Concerning Re-released Content…

@Malphisto Then heres hoping Sega wises up and gives us free cosmetic upgrades in the future for every piece of layer wear/costumes we get from the original game.

Why not put this in the suggestions tab? Im sure itll catch fire

@XenoBladeX37645 definitely people been there and done that already, several months before NGS even came out

@HarmlessSyan Then that tells me its not going to happen. I for one am fine with the other freebies they give us like sg n such. I dont need the outfits to be free upgrades nor will I complain that they arent.

The Mission Pass technically had free outfits because you could obtain the Gold version with SG and it wasn’t some ungodly amount so it was fairly easy to obtain every month. I did that, because even if I buy AC I can count on one hand how many times I actually paid for SG because you got less for your money. FF was a lot more steep of a price, an outfit cost 400SG so you basically had to hope for the log in bonus campaigns and hold on to it.

I don’t recall many outfits directly just given to us, though.

Blade & Soul is another example I can think of that weren’t very generous with free outfits, and honestly made it difficult to obtain outfits in general. You were rarely given an outfit, rather you were given basically a scratch ticket, just a taste of that gambling pleasure. They sure as heck weren’t giving those out for generosity, they were doing it to get more players hooked on scratch tickets.

Game companies will throw players a bone to make them quiet and content but there’s always a motive behind it. What benefit does SEGA have to redo all of the outfits? It’s just too much work for not enough benefit for them. Players will gripe but they’ll pay anyway.

I would like my outfits updated, though.

@Reiven said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

I suggested some time ago that those who already purchased said cosmetic on base get the option to "upgrade" to the NGS counterpart at the cost of either AC/SG or even both, with the costs varying depending on which currency you chose to use. That way, it doesn't COMPLETELY feel like Sega is not respecting their customers monetary and time investment by slapping them in the face by making them do gacha, AGAIN, for items they already have, just with updated textures. (However, it does seem for now that what is being released is old PSO2 items, on NGS. I guess as a way from those who missed out the first time to have a go at obtaining those items).

Like in all honesty, I do not have much from PSO base as I am mostly a freemium player, and I missed out on A LOT due to life being life, but if Sega made available to me the option of upgrading what I DO already own at a flat AC or SG cost, I would more than happily throw my money their way.

Would have been nice if the existing cosmetics were upgraded to be compatible with NGS bodies while maintaining backwards compatibility with PSO2 cutscenes.

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@Knight-Raime

I really dislike the excuse with the "new body model".

Let me ask you this in a different way: " Why should Sega earn money for Updated Outfits when all other developers update THE WHOLE GAME when it is updated ? "

There is no excuse and they did update the game with the base engine upgrade on top of giving us NGS as a new game. if NGS didn't exist and we got EP 7 instead recharging people for updated cosmetics would be scummy. But that's not what happened here.

@Malphisto said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@Knight-Raime A shining example of someone with no argument. I’ll make an exception this time. So in case anyone else was wondering, this is called a Strawman. Rather than actually responding to the points I’ve made, this Knight-Raime person instead constructs a Strawman to focus on instead, which in this case is them using their ESP Powers to divine my TRUE intentions of just wanting free stuff. Either they read my other posts and are deliberately disregarding all the points I’ve laid out, or they legit just skip over reading my posts cause they don’t care to read them, yet they’re invested enough to respond to others for the sake of pushing their Strawman narrative which one would think is borderline harassment at this point.

I don’t know this person outside this thread. This is definitely Bad Faith behavior, though. You can disagree with me, that’s perfectly fine. But you can do so without ascribing secret ulterior motives to me. Like anyone can play that game to dismiss others, for example, I could accuse Raime of being some paid shill or some working at the company. But Malphisto, that’s clearly on assumption! Yep, sure is, which is why you don’t make them.

That being said, let’s entertain this weird reaction to perceived free stuff. Fun Shop is essentially all free stuff. You’re not spending a dime for it, those items can only be acquired by using FUN Points which you get just from playing the game. Cool, right? But SEGA isn’t making any profit off of those. Devs obviously had to create said items. What reason is there for SEGA to do this? I can assure you, it’s not out of some altruistic reasoning. For a business, everything is calculated. Even for when CDPR gave free Story DLC for The Witcher 3.

It’s not just money companies are interested in. Customer Loyalty is another metric of business. Does SEGA take a hit with FUN Scratch cosmetics? You bet they do. But it was an investment for long term gains. And that’s the actual conversation, not this hyper fixation on “lulz bro, just wants free stuff” trolling.

