Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA

This is an opinion. So hey.

@GamerKillance said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

It sucks, but it will take time before things come full circle for this game.

Starting to get PSO2 SEA vibes. Poor translation, heavy monetization, years behind in content, and censorship.

Then again, PSO2 SEA lasted 3 years, if PSO2 NA lasts 3 yers, ehh. Good enough? 🤷

@Havox3 To be fair... SEA had the actual client rolled back to early ones. NA is artificially rolled back (latest client, content is rolled back by making things inaccessible) and honestly, the best scenario for what should have been inevitable (or were we expecting the game to launch with all episodes active at once).

The monetization in NA is still nothing like SEA, given that at least NA is still cosmetic based like JP. SEA outright had a leaderboard for those who spent the most money.

...also SEA wasnt censored tho... I suppose thats a plus for SEA huh...?

@Leonkh99 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

SEA outright had a leaderboard for those who spent the most money.

The 200+ KH Union X/Cross players mentioned in KH3 is basically the same thing. But that was a mobile game. I'm guessing SEA had planned to make it more mobile-styled, much like a lot of KR/Korean games are.

@coldreactive said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@LockeKosta said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

The utterly terrible communication.

Final Fantasy XIV is the same way in most cases. They don't like to tell us what things are changing until the patch notes, especially when it comes to major changes to things people like.

FF14 is told well in advance. If you don't know then you aren't paying attention tbh, although as a vet of FF14 I can confirm most people don't pay attention. You also completely missed the point and the type of communication I'm talking about, which had little to nothing to do with patch notes.

@DKGJustus said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@LockeKosta said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

To preface this before all the white knights and confirmation biased "It's only beta though" excusers come flocking to their defense, I've tried really hard to give the benefit of the doubt. I work in game development. I know how difficult bringing the game over to the west is. I understand how alphas, betas, MVPs, etc work. And I'm not telling people that they shouldn't support or play the game. Hell, I'm still going to play it - just going to financially support significantly less or not at all.

The reason being because it's undeniable that Sega and the devs in charge don't actually care about the NA version of PSO 2. There's too much evidence of laziness and lack of forethought to ignore.

  1. The utterly terrible communication.

From promoting bundles days before telling us what premium and mission tickets even were - which didn't happen until mere hours of the game launching (yes, this is a soft launch and you're in utter denial if you think otherwise) to until announcing 5 hour maintenance times the day-of. The communication has been atrocious.

There is a wealth of information online regarding premium. Mission pass not so much.

Hell, one of the 5 posts that went up barely an hour of two before the game went live was clearly written to be posted days beforehand - notifying people of the 16th's predownload time when it was posted the afternoon of the 17th. There was no reason not to dribble those information posts out daily instead of waiting until the last minute. But no consideration to basic common sense was clearly given.

They have been using twitter as a primary means of communciation, more so than the website. They announced the predownload time almost a week ahead of beta via twitter.

Then there's whole maintenance fiasco we just went through. I get that it's being handled by JP devs who operate on JP time and that maybethey wanted their maintance team to handle both versions at the same time. Okay, cool. This is literally called the NA version though. Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to go, "Hey guys, maybe we should let people know well in advance that they won't be able to play during the hours we tend to have THE MOST PLAYERS online at any given time." Again though, no attempt at forethought or the concern for the player base was given.

This I don't like. Sega needs to handle this on their own. Shadow the JP dev's and get it figured out.

JP gets full live streams and clearly laid out plans and schedules in advance. NA can't even get a tweet 24 hours ahead of time.

I think this will get better with time. We also don't know the staff size of the folks running our version of the game.

  1. No thought/consideration was put into the content that's in the game.

What do you mean? We've already gotten NA exclusive content. The mission pass (battle pass) is pretty significant change from the JP version.

