as argument to prove that our complains are wrong and thats a HUGE difference.

I mean the current situation goes so far that even after showing pictures that prove that we are right are seen as fake news and we are still wrong. Player numbers are decreasing heres the picture :" No youre still wrong.". Here even the JP playerbase sees it the same way we do :" No thats normal." NGS is a Beta and not a full release ." Give the game time its still new." But other new games also manage doing better why defend Sega ? :" Well..thats....AH YOU PROMOTE OTHER GAMES F YOU ALL I AM GONNA REPORT YOU FOR GAME ADVERTICEMENT."

And no reporting people for "game adverticement" is not made up by me. The "doomsayers" clearly aint the problem.