I actually did respond to your original thread post. You ignored it and took the easy response to call out me calling out your behavior. Get off your high horse. FUN items are clearly below in terms of quality for cosmetics. Setting them on the same table as AC items just to hamstring an argument about the concept of free items in general is just hilarious. I have nothing against free cosmetics. I have something against asking the devs to give you free things because you spent money on it once. I have a problem with you pretending you're some game dev that gets to decide how much actual work/effort is put into bringing up an item to work with a new model. I have a problem with how self righteous you believe yourself to be in your opinion.

@Knight-Raime

That argument only works for stand alone games. NGS however is within PSo2 and vice versa. So as you said :" It is scummy."

@Malphisto said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

It’s kind of annoying that they bring these cosmetics back out. I don’t consider myself a whale, but I did spend a good deal of time and money to get these the first time they came out. They do the limited time nonsense as a gimmick, making you think you better get the things while available because the implied intent there from SEGA is if you miss out, you’re screwed. As opposed to them just leaving these draws up indefinitely.

Now? They bring them out again, and I assume these versions will be usable with the NGS Body Model. Kay. Cool. What about those of us who already got them? Do you expect us to buy the same cosmetic item 4 times? The fact old cosmetics weren’t applicable with the NGS Body Model is what prompted me to not convert my 14 characters to the new body type. Because that would make all my pre-existing cosmetics worthless. Again, I’m not a whale, I can’t afford to just waste money and time like that. I’m very specific with the items I go after. I get SEGA wants more money from me, so they want me to use the new body type. But this isn’t the way to do it. This just makes me feel like I’m being taken advantage of along with others. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I assume players who already own said revival cosmetics won’t be able to just use what they already have on the NGS Body. We’re going to be expected to get duplicates of cosmetics we already own. That’s beyond disgusting, I’m real sorry. While I can appreciate wanting to give new players a chance to get the items they see veteran players wearing, it’s being done in the worst way possible.

Just voicing my thoughts. Don’t alienate your player base. There are plenty of ways to make money while simultaneously demonstrating that you actually care about your fans. And even though it is a free game, the players are the game’s life blood. Keep this fact in mind.

Spot on, pretty much how I feel about this situation.

Any item that is being rereleased for NGS body types should be free to those who had already bought them in base PSO2.

I get it, Sega need to make money from the game, but they are easily making more than enough money to keep this game up and running for years to come, it's just that these companies aren't satisified unless they are draining people's bank accounts. Players have become so used to these anti consumer business practices that they end up jumping to the defence of these companies when you suggest ways that improve things for the players.

People just need to stop defending them, you deserve better.

@Gilver-Redgrave

No, you're just splitting hairs. You and others cannot call base pso2 the same game as NGS and then also claim that base pso2 is dead and ignored by the devs. Even if Base wasn't being killed off slowly NGS is still fundamentally a different game. So you're argument doesn't hold ground either way.

@HermitST

There are several problems with what you've quoted:

  1. the first section about the return of limited items is problematic. The whole goal of Gacha style mechanics is to encourage players to spend money on something. This can be done a number of ways. It's fine to not like the idea of something being called limited and then it comes back. However, base PSO2 has already shown us that things frequently return. So the poster should already be aware that items will return. While scratch tickets do not stay up indefinitely there is never any statement to them that they will not return in some form and the tickets on the sites themselves for NGS specifically state that the items may return in the future. So, you can't really claim to be in the dark or mislead.

. The poster states old cosmetics have lost value because they cannot be used on NGS bodies. However the only reason to move to an NGS body is if you want to take advantage of a few new options for editing your body, and being able to use finger poses. PSO2 cosmetics of any kind can still be used inside NGS and still appear in NGS cutscenes. Some of the cosmetics like face paint and accessories can even have their color changed and dictate how prominent the face paint looks (faded or not on a slider.) Which were not options before NGS.

Motion type editing also exists and works for base pso2 bodies. If you're someone who highly cares about how your character looks sure, you can argue that not being able to immediately use the cosmetics you might've spent years getting sucks a little. But it's a big stretch to say not updating them to the NGS body completely kills any value they have. That particular angle also works against itself though. As you're both assigning a lot of value to said item but massively undervaluing it.

"Cosmetics we already own" is a very misleading statement and goes into the argument about worth/effort. Which is a poor argument to begin with. We don't own the updated cosmetics. We own the version that was created specifically for base pso2. Despite NGS having PSO2 in it's title it's not apart of the base game. It has very little if anything to do with it. They simply share the same launcher. Because the NGS body is brand new with different mechanics attached to it the old cosmetics won't work on it. They have to nearly work from scratch in order to create an updated version of said cosmetic. Now would I like a way to direct purchase the cosmetic's updated version? Sure. But that circumvents the gaccha system and also encourages people to play base pso2 in order to get free/easier access cosmetics in the newest game. Which is understandably not something they want new players to go through.

