Multi account red box hunters are destroying the market

@Zoe said in Multi account red box hunters are destroying the market:

Of course, I'd prefer to simply remove the massive, gated meseta dumps and make multi-accounts no different from regular alts, but hey-yo. That's probably not even on the table.

Any solution that encourages fair play will be acceptable. Perhaps the right decision would be to remove the meseta rewards from the weekly quests altogether. And instead, significantly increase the rewards for completing UQ, trials, etc. I don't like the idea that I and other players, should be engaged in a boring grind, in the hope of dropping some valuable item. And spend hours on it. And there is no guarantee that anyone actually buy it. At the same time, another player can simply make several accounts and get as much money as he wants without any problems. Well, this is also a monotonous and boring process, I admit, but it is much faster, profitable and does not depend on random.

there would be a pretty simple system around it but it will never be implemented.

First off, make average prices, then decide a range. Like a specific weapon gets sold for 10000 most of the time good thats the average. lets say we make a range of 50% so the new price you can choose will range from 5000 to 15000 meseta.

Then like allready mentioned, you cant "choose" which item to buy. you chose the specific item with enhancements and augments and so on and automatically buy the cheapest one in the market. end of story.

And that has nothing to do with the market per se, but give us methods of earning meseta aside from weeklys. like give 20000 meseta for UQ's or something.

They've been doing this for weeks now, why do you think the market is already becoming inflated and some people having tens of millions of N-meseta already. Sega made a huge mistake by eliminating any possible use for multiple characters in NGS since all the daily/weekly quests are shared, so that meant' players was naturally going to use the 2nd option by having multiple accounts and since you are guaranteed 3 highly sell-able pieces of armor from red boxes which are really easy to find....didn't take a genius to figure out this would be the new abuse method.

Like others have said ~ daily/weekly quests are not that hard to complete, not even really time consuming....so create 10 different accounts and farm the daily and weekly quests nets a huge amount of N-meseta.

Red Boxing is not the reason why the economy is the way it is because quite simply put, Red Boxing has improved the non-scratch economy as the items in there can be sold. When NGS started the prices of goods were high. Now the price of goods in the non-scratch market are perfect. In week 1, there were four star weapons sold for 100K+. Today, 100K goes far considering some Straga weapons have dropped to 1000 on the market.

The scratch economy is the way it is because NGS has to compete with base PSO2. There are many players in NGS like myself who spent a year in global and leveled up our fashion. We even pre-affixed gear for NGS thanks to the "Road to NGS" campaign. Sure, some claim that PSO2 is a 9 year old game. Few will tell you that PSO2 underwent a full graphics conversion a few years after launch. We came into NGS already with 10 - 30 looks in our lookbook. In order for NGS to win us over, their costumes have to compete with the looks we worked (and spent money) to build. Now, the reason why SEGA did not kill off PSO2 and force everyone to start over with NGS is because they did that when PSO2 came out by killing all PSO1 and PSU servers intentionally prior to PSO2 launch in 2012 to increase their PSO2 playerbase. That actually backfired and SEGA faced a lot of backlash.

Quite simply put, Conversion Rate is abysmal and there are many people who are holding on to their looks. By now, thanks to several graphics tests performed by myself and many others, the truth is out on NGS costumes.

NGS is a game for the future, which requires hardware for the future as far as graphics is concerned. If a player is playing at 1080P in low to moderate settings and they put on an NGS costume along with face and hair, the hair is pixilated and looks like crap. In order to actually really get the full effect of the costume, a player must be playing at Super to Ultra resolutions at resolutions beyond 1080P. 1080P looks good, but 1440P and 2160P (4K) looks astonishing in Ultra. PSO2 costumes look better at typical settings over NGS costumes right now. Sorry, but its true! Specially if Episode VI costumes and hairstyles compete with NGS hairstyles and costumes.

Not everyone wants to work with the barebones options NGS brings in character creation compared to PSO2 when it comes to hairstyles, makeup, and body paint options. You start with nearly nothing to the point it is actually better to start with base PSO2 items in Tier 5 - 6 graphic settings. I mean, they even clumped up the opposite gender styles and items together to make the selection look larger than it really is....

Lets add to this that many have already achieved the demands of the content given and we aren't going to have any new major content as far as gear and explorable areas until Nov/Dec. This means more players will take a break until that time and there will be less and less people scratching to the point the prices will remain high.

