Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA

@Mattwo7 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@UneasyCheese8 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

For the PC release, Which is it? I just want confirmation on if you have a date but aren't allowed to tell us or if you yourselves haven't been told yet.

If they have a date and can't tell us, they can't tell us. Don't take a lack of reply as confirmation as they're not going to tell us either way.

see, what I'm asking them isn't technically outside of the realm of what they can answer.

I don't see them getting into trouble for saying "Yes we have a date but we cannot tell you" or "Yeah we don't know anything either."

@LockeKosta said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

To preface this before all the white knights and confirmation biased "It's only beta though" excusers come flocking to their defense, I've tried really hard to give the benefit of the doubt. I work in game development. I know how difficult bringing the game over to the west is. I understand how alphas, betas, MVPs, etc work. And I'm not telling people that they shouldn't support or play the game. Hell, I'm still going to play it - just going to financially support significantly less or not at all.

The reason being because it's undeniable that Sega and the devs in charge don't actually care about the NA version of PSO 2. There's too much evidence of laziness and lack of forethought to ignore.

  1. The utterly terrible communication.

From promoting bundles days before telling us what premium and mission tickets even were - which didn't happen until mere hours of the game launching (yes, this is a soft launch and you're in utter denial if you think otherwise) to until announcing 5 hour maintenance times the day-of. The communication has been atrocious.

Hell, one of the 5 posts that went up barely an hour of two before the game went live was clearly written to be posted days beforehand - notifying people of the 16th's predownload time when it was posted the afternoon of the 17th. There was no reason not to dribble those information posts out daily instead of waiting until the last minute. But no consideration to basic common sense was clearly given.

Then there's whole maintenance fiasco we just went through. I get that it's being handled by JP devs who operate on JP time and that maybethey wanted their maintance team to handle both versions at the same time. Okay, cool. This is literally called the NA version though. Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to go, "Hey guys, maybe we should let people know well in advance that they won't be able to play during the hours we tend to have THE MOST PLAYERS online at any given time." Again though, no attempt at forethought or the concern for the player base was given.

JP gets full live streams and clearly laid out plans and schedules in advance. NA can't even get a tweet 24 hours ahead of time.

  1. No thought/consideration was put into the content that's in the game.

I know most players won't realize this, but the two strongest weapon lines in the game right now - the ones that you're rewarded with if you really sink your teeth into the game and grind - can't be used to their fullest potential. To utilize their best potential abilities you need arena boosters, which aren't in the game at all! This means that you either have to upgrade a shittier version of the weapon to use it - that you can't go back and correct later - or that you can't enhance and use the weapon you've spent likely spent most of your time and resources grinding for.

It's a very simple thing to go, "Hey, let's put arena boosters in some of the other shops or just change the upgrade requirement." But yet again, 0 fucks, forethought or consideration has been given.

On another note, did you know that the UQs in the schedule have been running since day 1 of launch? They're not special. They weren't added at maintenance. The three listed in the schedule aren't even the best ones to run right now and you can get better XP and drops from running Advanced Quests if you know what you're doing. They're being made to look more important and event-like than they are to appease players and make it seems like more work is being put into this than is actually happening. Which, honestly, I wouldn't even bring up and I'd let slide if it weren't for everything else on top of it - as it stands, it's just another point of proof that they don't care about NA.

Then there's the economy blunders - like the Xbox Game Pass. I took one glance at that and told my Alliance exactly how it'd impact the market and how to take advantage of it. It doesn't take a genius to realize that you giving out 12 AC tickets and premium to the vast majority of players will tank the AC item economy. I will give kudos to the dev and management team for catching the mistake pretty quickly. But it's also mistake that shouldn't have been made if you care about your game's health more than just the money you can potentially generate. And the process of correcting the mistake has been laughably piss poor too.

There's more I could say and point out, but I won't keep harping on it. What I've pointed out already is evidence enough to prove the assertion, and I know this will mostly fall on deaf ears anyway. I'm not mad, I'm just saddened because I was hoping this version of the game would be taken at least somewhat seriously by SEGA and the dev team. The MMORPG market is in shambles for a variety of reasons and I was hoping this would at least be a shining light for NA during dark times.

Instead it's an afterthought of a product. Which really sucks to see cause it wouldn't take much more effort for it to be more than than. And NA deserves better than that. There are legit NA players and fans who deserve a product that isn't a back-burner side project.

