My idea to tweak Gigantix

So I've been thinking about all the controversy involving gigantix and the stress and drama the community has been feeling involving in. I decided to sit down and think of a solution to propose and I think I've had one.

Currently I think gigantix need scrapped in its current state and retooled. I think utilizing a similar system to Urgent Quests is the most ideal.

Put the gigantix in a queuable, instanced system blocked by a requirement of level 20 and battle power. While battle power isn't ideal or any sort of indicator it can at least separate fresh level 20s that might not be as fully geared into getting into content that they aren't ready for.

Now for the trigger itself. I say keep the trigger thunderstorms but let people fight it outside of the thunderstorm if they were queued for it while the storm was active.

Now for the thunderstorms themselves. Leave them on the rng timer it is BUT let's also add a change to this too. Add a slight bonuses to the chance of it triggering for EACH PSE burst in a tier 2 combat zone cleared on the block and make it stackable. (Example if there is a 1% chance of a thunderstorm occurring every minute, add a .01 chance increase for each PSE burst so one burst would make it a 1.01% chance each minute, 2 would be 1.02, etc). The numbers can be obviously tweaked but hopefully it makes sense in what I'm saying.

Why change this? It would make level 20s feel like they have a chance to trigger it and be an active participant rather than just standing around waiting passively. Level 15-19s would also be able to help trigger that storm and be seen as helpful rather than an obstacle. They would also have bigger groups that would help them farm through those levels and gear to get them BP that would help them then in turn, help level and gear the next generation and keep people flowing through to gigantix as content.

This is just an idea I had been mulling over the past few days. I know it isn't a perfect solution and have no clue how the back end code of the game is and how viable it would be but I feel this would be a step in that direction.

I agree that the approach to Gigantic needs to be revisited, but a more simple version would be to implement the rank 2 system from combat sectors into a theoretical rank 2 system for exploration sectors.

There would be specific requirements to enter rank 2 exploration sectors such as..

  1. Level 20 requirements
  2. 1300 BP requirements
  3. Completed the latest story mission/task.

I disagree on utilizing a similar system to Urgent Quests tho because that aspect should be kept to Urgent Quests only to make it what it is. Gigantix isn't really on the level of what UQ is as imo it's just a buff variant of pre-existing field bosses whereas the bosses in UQ are more unique in a sense at least.

I also disagree on leaving it on an rng timer because then there is no aspect of control over it and rng being rng is a recipe for disaster. For example, if we're all truly unlucky for a period of time, then theoretically a thunderstorm could never occur over a very long period of time. However, if there are set times or a schedule or pattern that allows predictability, then that's fine imo. There's also the speculation after the latest maintenance that Gigantix actually spawns on a pre-determine scheduled whereas the JP Vets who released the timers for Global pre-maintenance have seen the Gigantix spawning in the same time periods as last week iirc.

TLDR:

Rank 2 Exploration Sectors is a viable solution as supposedly they should have the code from Rank 2 Combat sectors to use whether its copy/paste or as reference.

Pre-determine spawn times for Gigantix is the way to go so people know when to prepare/when it's coming to do other stuff during down time.

Enabling an RNG system imo is never a good thing because there is no control whatsoever on the developer side or the player side if there is no bottom line to ensure a minimum/safety net.

Gigantix are bad content and any effort into fixing it other than patching them out to be less annoying by extending duration is an absolute waste. If your players are actively "hunting" Gigantix by idling until a storm then the design is a failure. Similarly what's the point of Gigantix if for all intents and purposes it's just another UQ in a different system. It's funny how many players are now asking for rank 2 Exploration zones having only in mind using these to gate Gigantix rather than expand the amount of content for players to run with at least level 20+ enemies.

@Hooonter It's funny saying a piece of content is subjectively bad due to bad experiences leading to a biased negative perspective of it without waiting a couple days to a week to have some more time to contemplate on it a bit more after a "fix" was applied.

What is an absolute waste is flat out abandoning content that was brainstormed/created/outputted over a long period of time as clearly it was content available in CBT as that's a true example of an absolute waste in terms of manpower/resources/time and effort.