NGS like PSO2 is pretty much a sci-fi version of Digital Dress-Up Barbie, but there are many who aren't going to scratch or even be playing if we aren't getting any content... Since the incentive is to sell scratch items for money in order to get the looks and gear we want. No Content, No Scratching....a lot of those players will take advantage of steam summer sale and not return until SEGA releases the Mission Pass at least.

Red Boxing in that method actually allows SEGA to make money off the Red Boxers... So blaming Red Boxing for "Ruining" or "Inflating" the economy when it benefits one type of economy, for the purpose of accessing another economic market is just plain silly. ^_^

Ignoring the whole scratch economy issue, the main issue here is Red Boxes giving multi accounts an easy way to earn money. The terms of service says that multi-accounts are not allowed.

"SEGA hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited, fully revocable right and license to install, access and use one (1) copy of the Product solely and exclusively for your personal and non-commercial use."

Meseta being a reward from red boxes was likely an oversight and the rewards should be adjusted to be something non-tradable.

Played this game as f2p even though I could pay if wanted/need to. My reasons:

  • Fashion is not end game for me although nice options to have
  • Content is very limited and separates player base
  • Implementation of existing content done in questionable ways
  • Implementation of existing features done in questionable ways
  • Some non existent features
  • Performance problems for a whole range of players
  • Limited combat options

Im sure there is more but w/e. All this from a massive company that seemed to try to modernise an existing game but from mpov just rehashed the old World but took out or didnt include alot of what makes a game like this enjoyable. With this lvl of idk incompetence/neglect/lack of care/hubris I found it unacceptable and unjustifiable to support or even promote.

You complain about the Red box farmers, multi account players etc but these people are actually participating in what has been set up for them by SEGA in NGS. The economy is specifically designed to funnel these types of players and players like yourself to co-exist. You do not like the inflation of course but this is inevitable for many reasons.

This game feeds on fashion and scratches to such an extent that the game so far has suffered for that tunnel vision. I think steam alone lost 3/4 or so concurrent player base over 1st month. Many will not come back some will. But I think is safe to say unless something drastic happens we have seen its peak. So your economy will continue this trend unless changed and many of these suggestions seem to focus on further limiting the player base and wont really change anything except contribute to the dwindling players willing to participate.

I think it was FF where the big man in charge came out in front of the World and bow his head in shame for the handling of the game before it was turned around into the success it is today. That is a Massive gesture. But with PSO2 NGS you can probably expect a hand full of SG, scratches and more tunnel vision. This is not even a cultural thing, it is a company stance on the handling of the game in different regions. There are already Asian games moving away from these ancient practices and incorporating different region expectations for the benefit of the player base and games success.

GL.

@CheekiestCarp0 said in Multi account red box hunters are destroying the market:

Red Boxing is not the reason why the economy is the way it is because quite simply put, Red Boxing has improved the non-scratch economy as the items in there can be sold. When NGS started the prices of goods were high. Now the price of goods in the non-scratch market are perfect. In week 1, there were four star weapons sold for 100K+. Today, 100K goes far considering some Straga weapons have dropped to 1000 on the market.

The scratch economy is the way it is because NGS has to compete with base PSO2. There are many players in NGS like myself who spent a year in global and leveled up our fashion. We even pre-affixed gear for NGS thanks to the "Road to NGS" campaign. Sure, some claim that PSO2 is a 9 year old game. Few will tell you that PSO2 underwent a full graphics conversion a few years after launch. We came into NGS already with 10 - 30 looks in our lookbook. In order for NGS to win us over, their costumes have to compete with the looks we worked (and spent money) to build. Now, the reason why SEGA did not kill off PSO2 and force everyone to start over with NGS is because they did that when PSO2 came out by killing all PSO1 and PSU servers intentionally prior to PSO2 launch in 2012 to increase their PSO2 playerbase. That actually backfired and SEGA faced a lot of backlash.

Quite simply put, Conversion Rate is abysmal and there are many people who are holding on to their looks. By now, thanks to several graphics tests performed by myself and many others, the truth is out on NGS costumes.

NGS is a game for the future, which requires hardware for the future as far as graphics is concerned. If a player is playing at 1080P in low to moderate settings and they put on an NGS costume along with face and hair, the hair is pixilated and looks like crap. In order to actually really get the full effect of the costume, a player must be playing at Super to Ultra resolutions at resolutions beyond 1080P. 1080P looks good, but 1440P and 2160P (4K) looks astonishing in Ultra. PSO2 costumes look better at typical settings over NGS costumes right now. Sorry, but its true! Specially if Episode VI costumes and hairstyles compete with NGS hairstyles and costumes.

