Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?

@Ezodagrom

Well you need to look at the product itself and then ask yourself is the numbers are low. PSU for example only counts Online Players while a huge part of the console playerbase didnt play Online. I for example didnt know anyone who had a Playstation2 or Xbos360 with Internet. So 250k players playing online in JP is pretty big if you look at what PSU is. YOu could say the PC players should have been much more but being honest here WoW was a thing back then and even other online games where out of reach for PSU. PSU is a dungeon crawler and those were not that popular at that time.

So in regard of what PSU is and in which era it was released those 250k are in fact really huge. If PSU would be remastered as a full Online Game like PSO2 with some changes so that the multiplayer is needed and rewarded those 250k would be broken on day one in just 1 hour.

@Ezodagrom said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Based on player ID numbers, the EN PC/PS2 servers of PSU didn't go much higher than a total of 50k players in its lifetime

I remember (though the forums are so dead I couldn't even find them on Wayback Machine) that there were around 30k Network Mode accounts reported on that server by the same metric after the first week. That was just NA players (the European and Australian release date was a calendar month later and only a handful of us imported the game, so a sizeable portion of the remaining 20k were probably launch players from the second-class regions.

It goes to show how important a good launch was at the time, but I feel that was a different age and that new or returning players can happen longer after release now we're not dependent on new players noticing the game on shop shelves. So while the NGS launch may be disappointing in terms of player retention, I'd say it's more of a salvageable situation than 15 years ago.


@Ezodagrom said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

I doubt that any of the PSO1 versions had thousands of concurrent players at any time either.

I quoted 26k from an interview with a first-hand source I think in the other topic. I suspect that was the highest PSO1 ever reached.


@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

If PSU would be remastered as a full Online Game like PSO2 with some changes so that the multiplayer is needed and rewarded those 250k would be broken on day one in just 1 hour.

This is at worst amusingly assumptive that people would want to go back to many of the issues Universe had, on the level an unfair comparison since you'd be comparing post-development Universe with the Network Mode that launched in 2006 which iirc had like four quests between the GUARDIANS Colony and Parum, and at best a vague non-statement of "if you make it better it'd do better" which also applies to everything ever.

@KOSMOSFAN22497 said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

@Furious-0 said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Did you just compare a dungeon crawler with Open World MMORPGs ?

I missed his post, but if anything that should be the first thing the game is compared to rather than a standard MMO. While NGS has moved away from it a bit more than it's predecessors, Phantasy Star Online as a series started off as Anime Space Diablo.

Pretty accurate.

Not really. By that logic people will start and compare League of Legends with the MMO Riot Games is gonna create in the LoL universe. You cant compare the Open World version with the MOBA version just because its the same universe. And you can NEVER compare content Patches with a Game release unless you are Elder Scrolls Online which is releasing its full franchise itno the online version with complete Maps and all.

@Miraglyth

No you didnt understand me right.

With changes i meant making it worth it playing with others. PSU was pretty much a single player game because people also had to finish it somehow when they dont have a Console with Internet. So you dont make the game "better" then before you just change the difficulty. So you dont upgrade the old PSU you just change it from single into multiplayer. I believed the term "Remaser" made that clear. But i can understand that people still get confused about what a "Remaster" and a "Remake" is.

Also there is a P-Server for PSU so there are already people proving you wrong.

@Miranda said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

@Furious-0 said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

@Miranda Possible rough translation:

"No one blames the devs. They did a good job within their limits."

Maybe.

Yeah that's good and I understood him (after calming down from something else).

As for the drip-feeding style, my first hand experience with that was with PSU, which is why I feared NGS getting the same treatment.

For the series and whether they want to destroy it or not, I donno. Look at Sonic - poor guy is a nobody now and I think many of us grew up with him.

At the very least, Sonic is regaining steam in other ways regardless of SEGA'S incompetent behavior.

@Furious-0 said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

I made a game.

There's a ball in a box. You can move the ball around. Next month, I'll give you the option to use different colored balls.

I think in about four months, I'll give you a second box.

Lolol cool 🙂

I understand the point thought. That sounds pretty ridiculous...