I know most players won't realize this, but the two strongest weapon lines in the game right now - the ones that you're rewarded with if you really sink your teeth into the game and grind - can't be used to their fullest potential. To utilize their best potential abilities you need arena boosters, which aren't in the game at all! This means that you either have to upgrade a shittier version of the weapon to use it - that you can't go back and correct later - or that you can't enhance and use the weapon you've spent likely spent most of your time and resources grinding for.

Which weapons are you referring to? The unique weapon badge shop weapons? I've gotten mine to +31 and haven't had to use any boosters we do not have access to.

It's a very simple thing to go, "Hey, let's put arena boosters in some of the other shops or just change the upgrade requirement." But yet again, 0 fucks, forethought or consideration has been given.

On another note, did you know that the UQs in the schedule have been running since day 1 of launch? They're not special. They weren't added at maintenance. The three listed in the schedule aren't even the best ones to run right now and you can get better XP and drops from running Advanced Quests if you know what you're doing. They're being made to look more important and event-like than they are to appease players and make it seems like more work is being put into this than is actually happening. Which, honestly, I wouldn't even bring up and I'd let slide if it weren't for everything else on top of it - as it stands, it's just another point of proof that they don't care about NA.

I enjoy the fact that we get more UQs (EQs) than the listed scheduled ones.

Then there's the economy blunders - like the Xbox Game Pass. I took one glance at that and told my Alliance exactly how it'd impact the market and how to take advantage of it. It doesn't take a genius to realize that you giving out 12 AC tickets and premium to the vast majority of players will tank the AC item economy. I will give kudos to the dev and management team for catching the mistake pretty quickly. But it's also mistake that shouldn't have been made if you care about your game's health more than just the money you can potentially generate. And the process of correcting the mistake has been laughably piss poor too.

Save the AC items, prices will grow with time :). Stock up while cheap, reap rewards later.

Just gonna address these with numbers for clarity's sake.

  1. NOW there is. Check out the timeline, there was not. And no, assuming NA would be the same as JP does not count as there already being a wealth of information. They've changed plenty of things and assuming premium would be identical is not the same as them actually communicating properly and confirming it before selling it in a bundle.

  2. The Twitter/social media team deserves a lot of praise and credit. They've done well. But again, this doesn't excuse the other shitty communication and tweets get quickly buried and lost - leaving a lot of people uninformed. The fact, as hard as I know it is to believe for people who haven't worked in PR and marketing, is that more people will scroll through the posts on the site than constantly check twitter. My point is that the post clearly was written to go out sooner and should have if just the most minute bit of common sense and care was taken in the planning of information dissemination.

  3. It's good that the JP team is handling NA imo. I don't mind the maintenance timing - obviously we'd all prefer it wasn't during primary playing time, but that may not be feasible - there just needs to be more communication and heads up for players at the very least and that shouldn't have to be said if they actually care about the game and it's community more than a simple cash grab.

4.I don't think it'll get better with time. I think we're always going to be the red-headed stepchild that isn't really wanted at this point.

  1. I spelled out what I meant. Adding a couple cosmetic items to shill a $60 Founder's Pass is hardly "content", and neither is the battle pass that's literally designed for the same reason - draining wallets. They've implemented weapons, which are currently the best in the game, that we can't even use properly. There's a difference between the shit they fleece their pockets with and actual content. The fashion isn't content. The gameplay and loot systems are.

  2. Here you touch on kinda the crux of the issue and why I knew what I said would fall on deaf ears. And to be fair, maybe it's my fault for caring moreso than the super casual social mmo PSO 2 is. The majority of people don't take the time to understand the game enough to even know what I'm talking about and why it matters - which in turn just gives the devs an excuse to not take NA seriously.

  3. You missed the entire point I was making about UQs (EQs).

  4. You're both right and wrong at the same time here. But I don't really have to make the case when their own actions with the Game Pass have already shown they know they fucked up.

@Leonkh99 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

I do agree with many of your points, though I wish to clear things up a bit.