The players you talk of that actively "hunt" Gigantix by idling until a storm are pug groups that the average player would experience.

The people that I personally run with don't idle until a storm, but go on to do other things whether its IRL or supposedly other productive things in-game. There are sources to rely on to predict when the storm comes and goes plus enough speculation/rumors to assume that Gigantix may not spawn accordingly to a pre-determine schedule.

It's also funny thinking that expanding the amount of content for players to run with at the current max level is easily achievable and can be quickly implemented. Clearly you're not a realist nor a game designer/developer. Then again you are ignorant and may not be aware of the road map that they publicly released that states when specific content will arrive be it new classes/quests/titles/mission pass/etc

@Kami-Sama

We had about a week of playing it with one fix already. My opinion of it remained the same as before because it's based on intrinsic qualities of the content piece.

What is an absolute waste is flat out abandoning content that was brainstormed/created/outputted over a long period of time as clearly it was content available in CBT as that's a true example of an absolute waste in terms of manpower/resources/time and effort.

Damn, abandoning what's essentially a boss with purple shine and level 24 stats. Surely that took entire months to make. In the first place I said not to waste more manpower than implementing basic fixes that just make storm idling less relevant.

There are sources to rely on to predict when the storm comes and goes plus enough speculation/rumors to assume that Gigantix may not spawn accordingly to a pre-determine schedule.

Great and do I really need to explain how

  • a) Schedule just made it into a worse UQ where you idle in the town instead until a gigantix drops which even you admit with the IRL part.
  • b) Schedule was a bug and now Sega somehow reused the same schedule/RNG seed so we have a rerun but neither of it is a proper game mechanic. That makes it objectively bad if you need to rely on outside sources to make the content bearable.

It's also funny thinking that expanding the amount of content for players to run with at the current max level is easily achievable and can be quickly implemented. Clearly you're not a realist nor a game designer/developer. Then again you are ignorant and may not be aware of the road map that they publicly released that states when specific content will arrive be it new classes/quests/titles/mission pass/etc

I am a great realist. We just happened to have EP6 when the director could churn out endgame content on a reasonable pace with quarter of the budget because he could be assed to implement level 100 enemies for level 100 players and not make it into limited time supposedly random events. I am also aware of the roadmap that looks like complete shit. Why are exploration/combat zones enemies capped at level 15 max? Only the current NGS director knows who just happened to be the one behind the worst PSO2 episode (5) as the guy who cleaned up his shit is now degraded to just being the item director. For the next month our content schedule includes placing random emblems on enemies that just change their elemental weakness, and switching which enemies appear with purple aura. Realistically even skeleton team could've made a more riveting quest by just going through assets already in the game. Why isn't any cocoon used as a reasonable level 20 dungeon? This is also a great mystery that wouldn't require much manpower to just place enemies already present in an easy to play with trainia environment.

@Hooonter

We had about a week of playing it with one fix already. My opinion of it remained the same as before because it's based on intrinsic qualities of the content piece.

Cool, if that's your opinion I respect that, but at the same time to say or suggest that any effort into fixing a small piece of content is an absolute waste that could arguably be considered one part of the few available end-game options or "content" that there is to offer right now to max players is a bit ???

My perception of what you're trying to say is that okay, Gigantix is shit content don't bother fixing it at all and leave it alone, which I think is like ... well if something is broken or not functioning as intended, then it should be fix/corrected regardless or not if it consumes a lot of time/manpower/resources.

Damn, abandoning what's essentially a boss with purple shine and level 24 stats. Surely that took entire months to make. In the first place I said not to waste more manpower than implementing basic fixes that just make storm idling less relevant.

Sure, I can agree that recoloring a boss and simply adjusting the stats to hit harder and tank harder could potentially be fairly easy to code in. However, you seem to forget that it's also tied to the weather system or thunderstorms specifically. Essentially, it's a time attack whereas thunderstorms have a pre-determined/scheduled time or maybe it was originally suppose to be completely random which would be the real difficult part to code/change/adjust/abandon/what have you. Also, you seem to be more focused more on the production and post-production aspect rather than the pre-production aspect of how the idea of Gigantix came to be.