"Don’t alienate your player base. There are plenty of ways to make money while simultaneously demonstrating that you actually care about your fans. And even though it is a free game, the players are the game’s life blood. Keep this fact in mind."

This is probably the most irritating line that was stated. The devs showed they cared about their fans by allowing anything to carry over in the first place. They took great care of respecting player investment by allowing your character to transfer over. By allowing you to edit said character at the start without having to spend anything. They bothered to convert old gear from base so it can be used effectively letting veteran players (god I hate that term) have a head start with gear compared to a fresh player. I think it's gross to say that Sega and the team didn't care about their consumers just because they didn't do everything players wanted.

All players are this game's life blood. Not only people who whale. Not only people who spend money sometimes. Not only F2P players that advertise the game to get their friends to join. Everyone's important. And any suggestion that's usually made in regards to these things specifically wants to limit/take away things from people who actually pay to play the game. The OP pretends that if players like him are not catered to the game will crash. Well guess what? If me spending my money gets punished why would I spend money on the game?

Sega isn't alienating people who bought stuff before. Everyone who's been playing with PSO2 at least as long as global has been around is very aware of how things are ran. You don't have to like it. You don't have to interact with it if you don't want to. But you don't get to call Sega greedy when you're the one asking for hand outs just because you've spent money before. It is as i've mentioned already in this thread. OP already felt they deserved what they want. Everything else being stated here is just them reasoning themselves into said position.

@Knight-Raime

Youre being desperate now.

First off all does re-releasing stuff and selling it have nothing to do with the Devs ignoring old content and secondly Sega upgraded both versions. However Sega on purpose did not upgrade the old Outfits despite them upgrading base PSO2 aswell. Its the same game. Both run on the same server and the saame system and even the same coding. Its one game only being split by a teleporter.

@Knight-Raime Na, I did respond to you, just not directly because your first post didn’t come off as being in good faith. And every post you’ve made since just reinforces that opinion of you.

For starters, your first post made the assumption everything was revolving around the current AC Scratchers. Your stunningly pretentious attitude and cringeworthy virtue signaling with the fake outrage wasn’t even the part that turned me off to you, it was the fact you outright lied. The fantasy narrative in your head apparently got the better of you as you claimed the 4 scratchers were “specifically brought back with new players in mind who didn't play PSO2 base.”

Specifically? No sweetie, they weren’t. Not in the Announcements or Twitter did SEGA say anywhere these scratchers were “specifically” meant for anyone, let alone new players. That’s just you trying to astro turf for a fake emotional response from anyone gullible enough to fall for your B List Debate Tactics.

To your credit, you did have the INT Saving Throw to at least also bring up the Oracle Renewal Collection, but my god your thought process was mind numbing; “If you're talking about the oracle renewal scratches where they bring in the outfits/basewear back into NGS and be updated to NGS bodies also shove off. Those are specifically being remade from scratch.”

And? So? This means literally nothing. CD Projekt Red put out fully voice acted Story Content for free for the The Witcher 3. Not even a F2P. You realize me saying this is a silver bullet that torpedoes all of your arguments, right?

And I don’t even need that. Those event Cosmetics? Yeppers, made from scratch too. SEGA just gave those out for free. Did SEGA take a hit to their profits? YEP. They could monetize literally everything and anything in this game. But they don’t. Weird, huh? It’s almost like there’s business incentives to do so outside of accruing revenue. Oh hey, lookie there, Malphisto actually already detailed the reasons for why Devs do such practices in the industry. Weird how you conveniently ignored all that.

And then your final point in that first post as the cherry on top; “If you cared about an item/liked an item so much that you felt okay spending cash on it”

This line right here? Evidence that my point went so over your head that it was truly not worth it for me to respond to you. Because the point wasn’t that I didn’t want others to have access to past content, my beef was that the “limited time” gimmick imposed upon me a concern that if I failed to get the items at that time, I’d never have another chance, hence I felt PRESSURED into spending money as opposed to grinding to acquire the Meseta. But you were so hyper fixated on your high horse ranting that you apparently couldn’t process any of this.

And don’t pretend I haven’t further clarified said first post of mine in here, cause that’s usually the next place people who come in acting like you did will retreat to with me.

Let’s dissect the rest of your recent bad takes, this is fun. “FUN items are clearly below in terms of quality for cosmetics.” Bzzt, irrelevant. Any and all cosmetics require labor to create, which means SEGA is paying Devs to code and render content with no intent to see a monetary gain off of said cosmetics.