A lot of the issues ultimately come down to the fact that the Community side of things is not handled by SEGA themselves. SEGA of Japan are the ones who will be, from the look of things:

  • Running the game servers.
  • Providing patch updates (nothing new here, all dev-related stuff would be handled by the JP devs).
  • Developing NA exclusive content and getting things to work on the NA server.

Meanwhile, the game's Localization has been outsourced to a separate company. The Community Team is outsourced to another company as well, ESTsoft, who will officially be going by the "PSO2 Team" name and is in charge of the following:

  • All social media accounts.
  • GMs.
  • Forums and Website.
  • Customer Support.

This does not give em full 100% control however, ultimately SEGA of Japan has control over what they say and can do. So take for instance the PC version we are still awaiting, either ESTsoft had been made aware of things but are told not to say a word about it or they have refrained from telling ESTsoft anything other than what we already know. Ultimately, a lot of issues which you've named come down to nothing more than Communication between the two.

As for things that are broken, I won't deny it being a soft launch... but keep in mind that stuff potentially breaking and being incomplete is allthemore reason that this is still officially an "Open Beta". In some circles, thats ultimately what Open Beta is... the game's launch but with some problems still present and currently being fixed.

I'm well aware of how it works. Hence why I said "Sega and the Devs" and didn't blame the Community Team who can only work with what they're given.

Also it's a soft launch, not an actually beta. If they really wanted to run a beta that cared about ironing out the game then the AC shop should be free for testing and there'd be a wipe at the end. Just because the term has been bastardized and people who don't work in development now think a certain way doesn't change what this actually is and I give no game whatsoever a pass for hiding behind a term they're not even practicing properly.

@Ezodagrom said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@LockeKosta said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

I know most players won't realize this, but the two strongest weapon lines in the game right now - the ones that you're rewarded with if you really sink your teeth into the game and grind - can't be used to their fullest potential. To utilize their best potential abilities you need arena boosters, which aren't in the game at all! This means that you either have to upgrade a shittier version of the weapon to use it - that you can't go back and correct later - or that you can't enhance and use the weapon you've spent likely spent most of your time and resources grinding for.

Hmm, unless that feature is not available in the NA version (which I really doubt), in the JP version it has been possible to switch weapons potentials for many years.

For example, if a weapon that is grinded at +35 has 2 potentials and both require Photon Spheres, switching from one potential to the other keeps the weapon at +35, but costs the amount of Photon Spheres that would be required for all 3 potential levels (3 + 4 + 5, so, it would cost 12 spheres to switch potential) and meseta.

It's the same thing for when the other potentials require other types of items, switching potential only costs meseta and the items needed for all 3 potential levels. Whenever arena boosters are added to the NA version, the players can just switch potential.

I was not aware of this possibility and I'm not seeing any indication of it being in NA, but that could be my own ignorance. However, that's a moot point because the boosters will likely also come with 14 * weapons and other things that make what is currently BiS useless. So you never get to actually use the weapon at its fullest potential because of this oversight. Making your grind for them and the only end game we currently have to remotely speak of entirely pointless.

@oscargg said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

i concurr with your opinions. on the other hand why would someone port an 8 year old game to NA? ($$$$) i mean im glad i will get to play it . but im sure as hell not hype as i was 8 years ago. in the end all the people who really wanted to play this , already have in JP servers with max lvl accounts and all.

Just cause we all know it's a cash grab doesn't mean we can't still be disappointed.

@kliqIMB said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@LockeKosta : I know it's fun to go on diatribes and slam everything you have a problem with, but at least make sure everything you're whinging about is accurate. It says right on the UQ page that the ones listed aren't the only ones running and that sometimes other random ones will spawn whenever. They page goes out of it's way to make sure it's known these aren't the ONLY UQs, but just a schedule that you can use to make sure you hit specific ones if you want. Some people, like myself, like to get the crown next to all missions, so I like having at least one dedicated time where I can grind through each difficulty level without worrying about getting max EXP.