Anyways, storm idling is a player choice imo. It's not something imposed/forced onto players. The developers have no control over the individual's actions. Hence, I think implementing basic fixes real intention is to address a bug/something that isn't functioning as intended. Imo, idling is engrained or a natural thing to do whether players are from classic pso2, new players, casual or hardcore. Plenty of people used to idle in classic pso2 lobby, plenty of people used to idle in Central City in NGS, and now plenty of people idle in exploration sectors waiting for a storm to come whether they have a 3rd pt source to tell them when or not and go watch netflix/hulu/anime/kdrama/ etc

Great and do I really need to explain how

  • a) Schedule just made it into a worse UQ where you idle in the town instead until a gigantix drops which even you admit with the IRL part.
  • b) Schedule was a bug and now Sega somehow reused the same schedule/RNG seed so we have a rerun but neither of it is a proper game mechanic. That makes it objectively bad if you need to rely on outside sources to make the content bearable.

To not have any structure/foundation or in this case a schedule for Gigantix to go on off, but to rely on a RNG seed instead is objectively bad game design. There is no control whatsoever on the devs/players/or 3rd pt to predict when they come and go.

The schedule wasn't necessary the bug, but the length of storms assuming it went off on RNG seed where storms can be 30 seconds, 1 minute to like 4 mins to 10 mins. There was no control whatsoever, but when the developers applied a fix or a bottom/minimum line, then players at least have 5 to 6 minutes to take down Gigantix. Failure to do so then falls on the group of people or individuals in that group then whether they're under level, under geared, not skilled enough so they keep dying, no ranger, no tech, etc

I can agree with you that relying on outside sources to predict when thunderstorms comes and goes is bad and questionable. However, I would at least give them the benefit of the doubt and wait a couple more months if I or others had the patience to see if they would do anything to improve or add another feature/npc that forecast weather. There may be actual npc in central city somewhere that is in charge of forecasting weather, but for whatever reason they have yet to release that feature so that forces players to temporarily rely on outside sources for predictions.

I am a great realist. We just happened to have EP6 when the director could churn out endgame content on a reasonable pace with quarter of the budget because he could be assed to implement level 100 enemies for level 100 players and not make it into limited time supposedly random events. I am also aware of the roadmap that looks like complete shit. Why are exploration/combat zones enemies capped at level 15 max? Only the current NGS director knows who just happened to be the one behind the worst PSO2 episode (5) as the guy who cleaned up his shit is now degraded to just being the item director. For the next month our content schedule includes placing random emblems on enemies that just change their elemental weakness, and switching which enemies appear with purple aura. Realistically even skeleton team could've made a more riveting quest by just going through assets already in the game. Why isn't any cocoon used as a reasonable level 20 dungeon? This is also a great mystery that wouldn't require much manpower to just place enemies already present in an easy to play with trainia environment.

Great to know you're a great realist, but are you a JP Vet or started when classic PSO2 hit global. If you're a global player, then you would know we had 8 or so years of content packed into essentially 1 year. According to PSO2 fandom website, JP PSO2 episode 6 actually was released in 2019 whereas global classic pso2 wasn't released until March/April 2020. I would then assume as my memory doesn't recall that global EP6 dropped sometime in Feb to April of 2021. So, Japan had ep6 for 2 or so years already whereas global was still trying to reach parity with Japan. Hence, you think the director during ep6 could churn out endgame content on a reasonable pace on a quarter budget when in reality that content existed for over 2 years already LOOOOL.

TLDR, it's not up to us to question the decisions the director/developers. We can provide unproductive complaints or provide suggestions be it reasonable or unrealistic. I try to understand both sides of the stories and give the benefit of the doubt where their standpoint is they had supposedly months or years to look ahead till now to plan what they want release and want they want to be released later.

This month has all random emblems on enemies that just change their elemental weakness, and switching which enemies appear with purple aura and what have you mainly because

  1. It's PSO2 9th anniversary omegalul
  2. It's a transition into summer whether you want to take it symbolically/literally/or what have you

Lastly, giving multiple roles/reasons/incentives or however you want to describe the idea of giving cocoons a side thing like also being a reasonable level 20 dungeon is ? That wouldn't make cocoons cocoons, but strip it of its identity/purpose. Cocoons are meant to give skill points and towers are meant to give skill points, but supposedly to be a bit more difficult or at least a bigger time sink.