Not everyone wants to work with the barebones options NGS brings in character creation compared to PSO2 when it comes to hairstyles, makeup, and body paint options. You start with nearly nothing to the point it is actually better to start with base PSO2 items in Tier 5 - 6 graphic settings. I mean, they even clumped up the opposite gender styles and items together to make the selection look larger than it really is....

Lets add to this that many have already achieved the demands of the content given and we aren't going to have any new major content as far as gear and explorable areas until Nov/Dec. This means more players will take a break until that time and there will be less and less people scratching to the point the prices will remain high.

NGS like PSO2 is pretty much a sci-fi version of Digital Dress-Up Barbie, but there are many who aren't going to scratch or even be playing if we aren't getting any content... Since the incentive is to sell scratch items for money in order to get the looks and gear we want. No Content, No Scratching....a lot of those players will take advantage of steam summer sale and not return until SEGA releases the Mission Pass at least.

Red Boxing in that method actually allows SEGA to make money off the Red Boxers... So blaming Red Boxing for "Ruining" or "Inflating" the economy when it benefits one type of economy, for the purpose of accessing another economic market is just plain silly. ^_^

Oh, here's a red box alt account farmer!

pretty ironic that's its the premium/paying charcters who are abusing the system. Really SEGA should have and most probably already saw it coming. Whether they going to do anything about it in a timely manner and actually punish these people is what matters

@N-X said in Multi account red box hunters are destroying the market:

pretty ironic that's its the premium/paying charcters who are abusing the system. Really SEGA should have and most probably already saw it coming. Whether they going to do anything about it in a timely manner and actually punish these people is what matters

Its always been like that, people pay too look the best, to have the best equipment etc ~ take any MMo and look at the people who pay significant amounts of money vs the free players and you'll always see a massive difference between them, rarely you'll get free players who are remotely on par and almost always they are either using RMT mechanics, or abusing something within the game.

Few free players will ever actually generate huge amounts of currency, and the only 'legit' ones do so by heavily manipulating the market which further destabilizes in-game economies, I've yet to see an MMo market that hasn't been wrecked by players ruining the market for sheer personal gain, its like PVP without actual combat >.>

@JellyCreamTart said in Multi account red box hunters are destroying the market:

I think it was FF where the big man in charge came out in front of the World and bow his head in shame for the handling of the game before it was turned around into the success it is today. That is a Massive gesture. But with PSO2 NGS you can probably expect a hand full of SG, scratches and more tunnel vision. This is not even a cultural thing, it is a company stance on the handling of the game in different regions. There are already Asian games moving away from these ancient practices and incorporating different region expectations for the benefit of the player base and games success.

FFXIV can't really be compared to PSO2.

FFXIV 1.0 was pure unadulterated garbage, barely playable only in the technical sense. At that time, the company Square Enix was ready to go under with horrible forecasts, and FFXIV completely trashed their most precious and long-term brand, the Final Fantasy name.

They were out of options, and they were ready to bow and beg for player forgiveness if that's what it took.

And that's exactly what they did. They also replaced the original producer and put someone else in charge, who went on to tell the board that they literally have to burn the old version and rewrite most of the stuff, create the game from scratch. Taking lesseons from World of Warcraft and other popular MMOs.

Back to PSO2, this is a very successful and long-running series in Japan, with a history of failed overseas releases in Taiwan and SEA due to their gacha model that is much less welcomed outside of Japan.

For SEGA, global launch is great and all, but they don't need it. They have a solid foundation in Japan that makes them more than enough money, and anything on Global is just icing on the cake.

There's aboslutely no reason to put someone else in charge of NGS. And there's no reason to change their direction regardless of player feedback.

This is why SEGA is going to continue to ignore the differences in player sentiments, and continue to force their Japanese gacha model in this global release. If it fails, it's not a big deal for them. Their profits will take a hit, but it is far from the kind of literal doom that Square Enix was facing.

So a friend of mine has been farming redboxes, and she has it down to a science and this is what she tells me.

It takes a little over an hour to get a new account made, pushed through the tutorial, unlock the shop, grab all the boxes, and then buy a random capsule for a stupid price. She gets about 504k N-Meseta, which translates to around 450k to the main account.

She also says that it's mind-numbingly boring and requires your constant attention, and also requires you to map out the fastest possible route to grab all of the meseta boxes only, which also means knowing which boxes have the meseta.

It sounds like a lot of work for some decent gains. I don't think one person doing this for themselves is getting a game-breaking amount of N-Meseta. I think the problem is that the RMT groups that are scripting this kinda stuff are the ones that are getting a ton of money from it as they're doing it on multiple machines at a time.