Also, if you "work in game dev", I would think that you'd have more understanding around why some of the changes you're suggesting might not be realistic. Or how, these communications issues clearly stem from the team being bifurcated between Sega Japan and ESTSoft.

You completely missed the point I was making about the UQs (EQs). Also I didn't "slam everything", which I literally said at the end and they 1. deserve the criticism at this point and 2. there's literally no chance of anything improving if all you ever do is tell someone "good job" when they're making mistakes. You're doing them a disservice by doing so. Report the bug. You don't do any devs a favor by pretending it's not there.

And the only suggestion I'm really making is better communication and the implementation of an item that could easily be slotted into the ES weapon shop in the interim if they thought about things for half a second. I'm well aware how reasonable a couple extra paragraphs, slightly better organization, and one item in added to a shop list (a shop they literally made for NA because those cosmetic weapons are only available through an app we'll never get) is.

@Mattwo7 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@Leonkh99 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

ESTsoft

alt text

Hmm...

What you're saying has been echoed a thousand times and like I've said to many of them, that doesn't mean we can't still be disappointed. But major props for saying it in a very creative a poignant manner! lol

@LockeKosta Regardless it does not change the fact that by SEGA calling it an Open Beta, choosing to play the game while its in this state means you that you are aware that things can and will break while the game's in Beta. There is no systemic way to run a Beta and so long as SEGA's calling it that... its a Beta... regardless of whether you keep your data or whether monetization is available. I'd be more concerned if SEGA weren't calling it a Beta and the game 'officially' launched in the state its in...

@A4Angel said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

You speak many truths. To be fair, this can be summed up with the amount of time it took for it to be brought over here. At nearly a decade it almost just doesn't matter, but glad it's here at all I suppose. There are also a lot of other things that seem broken for no reason(?) Like the Autowords, working during closed beta but now not? I dunno what it would be that would interfere with that but still not having a fix is a bit of an annoyance.. My Room being soft pushed to being a premium only feature is off putting as well. The misleading information that the tickets can be found in the FUN shop, having them only available in the FUN scratch making it based on some real luck to actually get just one.. and who only wants a single ticket? This makes premium the only real and reliable way to have a larger room, rather than the hard work and grind for Excubes.

Who knows, maybe things will feel better in time, maybe after official launch. It's just nice to actually have my friends to play with this time around. I hope you continue to find enjoyment in it! It's clear you enjoy the game!

I hope it gets better too. And same to you and your friends. ^^

@Toy-Soldier-Ken said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

This is an opinion. So hey.

An opinion with evidence to back the assertion - which is more than most opinions are given nowadays - but yes, you are correct.

@Havox3 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@GamerKillance said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

It sucks, but it will take time before things come full circle for this game.

Starting to get PSO2 SEA vibes. Poor translation, heavy monetization, years behind in content, and censorship.

Then again, PSO2 SEA lasted 3 years, if PSO2 NA lasts 3 yers, ehh. Good enough? 🤷

True.

I skimmed, but I am not surprised Sega doesn't seem to care about NA. It took them 8 years and thanks to Microsoft, we are getting it.

@Leonkh99 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

@LockeKosta Regardless it does not change the fact that by SEGA calling it an Open Beta, choosing to play the game while its in this state means you that you are aware that things can and will break while the game's in Beta. There is no systemic way to run a Beta and so long as SEGA's calling it that... its a Beta... regardless of whether you keep your data or whether monetization is available. I'd be more concerned if SEGA weren't calling it a Beta and the game 'officially' launched in the state its in...

It's not an excuse and these oversights aren't the same as bugs or things breaking. Games are literally given this "Beta" moniker and put into things like early access for the expressed purpose of getting people to defend their mistakes and missteps they way you're rationalizing it now. There are devs and publishers who literally laugh about it and say shit like, "Dance, puppets."

