Concerning Re-released Content…

Also, as a paying customer who pays for premium every month, I’m very much entitled to give my opinion on these matters. And if the community were to protest by abstaining to give money, then yeah the players would effectively be dictating things. This is true for all things, people vote with their wallets.

Idk about making re releases free because it is going to require some sort of work from them, and if there was a strong enough push for that I feel they’d rather just abandon all the old stuff instead. I think there should at least be a 100/200ac charge or whatever low-mediumish SG amount for the new version if you have the old though, it’s absolutely ridiculous to expect people to gamble for the chance at the exact same item twice

They would abandon remaking outfits for sure instead of just making them free.

@Malphisto said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

Players on a f2p game dont have any say in what should be free in this context. Its not anti consumer to charge for work that youve done. I cant go to my phone store and demand a free upgrade for my phone if theres a pro version that comes out later because I bought said phone of my own volition. The phone still works and can still be used same as how i bought it. Id agree if the old outfits didnt work in ngs, but they do

Actually, that’s not correct. It’s called feedback for a reason. There’s nothing wrong with players offering prescriptive statements on how “Ought” games should be managed. Feedback is encouraged as an industry norm because businesses use such data to make informed decisions for the business.

Hence my Long Term vs. Short Term gains explanation previously.

Im not saying dont give feedback. Im saying you arent entitled to something new being free simply because you have the old version of it. Thats not how this works. They already put in the work FOR FREE to make it so the old outfits even work in ngs in the 1st place. But thats not enough for some people. And if not getting that stuff free turns people off from spending money on others things, see ya o7

And @Weirdo id do the same. I dont work for free nor would I expect them to all the time.

@Malphisto said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

Also, as a paying customer who pays for premium every month, I’m very much entitled to give my opinion on these matters. And if the community were to protest by abstaining to give money, then yeah the players would effectively be dictating things. This is true for all things, people vote with their wallets.

I've spent a frankly disgusting amount of money on this game and agree.

Also I would much rather get NEW cosmetics rather than see the old starter shit (they're literally selling us all the free outfits from pso2, just with finger tech) updated with finger tech get sold to me. The fact you need to gamble for the one you want makes it far worse than it could have been as well.

edit: The combination of the amount of content amounting to a demo and sega trying to re-sell us stuff with as scummy tactics as they have been this entire time (if not scummier, looking at MTN: Hover Photon Dash) means sega deserves this amount of scrutiny and certainly should be rethinking their monetization model.

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@Malphisto said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

Players on a f2p game dont have any say in what should be free in this context. Its not anti consumer to charge for work that youve done. I cant go to my phone store and demand a free upgrade for my phone if theres a pro version that comes out later because I bought said phone of my own volition. The phone still works and can still be used same as how i bought it. Id agree if the old outfits didnt work in ngs, but they do

Actually, that’s not correct. It’s called feedback for a reason. There’s nothing wrong with players offering prescriptive statements on how “Ought” games should be managed. Feedback is encouraged as an industry norm because businesses use such data to make informed decisions for the business.

Hence my Long Term vs. Short Term gains explanation previously.

Im not saying dont give feedback. Im saying you arent entitled to something new being free simply because you have the old version of it. Thats not how this works. They already put in the work FOR FREE to make it so the old outfits even work in ngs in the 1st place. But thats not enough for some people. And if not getting that stuff free turns people off from spending money on others things, see ya o7

And @Weirdo id do the same. I dont work for free nor would I expect them to all the time.

You haven’t given a reason for why SEGA can’t make these free upgrades. I’m very much within my right and have been providing ample reasoning for why NGS variants of pre-existing PSO2 cosmetics should be a free upgrade.

Your logic doesn’t hold up. You can’t counter the logic of the fact SEGA already gives free cosmetics. The people making the items get paid regardless in all instances. It’s the company that sees a hit to their max profit margins. And.a business perspective and Dev perspective, I’ve already given sound reasoning for why the upgrades should be free as an investment for long term gains versus short term.

