Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?

@Blade-Syphon

No one proved me wrong by now thats just you believing things. Just like you believe that i said PSU had something to do with time travel. I never said that thats you twisting your own words around so it makes sense for you. I said the Remaster could feature it so the MMO makes sense thats a huge difference.

Also you just proved you have no idea how PSO2 time travel works.Here some facts:

  • Persona visited multiple timelines/dimensions and alsways had the same result until in our timeline/dimension Matoi survived. So its NOT the same loop anymore.
  • We sealed the Primordial Darkness breaking the loop. Hence our timeline got changed.
  • We also had multiple events changing the loop resulting in us ending it. Mostly Personas interference in a dimensional timeline he is not a part of.

Xiao even said when he send us back in time that we need to be carefull because everything we do or say could affect the present so i rather believe Xiao then you on this one. And Persona even proved that because our timeline changed because of him because he traveled back in time. As i said before there isnt just time travel but dimension travel aswell and once someone or something from another dimension comes to ours that said being IS NOT part of the loop and can change it. That was the whole purpose of Persona....sad you didnt realize that.

For you it sounds like nonsensical rambling but thats you not understanding how things work so thats not my fault.

Yuji Naka needs to come back to SEGA and save his baby.

Or kill it himself.

@Kofi9867

I would prefer the former.

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Persona visited multiple timelines/dimensions and alsways had the same result until in our timeline/dimension Matoi survived. So its NOT the same loop anymore. We sealed the Primordial Darkness breaking the loop. Hence our timeline got changed. We also had multiple events changing the loop resulting in us ending it. Mostly Personas interference in a dimensional timeline he is not a part of.

Jesus do you even read what you post before you post it?

You literally just explained what a closed time loop is. Yes, what Persona was doing was trying to change a time loop that could not be changed because it was caught in a paradox of Persona being the Guardian that, in attempting to prevent Matoi from becoming the Profound Darkness, would lead to the events that would force her to become the Profound Darkness. That is, by the very definition, a closed time loop.

And no shit we closed the time loop - that was the entire point of the Episode 6's plot - defying fate and proving that we are masters of our own destiny. I never said the time loop was permanent, it's just that the plot of PSO2 was around what was perceived to be an impossible to alter time loop created at the beginning of time by the Akashic Records.

I.. I'm not even going to bother anymore. You have literally no idea what it is you're typing, fail to understand even the most basic of understanding of plots, and leap from one tangent to another the moment you're proven wrong in hopes that no one pays any notice to your complete and total lack of understanding of everything you're pretending to be knowledgeable about.

Just...stop. You have no idea what you're talking about. You have no concept of Phantasy Star Universe's plot, you have no concept of what Ash is supposed to be, or why Sega uses him as a generic stand in to our Guardians, and you have no idea what a paradox or time loop is.

Thankfully, there are powers in place to prevent people such as yourself from ever laying a hand on video games, so we atleast have that going for us.

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Just like you believe that i said PSU had something to do with time travel. I never said that thats you twisting your own words around so it makes sense for you. I said the Remaster could feature it so the MMO makes sense thats a huge difference.

And yet...

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

I don't understand why you're struggling so hard to come to terms with this concept. Even tho the whole game is about time travel and alternate dimensions.

So what's this in context of? I never mentioned time travel as part of PSO2's plot, I mentioned it as you writing what essentially amounted to as terrible fan fiction by shoving time travel crap into Phantasy Star Universe, where it never existed, and doesn't need to exist. Or are we going to pretend now that you didn't type that you'd "Fix" EPisode 1's story by self inserting the PC into the plot through the machinations of time travel, even though that makes literally no sense, and would exist in a universe where time travel doesn't exist, just because...why exactly? You don't like the idea of Ethan being the protagonist of Episode 1, which was created FROM THE BEGINNING to be a single player JRPG as a throw back to the Genesis era of Phatnasy Star?

Either learn to format your posts better and actually put your thoughts into a better laid out fashion so we can grasp what your incoherent rambling is about, or stop trying to pretend you're not typing things that you are, in fact, typing.

@Kofi9867 said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Yuji Naka needs to come back to SEGA and save his baby.

Or kill it himself.

After Balan, it would surely be a swift end.

@Riesz That just would not work, because there's already a player character in the PSU story, which is introduced in Episode 2.