If they're accepting money, which to be clear is not the same as you contributing to a Kickstarter or other crowdfunding source - and I would go as far as to say isn't the same as supporting an indie team's early access run, then they are releasing a product and deserve the criticism they get - especially when it involves things like basic communication and oversights.

But sounds like we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Hmm, don't think im putting down your sentiment @LockeKosta , you've raised some good points which I admit I have noticed as well... the only thing I can't agree with is the whole Open Beta thing since its very subjective and as I see, the argument doesn't apply ONLY to PSO2 but loads of other games so its less of a problem with PSO2 and more of an industry problem. In my defense, I had always seen Open Betas as Soft Launches regardless of how they were handled so I didn't see the need to make the distinction so I might have misinterpreted your angle.

I'm still of the 'wait and see' argument... a pattern im picking up is that in regards to PSO2 SEGA doesn't tend to announce 'far ahead' if that makes sense... it was always what was coming next. My theory was always that they have internal milestones for things but they do not wish to announce them as they want to keep them open in case of any delays. Its for this reason it took so long to get word on the Closed Beta date or the Open Beta date and why its taking so long to get any word at all on the PC version's release date... since SEGA's focus right now is the Open Beta and anything that comes after they'll "cross that bridge when they get there".

Whether a roadmap would be unveiled once everything's in order is something we will have to see. At this stage im personally going easy on them given the 'official' state of the game even if, in your own view, they should be criticized as if this were the full release.

The way the game is structured, it appears the assets are there but locked. This gives me hope that, there will be a significant update on "release". If they released the entirety of the game, i think the bridge from pc and xbox would completely ruin the experience for many pc players. Currency, cosmetics, and overall power.

It doesn't take long to get to 50 and from there it becomes a bit of a chore and I think it's intentionally designed this way for the OB.

In terms of spending, with game pass ultimate , I have absolutely no need to really spend anything. I intend to play etoile as my main , whenever that is so it makes no sense to spend money on my current character. I finished the story and have enough SG for the next two battle passes and then some.

I would love to throw money at thet game, but right now i have everything for free. I'll buy the premium every month and take my game pass rewards and be set. I may not even get the premium every month. There is really no need to spend any money on the game. It's a complete choice on how much you desire the cosmetics.

I am old, in my 40's, and have played tons of f2p's since the early 2k's and this is by far one of the best models i've seen.

Sure there are some frustrations, but if you enjoy the game, play it. If you don't, don't play it. I do agree on some of your points, the content release is kinda out there with what's missing and how important some of those missing things are to classes.

Crafting, rings, and some of the skill trees bother me a bit. Ultimately though, aside from minor things, it's a solid open beta.

All that said, again i think you have some valid points but as others have said, I am on a wait and see. If full release doesn't have a major content update, i'll probably take a break and come back when the content is there. There are so many things to do in the jp version, it's really crazy how limited NA is right now.

@Leonkh99 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

Hmm, don't think im putting down your sentiment @LockeKosta , you've raised some good points which I admit I have noticed as well... the only thing I can't agree with is the whole Open Beta thing since its very subjective and as I see, the argument doesn't apply ONLY to PSO2 but loads of other games so its less of a problem with PSO2 and more of an industry problem. In my defense, I had always seen Open Betas as Soft Launches regardless of how they were handled so I didn't see the need to make the distinction so I might have misinterpreted your angle.

I'm still of the 'wait and see' argument... a pattern im picking up is that in regards to PSO2 SEGA doesn't tend to announce 'far ahead' if that makes sense... it was always what was coming next. My theory was always that they have internal milestones for things but they do not wish to announce them as they want to keep them open in case of any delays. Its for this reason it took so long to get word on the Closed Beta date or the Open Beta date and why its taking so long to get any word at all on the PC version's release date... since SEGA's focus right now is the Open Beta and anything that comes after they'll "cross that bridge when they get there".