@PBJ-Time said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

This game’s in a worse state than Anthem at it’s release. Anyone going “live service” is just a flat out clown in my eyes, acting like it’s just got to be good because they’re going to update it is ridiculous. This is Sega’s first time with an open world mmo and If BioWare of any developer couldn’t get it right with EA’s money behind it what makes you think Sega’s bound to be any different?

They promised us pso2 in 2013/14 then went silent for over half a decade until Microsoft paid to bring it here. They let the Sonic games go to sh** until fans started making Mania and they surprisingly backed it (their in house game that released right after was still bad). The Sonic movie was given the okay from them in it’s original disturbing state and only got a touch up because the director actually listened to feedback. I can’t remember a single Sega game that’s lived up to being even half of what they used to do in the industry for about 2 decades (excluding pso2 which they gutted to push people towards NGS and even it wasn’t fully comparable to their quality back then then anyway). After their consoles flopped they largely stopped caring and almost seem to hold resentment for anyone who isn’t a Japanese consumer now

None of that should scream “everything’s good” to anyone.

It definitely doesn't to me.

That's just sad, tragic.......And racist....

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

No you didnt understand me right.

With changes i meant making it worth it playing with others. PSU was pretty much a single player game because people also had to finish it somehow when they dont have a Console with Internet.

You're right, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that Universe's Network Mode should've had more launch content because it had to be distributed as a complete disc, in particular on the PS2? If so, you'd be surprised because they withheld content. Network Mode launched with the first two areas and the first boss of single-player only, and took months to get the rest. PSU's Network Mode was unappealing because it was basically a downgraded version of the single-player experience where everyone was far weaker and upgrades were stretched out.


@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

I believed the term "Remaser" made that clear. But i can understand that people still get confused about what a "Remaster" and a "Remake" is.

And I don't understand how any of what I just said has anything to do with either. You're complaining that New Genesis is lacking content and for some reason praising Universe whose launch not only did it far worse but did so on purpose.

What you're now saying - I think? - is that if they re-released an online-only Universe presumably with all of the content that the old Universe servers had when they were shut down after all the updates it got, it would be better than the PC/PS2 Universe servers which were the earliest of the three main services to shut down over two years before the last (with updates in between).

And... yeah. That's kind of a no-brainer. You're not comparing like for like at all on that one. The PSO2 Global (then NA) got when it first launched (or had "open beta") was similarly better than the PSO2 that JP first got since we got up to the end of Episode 3 with a level 75 cap, the OT weapon system completely removed and Episode 5 control updates, and they got the first part of Episode 1 with a level 40? cap, OT weapons and PSO-style movement.

If you were able to magically go forward in time two years and pull back the NGS we may have by then and launch that as a service, it'd be better than the NGS we have now. None of this is really saying anything.


@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Also there is a P-Server for PSU so there are already people proving you wrong.

What point did I say that is supposedly "proven" wrong by this? 🤔 I didn't even say anything about prospective population numbers, and I suspect that server isn't pulling higher numbers than NGS is even if I had.

@Miraglyth

As i said i mean Remastering Universe. Its the same game nothing new besides Graphical changes,a better running system and making it multi player like PSO2 instead of being single player. There are no changes in the game itself at all it just runs better then before. And dont fool yourself. Sega and releasing all of Universe at once ? More like releasing it patch after patch like PSO2 did. So comparing Universe with NGS is not unfair at all because its still the same game just running better with new graphics and sound. Pretty much like the Spyro and Crash Remasters.

And people prove you wrong when you said:"This is at worst amusingly assumptive that people would want to go back to many of the issues Universe had" because people in fact are doind exactly that. So dont try to change the subject of what i said because youre right in does NOT prove you wrong by population numbers......i never said it does. 😉

@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Its the same game nothing new besides Graphical changes,a better running system and making it multi player like PSO2 instead of being single player. There are no changes in the game itself at all it just runs better then before.

So are you talking about releasing it with just ten quests again, or releasing it with the entire post-development content of Universe? "No changes in the game itself" would imply the former, because releasing with all the quests, the level 200 cap and so on are pretty big changes.