I personally think the reason why this is happening is, SEGA hasn't given us any reason to make alt characters anymore. It actually COSTS YOU N-MESETA to make a new alt and get them through the story because it forces you to make a multiweapon and limit break it. In PSO2, I was definitely a meseta farmer. I had 26 characters and I ran weeklies on ALL OF THEM. That was 52 million base-game meseta per week. They took that away from me in NGS. Why?

Here's my solution to the problem. Change all meseta redboxes to SG, this stops people from farming the boxes. Enable us to do dailies/weeklies on multiple characters. Add a clause to the ToS stating that having more accounts than the number of ships is a bannable offense.

There's my two cents.

EDIT: Crap, sorry I didn't realize I was necroing an 8-day old thread.

@fridaywitch

Please just don't bring back multi character dailies weeklies. They would absolute fuck over any f2p double as hard since now they would have no access to the shop on top of passively generating meseta on a maximum of 3 characters vs whatever was the limit once you've paid. On top of that it forces you to repeat those mind numbingly boring daily tasks on 3 or more characters if you want to keep up.

If anything needs fixing it's having essentially daily/weekly login rewards used as the most important and efficient meseta generators, instead of having the economy running on a more classic model where doing content can generate a bulk of meseta in the system while being a simple time investment without specific sciences to break the developer intended caps. Of course that ain't gonna come true simply because the game is employing mobage tactics of time gated logins and shying away from just letting people play the game freely, and such things would also need to be protected from bots being used to farm meseta like that.

Please no multi-character benefits. And nothing wrong with bumping up an old thread that is still very much relevant.

The difficulty with multi-account is in how it is impossible to tell if any two accounts are legit or not, short of getting a court order to analyse the connection pattern, which cannot be realistically enforced globally.

On the other hand, the key to multi-account red box farming is in the ability to transfer funds. The moment that it costs too much to transfer funds, multi-account farming breaks down. For example, if capsules and grinders have a max price. This would mean that the farmer would have got the same amount of N-MST if the capsules and grinders were sold to any other player, and it can very well become impossible for them to tell which listing is their own.

What this would do, is that farmers would be forced to buy up very cheap AC items and use those to transfer funds. And the more of them who do this, the more expensive it becomes to transfer funds to their main accounts, and less profit.

Very cheap AC items are very cheap because nobody wants them. Even the vast majority of f2p players don't care to own them. Their only use is for recycling really. As an AC scratcher, I wouldn't mind to see some good meseta income from all the garbage I have accumulated. And jacking up the price of things nobody really wants is not a problem at all.

It will impact non scratcher (but premium set) income, if a max price is set on capsules. And in the end that may push more people to go multi-account.

So a combination of eliminating scalpers by making everything untradeable upon purchase, plus a max price on non-AC items, would probably be an effective solution.

@K-UwU said in Multi account red box hunters are destroying the market:

Perhaps the right decision would be to remove the meseta rewards from the weekly quests altogether. And instead, significantly increase the rewards for completing UQ, trials, etc.

So...Basically NGS cradle?

Jokes aside they probably can also adda meseta multiplier when a BSE burst is active.

@DevonRayMun the cradle it is.

But if we really put all the jokes aside, then the last survey just opened my eyes.

I used to think that the meaning of NGS Global would be like this. SEGA: 'Hello, friends from all over the world, we have an interesting franchise, and we want to give you the opportunity to enjoy it. As our fans in Japan are already doing.' But the truth is that everything is different. SEGA: 'Hey you, Gaijins, we heard that you are rich here, give us your money.'

All these strange decisions, such as a paid store, featured prices, lack of control over multi-accounts, lack of attention to specific problems of the global server, etc. All these are not bad decisions, we just do not correctly understand their purpose. NGS Global was never meant to be fun. It's goal is to catch whales and few dolphins. And milk them dry. The only mistake that Sega made is the platforms on which the game was released. They didn't release it on mobile. If they released a game with similar social interaction, an advanced ability to dress your hero, not bad gameplay on mobile, then it would probably even be able to compete with genshin impact.

But unfortunately for them, we, PC and console players, still expect the game to be interesting, we expect the developers to take our interests into account and improve the game, we expect fun. Modern media call it "toxic gamers"

Also, most likely it wasn't the evil Microsoft that forced them to release the game earlier. Release the game earlier = sell more AC scratches. Even absolutely garbage, like the current one. Just like that.

P.S. I apologize in advance for my frank opinion and that I am not trying to justify the Sega for their undisguised greed.