And no, you people are just wrong. If the upgrades were all being done for free, SEGA wouldn’t just not make them. Your reasoning doesn’t logically follow. NGS has next to no cosmetics, meanwhile PSO2 the base game has years worth of it. Incorporating that content for the NGS Body Model is a long term gains investment measure.

If you disagree, fine. But there’s nothing it it for you to disagree. Nor is there really any good reason to be opposed.

It’s simple, either SEGA only cares about short term gains, in which they would ignore ideas like this because they want to maximize profits even at the expense of potentially either losing players or future sales from said players. Or they have a vested interest in long term gains and so would find ideas like these worthwhile.

Not rocket science. Some companies do actually do stuff like this. For the reasons I’ve explained previously. Whether or not SEGA is going to be one of them, tell will tell. And the community’s response will go towards shaping those decisions.

Also yes, I’m aware of the typos in that post. Again, can’t edit while on tablet.

@Malphisto You speak like you work at Sega/own a business as big as Sega. You dont know the ins and outs nor why they do and dont do certain things so please stop. All youve talked about is what you THINK as have everyone else here. Neither you nor I are more correct than the other. I never said Sega cant give them out for free, I simply said we arent entitled to that which is a fact.

Just because some companies do certain things doesnt mean all companies will. Learn to accept that.

Honestly youre starting to sound like those chicks who stream saying "I have a bio major so you should listen to me". Give it a rest man

Also @IAMCRAIG I cant really call the hover thing scummy as you get 45 other items/each bonus tier along side that. Its not like its just a straight 90$ for that one thing n thats it.

At this point im wondering if folks here would just prefer that the game turned into a subscription based game

Concerning rereleased stuff: imma compare it to booster card packs.

Cards packs periodically bring back old cards in new packs, sometimes with updated art on the card! I rarely hear complaints about old cards being sold again, so why is this situation different?

Prolly because it’s all old stuff? There’s a few items that never saw production on Global, so some of these items could be considered limited imports now! 😄

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

At this point im wondering if folks here would just prefer that the game turned into a subscription based game

Do you want a honest answer ? If a subscription means i get all my outfits reworked free of charge and that all the scummy gambling shit is gone i am all in for that. On top of that there are no excuses anymore for Sega being slow in terms of content becaue we pay them to be fast.

The problem with that sadly is that NGS would lose most of its playerbase. We already lost plenty of people just because of the graphical update so imagine whats gonna happen if Sega would charge money for NGS. Combine that with the current reputation Sega earns with NGS and you can rename NGS into "Wildstar Reborn-to be killed again."

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@Malphisto You speak like you work at Sega/own a business as big as Sega. You dont know the ins and outs nor why they do and dont do certain things so please stop. All youve talked about is what you THINK as have everyone else here. Neither you nor I are more correct than the other.

First off, not an argument. Second, you have no idea what my job is or my level of education. You can try to refute the things I’ve said but you haven’t. Third, the reason you won’t be able to refute any of it is because, unlike you, I actually know what I’m talking about with all this.

So yes, I am objectively more correct than you. I don’t need to work specifically at SEGA to know how basic economics work. Or how to design games. Or how businesses operate within free market capitalism. Or the history of practices within the industry.

Also the takeaway keeps going over your head. Citing other companies as doing X is meant to illustrate to you that SEGA can also do X. That there isn’t some magical rule dictating they can’t do X. There are some people in here, yourself included, who act like such concepts are impossible. Like you can’t fathom it. So instead you do this weird behavior of acting like keyboard warriors trying to defend the company. Super cringe, by the way.

But no, it very much is a possibility. And myself and others are making the prescriptivist statement that they should (Ought) do it. My reasoning has been repeated ad nauseam, I’m not going to keep going over it. And if the discourse here has devolved to the extent of trying to hand waive everything I’ve said by trying to pretend I’m not giving solid points to support my position? Then any further discussion is just a waste.