@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

and making it multi player like PSO2 instead of being single player

Universe was multi-player from launch. It just also had single-player. What you're suggesting sounds more like removing the single-player aspect, which would require changing the game's monetisation entirely because with the single-player gone you're basically suggesting selling a $50 game with a $10 monthly subscription fee to even play it.

So what'd that be? Remove the up-front cost? The subscription? Both? If it were to be more popular, don't you think the greatly reduced cost of entry would then be more of a reason why than how much content it has?


@Gilver-Redgrave said in Why does it feel like the NGS director wants to kill the series?:

Sega and releasing all of Universe at once ? More like releasing it patch after patch like PSO2 did.

The development cycles of Universe and PSO2 have very little in common. Do you think they fully developed the Wopal and Harukotan areas, all the associated story, Braver, Bouncer, Apprentice Zia, Dark Falz Gemini and Profound Darkness back in 2012? Pretty clearly not, given the lore mess that was the addition of deumans in 2013. Some of those things didn't hit JP until 2015 (Global got them all in "beta").

Contrast Universe where say Dulk Fakis was fully developed as it could be fought in Offline Mode at launch but took months to be added to Network Mode. Same with what was probably the majority of skills, bullets and TECHNICs that were all on the disc and held back for up to a year. Developed for release and developed to be arbitrarily disc-locked are two very different things.

And that's just what the games were for their time. Heck knows how a hypothetical Universe remaster would be relatable. If all the work is done up-front (for greatest efficiency and consistency) then it'd either be another arbitrarily-withheld content release cycle (like Universe, not like Online 2 or New Genesis) or they'd release it all up-front (not like any of them).

And if they only remastered each part before releasing it at the same pace as it had 15 years ago, potentially so proceeds from the service could fund continued remastering over time (the most like all of them) I don't believe it'd be very popular because it'd suffer exactly the same problems New Genesis is right now only as a game from 2006 with a face lift.

@Miraglyth It will get the post development Quest however not on release. As i said it will be released like PSO2 patch after patch. Keep in mind everything needs to be Remasterd and Sega wont be that fast. I mean Sega can make Episodes like in PSO2 aswell where they deliver huge patches or smaller ones depending on how fast remastering is going.

And no it wont be a monthly Subscriprion because its a Free to Play game like PSO2 and NGS. Thats what i meant with "changes". Universe will be changed from what it was into a full MMO hence why removing the single player aspect.

And no Universe wont have the same issues NGS has because Dungeon Crawlers and Open World games cant be compared in that regard as i stated multiple times before. People dont expect a Dungeon crawler to deliver them with content that keeps them playing for 6 months in a row. No Dungeon crawler does that and they all survive. Open World however is something where people expect to be playing for a long long time.

So Universe would have a real chance and it would have more players then NGS. Hell most people i asked would rather play a new Episode 7 in base PSO2 then NGS so the bar isnt really set high there to be more popular then NGS right now.

I won't lie, I wouldn't mind a remastered version of PSU's single player mode, if nothing else. The online mode was...eeeeeh, but the single player game was pretty fun for what it was, and it'd be nice to be able to actually play Episode 3 again in some way.

Besides, Clementine exists, there's no reason to remaster the online game when there's already a far superior version of it available.

@Blade-Syphon

Well what i meant was Remastering it all as MMO including the single player. The whole story of Universe Remasterd as MMO without dividing single and multiplayer.

@Gilver-Redgrave

How would that work, though, when Episode 1 was played through the eyes of Ethan, not the PC? I'm all for remastering the game in one capacity or the other, but Episode 1 was designed entirely as a spiritual successor to the original Phantasy Star Quadrilogy,and that included having a pre-defined protagonist in the form of Ethan, and the story being an offline single player experience.

@Blade-Syphon

Well to be fair PSO2 is also seen trough the eyes of Ash hence why he is the protagonist in Episode Oracle. Ash pretty much is Segas player Character and the Canon protagonist. So i dont see why the same wouldnt work with Universe.