Whether a roadmap would be unveiled once everything's in order is something we will have to see. At this stage im personally going easy on them given the 'official' state of the game even if, in your own view, they should be criticized as if this were the full release.

I didn't think you put down my sentiment and I'm sorry if my response made it seem like that's what I was implying.

Yeah, it is more of an industry problem that really rubs me the wrong way and I fundamentally disagree with. I completely understand the business side and why it happens, why it's become what it has, but I really dislike it and don't believe it's necessary for things to be this way at all - especially for corportations who can afford to do things right. A lot of people get screwed out of jobs they deserve and that are worthwhile due to this. But that's another topic entirely.

I do agree that 'wait and see' is still the right approach here, at least until we see the first content update. It's more the communication that's a big red flag to me, which is why I spent more time harping on it than otherwise.

SEGA does tend to announce ahead though. They just announced a new successor class coming to JP recently, weeks ago they announced all the changes coming in this week's latest JP update, and while announcing maintenance might not quite be the same thing - it really does show a lack of care for the supposed target demographic in this case to not even announce maintenance on twitter until the morning of when it was going to be during prime time.

Keep in mind, my issue and general assertion is based upon the collection of issues than any one specific point.

@Taconight1977 said in Sega and the Devs Don't Care About NA:

The way the game is structured, it appears the assets are there but locked. This gives me hope that, there will be a significant update on "release". If they released the entirety of the game, i think the bridge from pc and xbox would completely ruin the experience for many pc players. Currency, cosmetics, and overall power.

It doesn't take long to get to 50 and from there it becomes a bit of a chore and I think it's intentionally designed this way for the OB.

In terms of spending, with game pass ultimate , I have absolutely no need to really spend anything. I intend to play etoile as my main , whenever that is so it makes no sense to spend money on my current character. I finished the story and have enough SG for the next two battle passes and then some.

I would love to throw money at thet game, but right now i have everything for free. I'll buy the premium every month and take my game pass rewards and be set. I may not even get the premium every month. There is really no need to spend any money on the game. It's a complete choice on how much you desire the cosmetics.

I am old, in my 40's, and have played tons of f2p's since the early 2k's and this is by far one of the best models i've seen.

Sure there are some frustrations, but if you enjoy the game, play it. If you don't, don't play it. I do agree on some of your points, the content release is kinda out there with what's missing and how important some of those missing things are to classes.

Crafting, rings, and some of the skill trees bother me a bit. Ultimately though, aside from minor things, it's a solid open beta.

All that said, again i think you have some valid points but as others have said, I am on a wait and see. If full release doesn't have a major content update, i'll probably take a break and come back when the content is there. There are so many things to do in the jp version, it's really crazy how limited NA is right now.

Do AQ quests with a party of 4 and make sure the AQ threat is raised to +50. You'll hit 75 in no time.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the f2p model. None of my points touch on it. My point about the Game Pass has nothing to do with the model and is about common sense oversight. I wouldn't call this one of the best models - Warframe is a better example imo - but it could certainly be worse and is acceptable, which is why I haven't said anything about it.

As I said to someone else, I think "wait and see" is the right place to be and is ultimately where I am too. Just seeing a lot of red flags that don't spell out a good future. If there's a 0.1% chance a bit of criticism and highlighting helps course correct some things and make them better, I'm willing to take it. As a grinder I'm more than happy with those odds. 😁 And as a dev I know, metaphorically speaking of course, that you can't fix a bug if no one speaks up and points it out.

You know I'd personally would be more forgiving of their lack of telling us what to come if they didn't start before the current global crisis. Right now though it really is for the best that they don't give us any dates.

I mean sure, Nintendo in their recent mini-direct gave dates but they also had the foresight to tell us that they were malleable. That said, this isn't the best way to go about things because people will still be upset if the dates are missed (not to mention some of given the dates were "right now", as in they were already ready and excluding dates would mean not telling people even this much).