Like I said, I'll still play. Hell, it's free and the core gameplay loop is still great. And anything is fun when it brings friends together you can shoot the shit with. But seeing what I'm seeing makes any further financial support or recommendations to others just feel bad. And I just wanted to put that out into the ether in case by some remote chance it made decision-makers in this situation actually think twice about what they're doing and how they're going about doing it.

Sighs damn it, and me without any caramel popcorn. Which I gotta order online cuz of Corona. >.>

@UneasyCheese8 , you need to understand the extent NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreements) go. Sometimes the exact inner workings of a company also fall under that. In my humble opinino, some previous language used indicates that they don't have the date and are awaiting for details on the PC version from SEGA Games (SEGA of Japan).

@Leonkh99 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@UneasyCheese8 , you need to understand the extent NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreements) go. Sometimes the exact inner workings of a company also fall under that. In my humble opinino, some previous language used indicates that they don't have the date and are awaiting for details on the PC version from SEGA Games (SEGA of Japan).

yeah, most NDAs that marketing staff have to agree to is to not even hint about whether or not they have info about something or not, if they are asked directly. That is how NDAs typically are lately, at least. They can drop subtle hints without revealing anything, though, like their Soon™ before OBT.

@UneasyCheese8 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@Mattwo7 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@UneasyCheese8 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

For the PC release, Which is it? I just want confirmation on if you have a date but aren't allowed to tell us or if you yourselves haven't been told yet.

If they have a date and can't tell us, they can't tell us. Don't take a lack of reply as confirmation as they're not going to tell us either way.

see, what I'm asking them isn't technically outside of the realm of what they can answer.

I don't see them getting into trouble for saying "Yes we have a date but we cannot tell you" or "Yeah we don't know anything either."

I don't think you really understand the paradox you're trying to create here. If they can't tell us if they have a date, then they can't tell us if they have a date and your attempt at fudging logic isn't going to change that. If they could tell us, they would have done so already.

@Toy-Soldier-Ken said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@LockeKosta I'll stick with what I said. Just because everything isn't going how we hoped or whatever, doesn't mean they don't care about us at all. Gaming is a business, and has been that way. So I never said you were wrong or right. I just said this was an opinion. All I know is I am having fun playing this game with my IRL and gaming friends.

A lot of people argued that there was no need for a beta and they should just go to full release. That has proven to be false. They needed the BETA. I think most of these drawn out posts come down to those not being able to play right now, vs those that can. Regardless of the history and present scenarios.

You're good. I was being sincere with what I said. I didn't think you were dogging my opinion or anything. I just wanted to point out that I provided more than the average REEEEEEE opinion people often give when they're irritated or disappointed. But I do agree it's just my outlook and I hope no one took it as fact.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

I agree with many points but won't take the time to reference what I do and don't agree with.

The greatest evidence that JP isn't really willing to work with us is the maintenance window and not allowing the community team to inform us of anything tangible.

While in this "build up" phase of creating a larger player base, having the game suddenly not available to connect to during prime gaming hours is not a good model.

Not communicating timelines is also not a good practice when trying to attract more people to the game. SEGA has 100% distance themselves from the play base and put the burden on another entity while also trying their hands.

I enjoy this game, have been waiting for a long time and want it to succeed, but if you lack the ability to put yourself in a new player's shoes, you can't really comment on how well this release is going so far. (General statement to people who pretend everything is fantastic and are just grateful to be able to play)

SEGA wants the commitment of our money, but we really need to see some better commitment practices from SEGA in return.

I agree and that's pretty much where I'm at too, which is a shame because I do want to support the game more but I don't want to reward or encourage the behavior either. We vote with our wallets, and I spent $70 to say, "Yes, I want an NA PSO 2." But I can't keep voting to say, "You're doing right by us" with the various red flags I'm seeing. To be fair, there's plenty of time to turn it around, I'm still playing a ridiculous amount, but I need to see some sincere course correction.

@AndrlCh said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

"Spring" for game releases is April, May, and June, so technically we haven't even entered it yet.

Spring in business terms, which is what is intended when you see those sorts of dates, does include the last half of March. Of course, the beginning of a season is generally accepted as out of the question when using such a broad term, but just so you are aware, it does in fact include the last half of March.