Dungeons may give skill points or may have another purpose later on such as being crowned as true end-game content. However, I am sure dungeons will arrive in 2022 with the major winter update if you even bothered to try to look around the internet for leaks to show a pyramid shape building in the desert region right next to Aelio.

Before you go, oh what a great mystery on why not release content in mass bulk, well

  1. Rushers are going to rush to clear everything then ask for more content like you once they complete
  2. People going to complain about how shitty it may be and ask for more "shit" content lul
  3. The director/developers own opinion of how pacing should go
  4. It hasn't even been a full month yet since the game released lol

Good discussion tho. Very entertaining and great way to kill time at work tho 😉 thanks

of the few available end-game options or "content" that there is to offer right now to max players is a bit ???

Fixing it is better done by adding more than a few end game options, not drowning resources into one dud.

My perception of what you're trying to say is that okay, Gigantix is shit content don't bother fixing it at all and leave it alone, which I think is like ... well if something is broken or not functioning as intended, then it should be fix/corrected regardless or not if it consumes a lot of time/manpower/resources.

The problem is that you're tunnel visioning and can't fathom that fixing Gigantix mechanics would be essentially making it another thing, at which point it's easier to just release another good thing.

However, you seem to forget that it's also tied to the weather system or thunderstorms specifically

Spawning enemies during specific conditions isn't hard to cod.

Anyways, storm idling is a player choice imo. It's not something imposed/forced onto players. The developers have no control over the individual's actions.

That's not how it goes. Developers must predict and react to player actions to be good at the whole game directing thing. The problem here is that all always available content it basically limited to level 15 max open world that seems entirely focused on experience for leveling sub 20 players. That's the problem with the idling. I don't want to idle but I can't play most of the endgame-ish content without waiting for it despite promises of less UQ importance in NGS.

Failure to do so then falls on the group of people or individuals in that group then whether they're under level, under geared, not skilled enough so they keep dying, no ranger, no tech, etc

And as I said many times Gigantix was put in such place that you can't expect or manipulate your group to be competent, hence any degree of difficulty is down to things outside your control meaning it's the wrong kind of difficulty that doesn't add anyting.

Great to know you're a great realist, but are you a JP Vet

JP vet, and I know that any time I logged in during EP6 I could do several endgame quests when I want without even waiting for one of the many UH UQs. I don't even know how to begin to respond to a random wall of text that somehow tries to move topics between what was written on the roadmap, what director meant or whatever. Truth is the game hasn't even released with a bundle of engaging activities for level 20 players so why the hell shouldn't you expect them to quickly add something? The problem is prone to repeat if they add Winter's update level 35 cap but also make veteran monsters level 30, UQs level 32, and then you can only hunt level 39 Gigantix.

Fixing it is better done by adding more than a few end game options, not drowning resources into one dud.

The problem is that you're tunnel visioning and can't fathom that fixing Gigantix mechanics would be essentially making it another thing, at which point it's easier to just release another good thing.

Are you not tunnel visioning yourself? To me from my perspective, you are implying that you believe its realistically possible to churn out new content in just 1 to 2 days? Gigantix dropped on the 23rd and then the thunderstorm extension/stablize fix was applied within 24 to 48 hours. Using said same manpower/resources/time frame, do you believe it's that easy to make another good thing or another piece of content? I don't think you understand how content for game is specifically bought/coded into it because to me it seems like you have a misconception that developers/coders/designers go into a meeting for a few hours to brainstorm/conceptualize an idea/content or in this case Gigantix. Then make it fancy with color + stats tuning + tie to spawning/depsawning to specific conditions. Afterwards, get the approval, codes it in, test to see if functional and release. So, do you think that is all feasible in a 24 to 48 hour time frame.

Spawning enemies during specific conditions isn't hard to cod.