If you want to do the agree to disagree route, that’s fine. But then just say that instead of trying to imply I’m being dishonest with the things I’ve said here.

@Malphisto Never said Sega cant. Please quote where I said that. Im saying as ive said numerous times, I dont expect them to nor are players entitled to it. What part of that arent you getting? If me saying its ok for a company to charge for work theyve done makes me a keyboard warrior then that term (along with the term "cringe") has lost all its meaning.

You also speak of me not refuting what you said...because that was never the point of my posts. Youre on a high horse and need to get off of it. Its not needed nor warranted. (Nice job not quoting the full post btw seeing as there I said "just because some companies do certain things doesnt mean all companies will". Again you arent in the Sega offices making decisions nor is there just 1 way to go about garnering business. So take that pompous "unlike you, I know what im talking about" mess elsewhere please.

If you want Sega to do that why say it here? Should that not be in the suggestions tab?

@Malphisto said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@Knight-Raime Na, I did respond to you, just not directly because your first post didn’t come off as being in good faith. And every post you’ve made since just reinforces that opinion of you.

Giving an excuse for you not responding to my first reply doesn't change the fact that you didn't respond to it. Nor does it change that your response to my others was clearly a decision to attack myself instead of the points I made.

For starters, your first post made the assumption everything was revolving around the current AC Scratchers. Your stunningly pretentious attitude and cringeworthy virtue signaling with the fake outrage wasn’t even the part that turned me off to you, it was the fact you outright lied. The fantasy narrative in your head apparently got the better of you as you claimed the 4 scratchers were “specifically brought back with new players in mind who didn't play PSO2 base.”

You literally can't say that I was saying everything revolves around the new scratches and then acknowledge later in this very response that I also talked about the renewal scratches. Also you can't accuse me of lying and then not back that up. It was my assumption that the 4 scratches they dropped were specifically for new players because none of the items were updated to NGS stuff. Sega hasn't made any sort of statement that would support or disprove that. So the only thing you've accomplished in this segment is just more fluff that's attacking me instead of arguing about any of the points i've made.

Specifically? No sweetie, they weren’t. Not in the Announcements or Twitter did SEGA say anywhere these scratchers were “specifically” meant for anyone, let alone new players. That’s just you trying to astro turf for a fake emotional response from anyone gullible enough to fall for your B List Debate Tactics.

No, it's a logical assumption based on how the items came to us. Just because their twitter didn't say what I assumed doesn't mean i'm lying.

To your credit, you did have the INT Saving Throw to at least also bring up the Oracle Renewal Collection, but my god your thought process was mind numbing; “If you're talking about the oracle renewal scratches where they bring in the outfits/basewear back into NGS and be updated to NGS bodies also shove off. Those are specifically being remade from scratch.”

And? So? This means literally nothing. CD Projekt Red put out fully voice acted Story Content for free for the The Witcher 3. Not even a F2P. You realize me saying this is a silver bullet that torpedoes all of your arguments, right?

Ah yes, because another company does something different this company is in the wrong. And you accuse me of mental gymnastics.

And I don’t even need that. Those event Cosmetics? Yeppers, made from scratch too. SEGA just gave those out for free. Did SEGA take a hit to their profits? YEP. They could monetize literally everything and anything in this game. But they don’t. Weird, huh? It’s almost like there’s business incentives to do so outside of accruing revenue. Oh hey, lookie there, Malphisto actually already detailed the reasons for why Devs do such practices in the industry. Weird how you conveniently ignored all that.

I really don't see how anyone can rationally think that because some things can be given for free that means everything can/should.

And then your final point in that first post as the cherry on top; “If you cared about an item/liked an item so much that you felt okay spending cash on it”

This line right here? Evidence that my point went so over your head that it was truly not worth it for me to respond to you. Because the point wasn’t that I didn’t want others to have access to past content, my beef was that the “limited time” gimmick imposed upon me a concern that if I failed to get the items at that time, I’d never have another chance, hence I felt PRESSURED into spending money as opposed to grinding to acquire the Meseta. But you were so hyper fixated on your high horse ranting that you apparently couldn’t process any of this.