@Caeles-Messorem said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

Haven't similar issues occurred with previous iterations of PSO coming from East to West before? I feel like it's the same circumstance, just a different game. While I love that the game is playable on console now, I can't necessarily say I'm excited at yet another potential instance of:

  • weeks/ months/ years behind JP content
  • large windows between content/ fix patches
  • low involvement of the devs with the NA community

Whether Open Beta or Soft Launch, it's still pretty easy to see something of a rough path ahead. Keep in mind, I'm saying this from the perspective of someone (similar to many of you, I'm sure) that has played EP. 1 & 2, BB, PSU/ PSU: AotI and PSO2 JP (from launch).

I just think more communication between JP/ NA and Devs/Players would do a world of good right now.

Whether it's been done before or not does not excuse the mistakes being made. If anything, it makes them worse and accepting anti-consumer practices due to frequency only leads to a worsening situation. One minute you're up in arms about horse armor DLC, the next minute you're happy it's "just cosmetic". I'm speaking broadly here to make a point.

@UneasyCheese8 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@Mattwo7 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@UneasyCheese8 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

For the PC release, Which is it? I just want confirmation on if you have a date but aren't allowed to tell us or if you yourselves haven't been told yet.

If they have a date and can't tell us, they can't tell us. Don't take a lack of reply as confirmation as they're not going to tell us either way.

see, what I'm asking them isn't technically outside of the realm of what they can answer.

I don't see them getting into trouble for saying "Yes we have a date but we cannot tell you" or "Yeah we don't know anything either."

What you're asking IS outside of the realm of what they can answer and is still asking for a breach of NDA at the very least if it is the case, like @Leonkh99 and @Ragnawind said. Implicitly breaking NDA is still breaking NDA, and that's a quick way to get fired, sued and/or never be able to work in certain industries ever again - especially the games industry.

I didnt play the previous games aside from pso1 for like 1 week with my old friend. I was young so I never put much thought into it. I cant say I disagree or agree regarding the fact NA will be getting the sharp side of the blade.

I agree that so far it seems that the NA servers arent getting a lot of priority. I doubt they wanted to really release the game in NA period. I wanted pso2 but I never thought it would make it for this very reason. Now that its released you can quite LITERALLY see how different the communication is compared to the way they do the JP servers. This is really messed up because they have a high fanbase on the NA servers on xbox and ps4 (although ps4 has the option to do jp). It causes nothing but worry. Not to mention wouldnt a DEV reply to a mass thread like this? They havent, a forum staff just said "yeah we take ideas and reports on bugs" I for one saw tera do this although its an entirely different game, they released a lot on it in beta, added a ton when it was working fine, took years to do all this and now inevitably does NOTHING for the server, its a dead game, its dry, and honestly have the right to be sued for issuing a game, keeping it running and leaving it there to rot for people that are gullible enough to think its a well played game on consoles.

I disagree Because and only because of COVID-19. They might be having more issues than we thought regarding the virus and are working around that. They could also have people affected by it and cannot work from home etc. but they could announce a thing like that. We were left blind. Without a doubt I enjoy this game, and it CAN legit become one of the most played games quicker than anyone might think but only if they GIVE A DAMN. They hardly reply to anything and its got fans worried. I'll wait an see but god im praying its actually getting their love.

@Ragnawind said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@Leonkh99 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@UneasyCheese8 , you need to understand the extent NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreements) go. Sometimes the exact inner workings of a company also fall under that. In my humble opinino, some previous language used indicates that they don't have the date and are awaiting for details on the PC version from SEGA Games (SEGA of Japan).

yeah, most NDAs that marketing staff have to agree to is to not even hint about whether or not they have info about something or not, if they are asked directly. That is how NDAs typically are lately, at least. They can drop subtle hints without revealing anything, though, like their Soon™ before OBT.

I had a few CBTs I was in, in the past that required us not to say anything about the game's state / content. Such as TESO. In fact, while playing TESO during said time, your username would appear tiled as a gradient texture over the screen during gameplay to make sure that if you recorded the gameplay TESO would know when it was recorded versus when you aired the video/etc. So that if you aired the video during the CBT, you would be instantly perma-banned.

Some high end MMOs as of late have been taking to social media more lately to search user posts to make sure they are upholding the EULA/ToS they agreed on. Final Fantasy XIV in particular recently banned someone for sharing NSFW mods on a screenshot on their twitter. But it was more so because they were a more widely known content creator over other people. They didn't want the name FFXIV to be associated with those mods. In a recent live letter, Yoshida, the producer/director, actually had to bring out the big guns and put the nail in the coffin once and for all, directly addressing Square Enix's stance on NSFW Mods as well as other third-party content. They haven't actually directly addressed the issue in such a way before, but Yoshida believed he had to. (Previously, it would be in EULA/ToS/etc. which some people deign not to read.)