Seriously, what kind of failed Motte and Bailey is that? lol

“Setting them on the same table as AC items just to hamstring an argument” It’s ok, I know it feels bad not to have an actual counter argument. Your internal logic is being tested but you’re too stubborn to just take the L and admit your perception is wrong. It’s easier for you to recoil at the whole thing and try to avoid it altogether.

Now your brain is doing these mental gymnastics trying to impose a vague scale of value between FUN Scratch and AC Scratch Cosmetics, but in reality that’s a moot point. You were the one trying to insist that the redone PSO2 Cosmetics for NGS “must cost money and should not be given out for free to those who already own the PSO2 version.”

There is a fundamental question you aren’t asking yourself. COULD the NGS versions be given out as a free upgrade? Yes. There’s nothing in the universe dictating SEGA lock those versions off behind a paywall. Just like with Event and FUN Cosmetics, SEGA chooses what to provide for free. If they made the NGS Variants as a free conversion for players who previously already owned said PSO2 Cosmetics, that’s both A) within their right to do so, B) is something they could easily afford doing, C) wouldn’t be more impressive than what other Devs have just given out for free in other games, and D) I’ve already laid perfectly sound reasoning from a business owner’s perspective for why the company would want to do something like that.

I’m sorry, all of your talking points are really just you spouting hot air. And if you wanted a nicer response from me? You get what you give. I don’t feel sorry in the least for you.

Anyway, that was enjoyable. Time for bed. Toodles~

@HermitST said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

@Malphisto said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

It’s kind of annoying that they bring these cosmetics back out. I don’t consider myself a whale, but I did spend a good deal of time and money to get these the first time they came out. They do the limited time nonsense as a gimmick, making you think you better get the things while available because the implied intent there from SEGA is if you miss out, you’re screwed. As opposed to them just leaving these draws up indefinitely.

Now? They bring them out again, and I assume these versions will be usable with the NGS Body Model. Kay. Cool. What about those of us who already got them? Do you expect us to buy the same cosmetic item 4 times? The fact old cosmetics weren’t applicable with the NGS Body Model is what prompted me to not convert my 14 characters to the new body type. Because that would make all my pre-existing cosmetics worthless. Again, I’m not a whale, I can’t afford to just waste money and time like that. I’m very specific with the items I go after. I get SEGA wants more money from me, so they want me to use the new body type. But this isn’t the way to do it. This just makes me feel like I’m being taken advantage of along with others. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I assume players who already own said revival cosmetics won’t be able to just use what they already have on the NGS Body. We’re going to be expected to get duplicates of cosmetics we already own. That’s beyond disgusting, I’m real sorry. While I can appreciate wanting to give new players a chance to get the items they see veteran players wearing, it’s being done in the worst way possible.

Just voicing my thoughts. Don’t alienate your player base. There are plenty of ways to make money while simultaneously demonstrating that you actually care about your fans. And even though it is a free game, the players are the game’s life blood. Keep this fact in mind.

Spot on, pretty much how I feel about this situation.

Any item that is being rereleased for NGS body types should be free to those who had already bought them in base PSO2.

I get it, Sega need to make money from the game, but they are easily making more than enough money to keep this game up and running for years to come, it's just that these companies aren't satisified unless they are draining people's bank accounts. Players have become so used to these anti consumer business practices that they end up jumping to the defence of these companies when you suggest ways that improve things for the players.

People just need to stop defending them, you deserve better.

I can see people being indifferent to it, you know. Like “Eh, if it’s free or not, I don’t really care.” It’s the ones who battle against the proposition itself that boggle my mind. Like what do they get out of being contrarian about this stuff? It’s not like they’re going to see any profits from those sales, lol.

Players on a f2p game dont have any say in what should be free in this context. Its not anti consumer to charge for work that youve done. I cant go to my phone store and demand a free upgrade for my phone if theres a pro version that comes out later because I bought said phone of my own volition. The phone still works and can still be used same as how i bought it. Id agree if the old outfits didnt work in ngs, but they do

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Concerning Re-released Content…:

Players on a f2p game dont have any say in what should be free in this context. Its not anti consumer to charge for work that youve done. I cant go to my phone store and demand a free upgrade for my phone if theres a pro version that comes out later because I bought said phone of my own volition. The phone still works and can still be used same as how i bought it. Id agree if the old outfits didnt work in ngs, but they do

Actually, that’s not correct. It’s called feedback for a reason. There’s nothing wrong with players offering prescriptive statements on how “Ought” games should be managed. Feedback is encouraged as an industry norm because businesses use such data to make informed decisions for the business.

Hence my Long Term vs. Short Term gains explanation previously.