Oh, my bad didn't you know you were also a coder expert or someone with deep knowledge of coding. Then again my own speculation on it tho was that it was originally like what you said way earlier that it could have been based on a RNG seed which I would like to believe is some complex code unless its a b c and you leave it to go on its own which once again imo bad game design as there should be some sort of control factor/bottom line/safety net such as a schedule or 5-6 minute time attack style to pass or fail.

That's not how it goes. Developers must predict and react to player actions to be good at the whole game directing thing. The problem here is that all always available content it basically limited to level 15 max open world that seems entirely focused on experience for leveling sub 20 players. That's the problem with the idling. I don't want to idle but I can't play most of the endgame-ish content without waiting for it despite promises of less UQ importance in NGS.

Imo this is subjective and unreasonable. They must predict and react to player actions?Sorry, but developers in the end are not gods and not mind-readers. I can agree with you that the majority of available content is limited to level 15 and what not. I can also agree with you if you share the same belief that they should have just waited until 2022 to release with all their current planned content on the roadmap, but I believe this conversation would just be inevitable. You reach max level, you experience another content like Gigantix that has its bugs/flaws which leads to biased negative opinion of it and then ask/demand for new content + ignore the broken stuff. This would just constantly repeat and you or others will never be satisfied.

I frankly don't place much emphasis on how they want to direct the game. I place much more emphasis on how fun the game is, how beautiful it may be graphics wise and what is done to address bugs or things that aren't functioning as intended. To have high expectations or demands and to have them met or exceeded is unreasonable imo. Some may argue that, "Oh I put my money and time into this so they should at least reciprocate it back." I don't align with that train of thought as this was the individual decision to do so. The developers didn't ask or force the individual or others to do so. The developers simply developed and released a game where people can go enjoy it for a brief chapter of their life until they move on to find a better game or IRL responsibilities.

And as I said many times Gigantix was put in such place that you can't expect or manipulate your group to be competent, hence any degree of difficulty is down to things outside your control meaning it's the wrong kind of difficulty that doesn't add anyting.

This mostly just applies to pug groups. You can put together a pre-made, find a empty room for 1/32, then assemble at the gathering point before it spawns and take it down. My original suggestion/post was to propose a rank 2 exploration sector for a reasonable amount of expectation/control over how competent the group may be. Then you come in saying that is an absolute waste to do so and later imply that they could easily release a new piece of content in 24 to 48 hour time frame which was the amount of time it took to apply a fix to stabilize or make Gigantix more feasible.

JP vet, and I know that any time I logged in during EP6 I could do several endgame quests when I want without even waiting for one of the many UH UQs. I don't even know how to begin to respond to a random wall of text that somehow tries to move topics between what was written on the roadmap, what director meant or whatever. Truth is the game hasn't even released with a bundle of engaging activities for level 20 players so why the hell shouldn't you expect them to quickly add something? The problem is prone to repeat if they add Winter's update level 35 cap but also make veteran monsters level 30, UQs level 32, and then you can only hunt level 39 Gigantix.

Cool, you're a JP Vet, you prob have years of experience of playing on Classic PSO2 and may have been part of for maybe 8 or so years. However, you're playing NGS PSO2 now and that game hasn't even been out for a month yet LOL. To have the same standards from a game with a deep foundation to a game that is relatively new, but drawn heavily inspiration would make me not know how to respond.

I may not be able to articulate accurately what I want to say and this is just how I am to get my thoughts out there, but if you going to voice your opinion/thoughts on something outright with negativity and toxicity, then you should expect a possible wall of text if you want to engage in a discussion whether its civil/toxic/productive/past the time at work kinda thing lul. If you're not willing to do so, then you shouldn't have voiced unproductive shit in the first place KEK.

Lastly, you are now making yourself seem way to entitled with your unrealistic expectations when they clearly released a road map that subjectively seems shitty or niche. Best to find a new game to entertain you or to match your expectations as clearly NGS drops the ball for you.

@Hooonter said in My idea to tweak Gigantix:

Only the current NGS director knows who just happened to be the one behind the worst PSO2 episode (5)

So the one in charge is the same fool who wanted to make the entirety of that episode focus on buster quests? Damn, that would explain a lot.