Ah yes, you're so totally big brained that you've had to explain things out to a small brained person like me so you've got to hide behind giant walls of text where half of it is spent attacking me instead of my argument. Silly me. Also you can't really say "not worth responding" yet you've chosen to anyway. I don't see why you'd feel pressured. base PSO2 clearly established in more than one instance with more than one way that items can and have returned before.

Let’s dissect the rest of your recent bad takes, this is fun. “FUN items are clearly below in terms of quality for cosmetics.” Bzzt, irrelevant. Any and all cosmetics require labor to create, which means SEGA is paying Devs to code and render content with no intent to see a monetary gain off of said cosmetics.

“Setting them on the same table as AC items just to hamstring an argument” It’s ok, I know it feels bad not to have an actual counter argument. Your internal logic is being tested but you’re too stubborn to just take the L and admit your perception is wrong. It’s easier for you to recoil at the whole thing and try to avoid it altogether.

This is lest dissecting and more just taking pot shots at me instead of my arguments. Your favorite Witcher game has both free and paid dlc. Clearly free and paid cosmetics can exist. One is deemed more valuable than the other. That's all there is to it.

Now your brain is doing these mental gymnastics trying to impose a vague scale of value between FUN Scratch and AC Scratch Cosmetics, but in reality that’s a moot point. You were the one trying to insist that the redone PSO2 Cosmetics for NGS “must cost money and should not be given out for free to those who already own the PSO2 version.”

I wasn't arguing that all cosmetics should cost money. That's you making assumptions based off of my statements.

There is a fundamental question you aren’t asking yourself. COULD the NGS versions be given out as a free upgrade? Yes. There’s nothing in the universe dictating SEGA lock those versions off behind a paywall. Just like with Event and FUN Cosmetics, SEGA chooses what to provide for free. If they made the NGS Variants as a free conversion for players who previously already owned said PSO2 Cosmetics, that’s both A) within their right to do so, B) is something they could easily afford doing, C) wouldn’t be more impressive than what other Devs have just given out for free in other games, and D) I’ve already laid perfectly sound reasoning from a business owner’s perspective for why the company would want to do something like that.

Actually I already some what addressed this. I stated that if the devs gave you free access to said cosmetics because you got them in base that not only circumvents the gaccha system which a lot of the game's systems are built upon, but it would encourage new players to go play what is considered old content in order to get easier access to newer cosmetics. Which they probably don't want.

I’m sorry, all of your talking points are really just you spouting hot air. And if you wanted a nicer response from me? You get what you give. I don’t feel sorry in the least for you.

Anyway, that was enjoyable. Time for bed. Toodles~

Go touch some grass man.

@IAMCRAIG

Regarding the $90 dollar part I don't see how that's more or less scummy than what they did in the past. NGS isn't the first existence of them locking things people would really like to have behind the bonus prizes for scratching a lot. Motions are the big ticket seller things in NGS to Sega. That's why they've put so much emphasis on things as simple as hand gestures when they were teasing NGS with us. So it only makes sense that they'ed lock some of the motions behind lots of pulling.

I also don't really think scummy is the right descriptor. Scummy to me implies you're being cheated or something. You're still getting items for those pulls. I'd say a better descriptor would be greedy.

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

Players on a f2p game dont have any say in what should be free in this context. Its not anti consumer to charge for work that youve done. I cant go to my phone store and demand a free upgrade for my phone if theres a pro version that comes out later because I bought said phone of my own volition. The phone still works and can still be used same as how i bought it. Id agree if the old outfits didnt work in ngs, but they do

It does seem a bit different when the items in question are from character creation. You'd assume the new versions would be made available alongside their older versions.