If you were to take only Episode 1 out of context, sure, maybe you could replace Ethan with a custom character, but then what about everything that happens after Episode 1? In Episode 2 and 3 both Ethan and the player character play separate key roles, you just can't merge both into a single character.

Then there's the sequels to PSU, Portable 2 and Portable 2 Infinity, where Ethan still appears, but, he's not a main character anymore. In these there's also a completely new player character that is unrelated to the PSU one.

Though, this whole discussion about PSU doesn't really matter much, it's a game that was far less popular than PSO2 (independently of the quality of both PSU and PSO2), if any Phantasy Star game were to be remade in the future, PSO1 or the classic games are what most players would want, not PSU (not that I wouldn't like the Universe series to be remastered, personally I would like a remastered collection with everything from the Universe series, even including the gameplay enhancements from Portable 2 Infinity in the older games, but it's just not going to happen).

@Riesz said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

While I don't agree with that person's theories or how he would decide to make a player character replace Ethan, I do think there is a way to make it work, basically they could make it that your character is Ethan in every way except appearance (having people refer to him as Ethan, having him speak still (but obviously not use any custom voices your character might have), having the same backstory but having him take your custom character's appearance if male, and making a Female character that also has the same things just with a different name and voice actor).

The problem however, then, is how do you handle Episode 2 and 3, when Ethan goes "rogue", and the story perspective shifts over to the Guardian PC. You'd basically make a PC Ethan, then have said character taken away from you, and be told to make a NEW PC to take the role of the protagonist for Episode 2 and 3.

Now, if you want to go the Commander Shepard route, and give the player some basic customization features for Ethan, that's totally fair. But again - Ethan himself is integral to the actual plot of PSU. You can't simply remove or replace him with the PC, and have the following Episodes still function the same narritively. In the case of Episode 1, you simply can't remove Ethan without creating a cascade effect that throws the rest of the game's narrative into the wood work.

And even with an example of Shepard, Bioware was pretty strict on how much you could actually customize his apperance, because while they did want to give you some freedom to make Shepard "yours", Shepard is, in the end, a pre-defined character, just as Ethan was.

@Aumires said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

@Kofi9867 said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Yuji Naka needs to come back to SEGA and save his baby.

Or kill it himself.

After Balan, it would surely be a swift end.

Ouch....Was Balan really that bad?..

@KOSMOSFAN22497 oh, it was pretty bad from what i've seen

@Blade-Syphon

Yes i do read what i post you however dont.

Your concept only works if there is only ONE timeline in ONE dimension. When Persona entered our timeline the loop was already broken there was no loop anymore. Persona was not a part of our timeline he was not affected by its rules and he didnt play by the rules. In his original timeline what you say is true yes but as soon as he enters other timelines he is not a part of said loop anymore he is a so called "outside factor". So thanks for proving that you have no clue about dimensional time travel just like i assumed.

@Riesz

In the time travel option we dont replace Ethan at all. We just travel back in time to prevent him from maybe doing something affecting the future. Or we find out by following him around that he iisnt responsible for the future at all who know. That means our PC does not even have any form of contact with Ethan at all.

Also i remember using a picture as prove from your own post against your own theory and i was never proven wrong by you. Also no one ever proved me wrong when i said we are just the protagonist in our dimension and that there maybe is a dimension with Ash as us. As i said before Ash is pretty much Segas PC.

So yeah what you guys say only works if we were the original dimension and timeline however good luck proving that.

So we’re literally watching a game being made from bad decisions? oof 😕

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

You know what is funny ? I watched Anamanas YT video yesterday and he really said that Universe had more content on release then NGS. So i wonder who i should trust now on the content argument. Maybe you remember it wrong ? Because i know he did play it last year ago again so his memorys are fresh.

Before responding I must point out I never said Universe released with less content than NGS, just that its release was not episodic. Universe released in October 2006. The first chapter of Episode 2 didn't arrive until December 2006 (6½ weeks after launch) and the final chapter of Episode 2 didn't happen until September 2007, almost a year later. That's not episodic, so what I said was demonstrably correct.

I must also point out that your claim was "Sega can release it in Episodes like PSO2". PSO2. Not New Genesis. New Genesis didn't even enter into it, and I hadn't mentioned New Genesis at all in this sub-discussion prior to your post here. You're trying to move the goalposts.