There is no doubt in my mind that SEGA JP could come over here to address any matter in a similar manner.

I expect majority of the JP content to be added over the months, but I don't think this is really the issue here. As long as the content isn't drawn out and NA catches up relatively quick while still giving new players a chance to understand the game it will be okay. In all honesty, returning players from JP are not primarily the focus for this localization. At least it doesn't feel that way, due to the lower level cap and missing content. I even feel like going back to JP sometimes. The producer of PSO2, Satoshi Sakai, even said that he will never implement range bans to "block foreign fans." I don't think there will be a fight between the two servers over the english players. Currently they serve two different PSO2 experiences, and while the returning player will find JP superior the new player doesn't know the difference.

But I think LockeKosta did nail the coffin with one key point. The severe lack of communication is appalling. I won't point fingers at who is at fault here because I don't know who is who. But one thing is for certain, JP gets weekly updates on how things are going, and constant roadmaps for content. They even just posted a roadmap this past maintenance teasing a new class and more! Meanwhile, we can't even get a PC release date or even an update to the progress of the PC release. When JP was going through their Alphas and betas (which I took part in both), we were given updates to everything they did and schedules for everything. The only schedule we have is Urgent Quests, which only alternate between the very early Emergency Quests from the early days of JP. I get that they are progressing into this stuff for new players, but seeing Chrome Dragon UQ for the hundredth time is really annoying. Oh look, Big Vardha! yawn

I regret not being able to submit a survey in time. I didn't find out about it until the day it was over and took too long to formulate my thoughts. I guess here is as good as any. If SEGA wants this game to be a success in NA like it is in JP, then communication is key. The content can be a year behind but so long as SEGA or whoever posts roadmaps with detailed updates in content then it at least puts players at ease knowing that we won't get abandoned for the 3rd time. Returning players from JP will likely just go back to JP. I don't think they even make up 10% of the current playerbase so this isn't a major issue. Most new players know JP exists but don't want the hassle it is to play it. The ones I've met are not concerned with the difference in content. But I can guarantee you they won't be playing in a few months if nothing gets added.

All the while I will continue to support NA, if only to stick it to Satoshi Sakai for saying PSO2 wasn't marketable in the west (I cannot find the interview in which he said this however). I want to see PSO2 succeed. I don't want to go through another PSOBB or PSU.

@M3rror Abandoned a third time? PSU was the only time where something like this happened to my knowledge,what are the other two? As far as I am aware, PSONA went out the way it was meant to, the Japanese servers went down around the same time.

Actually when I think about it, PSU was on its last legs on both sides of the pond when the NA servers went down, if anything we were let down easier than the Japanese playerbase and not being let down easy is the worst, like with Chaotic after the site started glitching up and 4kids sued TCDigital, when the community manager Blargers was all 0793e6e32e1f8bc3f2f2dacb7f08a11d.png

And the community was kept completely in the dark about literally everything (though we did find out about the lawsuit on our own).

It's the same reason why I'm not convinced that Chaotic is coming back, especially when the announcement kept getting delayed so I left the discord server. The team behind the game is clearly dedicated to not having proper communication even after all these years.

@LockeKosta thank you for writing this for starters. Im not a game dev but ive plaued alot of mmo's in my time and it feels like pso2 is missing is very important areas.

My current major complaints are about:

  1. Skill tree respec requires a player to spend money -Its a basic feature in literally all mmo's, they shouldn't be charging people for a basic feature

  2. Trading (another basic feature in other games) is gated off to plauer who spend money -this is another basic feature that all mmo's just let their plauers do.

Cosmetic stuff is 100% fair game. Want to extend your inventory space or maybe or bank space for a couple bucks? 100% fair

But to ask players to shell out money for literally the most basic of features is beyond not okay.

They are trying to sell this game and its content to a western audience and the reality of the west is that if players start at lvl 1 and look at their inventory and see they cant trade without shelling out money, they are just going to uninstall instantly.

Ive had 3 friends already do this. People dont like feeling forced into a purchase for something that comes standard everywhere else.

Trading being closed off to premium is fine, otherwise it would make more grinding moot for all players.

@Ranmaru i dont think it is and no it wouldn't.

The person shop would still incentivise people to get premium.

And again its a basic feature in every mmo. There are no excuses or defences of it not being free.

I would rather it not even be a feature. Asking to have it be free makes it much easier. With player shop, you are at least using in-game currency that you acquire from playing.