Temporary diversion start

Whether Universe or NGS launched with "more content" is mostly but not entirely subjective. The exception is the story; unless you include Episode 1 which was not available in Network Mode at all, it is an objective fact that Universe's Network Mode had less story than New Genesis because the former didn't have any on launch.

Beyond that though it's a matter of what you consider more important; Universe had a higher level cap (50 vs 20), weapon types (17 vs 12), equipment tiers (5 vs 4) and lore locations (all but Moatoob which arrived in November 2006, vs at least two locked regions). New Genesis has more classes (6 vs 3) and adventuring environments (7 vs 6). Bosses aren't a like-for-like because Universe has no equivalent for veteran enemies or PSE Burst Climax bosses; if you ignore those Universe had more (3 vs 2 UQs) but if you include Nogleth, Waulon, Vanas, Oruq, Nex Aelio, the Daityl family and so on New Genesis has way more. Cosmetics are also a difficult comparison because Universe had a relatively small amount in its town shops with a fixed set of colours and no accessories.

I can understand why anyone would say either Universe or New Genesis had "more content" at launch. Personally wouldn't say either.

Temporary diversion end

Back to the point you've been trying to deflect from though, you claimed that a Universe remaster could be launched "in Episodes like PSO2". Which PSO2 never did, and if Universe did launch like PSO2 it definitely wouldn't have Moatoob. Universe that launched like Universe didn't have Moatoob, and PSO2 JP was not a faster pace than Universe. In order for Universe to not be considered as lacking content, it would have to accelerate its launch content to have most if not all of what was added post-launch, and if you do that you are not comparing like-for-like anymore.


@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Matoi in the last cutscene tells us that she "loves" us indicating the protagonist is in fact male.

@Weirdo said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Gender isn't really evidence since you can have same sex relationships.

To extend this a bit further, I think one of the Episode 4 cutscenes has Matoi react differently to Hitsugi questioning her interest in the Guardian depending on their gender, but either way she gets cliché flustered and stuff. I could be wrong about this though.


@Riesz said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

In none of the PSO2 openings does he use the coated arms

The 7th opening (for Episode 6) does have Ash wielding Coated Edge. Openings aren't really relatable to PSO2 canon though as the only named characters that appear in those are Falz Hyunal (Elder), Falz Apprentice (Euclyta) and Magatsu.

The openings kind of have their own independent loose continuity considering the recurring appearances of several character-creation template characters which feels mostly designed to show them as placeholders for our custom characters to take the place of. It's a bit of a weird situation really!


@Blade-Syphon said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Again - look at my comparison to PSU with Final Fantasy VII, or any story-based JRPG for that matter. You cannot simply slap your character in over an established protagonist, and expect the same results.

I'm not honestly sure this comparison explains it best. You could technically slot in a different character in place of Cloud, who does evrything the same as Cloud and has the same backstory as Cloud, and the original plot of Final Fantasy VII would be left completely intact.

This is impossible in Universe; Ethan and the player character are canonically different characters that must be kept separate for story integrity because at several points during the story they both make concurrent progress that converges later on.

If the game ended by Epsiode 2 it might be possible to eliminate the player character from canon and treat all their actions as having been done by Laia, but even that isn't possible as Episode 3 similarly has Laia and the player character making concurrent separate progress (if I remember the player character is called Commander by that point). Between the three episodes, the player character is canonically their own entity separate to all named characters.

The only way to fit Episode 1 into a custom-character format without dramatically altering the story would be to have them be a friend of Ethan's who helps him out during Chapter 1 and joins the GUARDIANS alongside him. But that would be immersion-breakingly tenuous. Separate to Episode 1, the stories of Portable, Portable 2 and Infinity would need to be backported out of PSP jail and I think some of those had non-custom player characters that'd need to be reworked as well.

Even maintaining the Network Mode story of Universe alone and as-is would be tricky; the reason for Ethan's suddenly divergent role throughout Episode 2 was only explained in a web story series called Shadow of the Arkguard that'd need to be recreated or retold as well. If that was in-game it'd need to be merged with Episode 2 and since there's no place for a player character in that either it would either need a non-linear presentation to preserve the mystery or to be cut up and slotted in before and during Episode 2 which (if the player character was shoe-horned into those scenes) eliminates the mystery of the player character not knowing what's up with Ethan.

@Miraglyth

Well to be fair this never was a like-for-like comparison to begin with. We compare a Dungeon Crawler with Open World here. So like-for-like is out the window right from the start.