The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch")

@Hooonter said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

The content wasn't designed for higher level characters either, as it should be obvious seeing how it drops 4* gear when the next level cap is assured to have at least one higher rarity.

The enemies are designed to be killed by level 24+characters due to how the system nerfs damage from characters lower level than the target. A level 21 character attacking a Aelio Gigantix would do close to double the damage to them even in the same exact gear. Level 24s can be killed by level 20s but

3* and 4* gear is an appropriate reward for killing a level 24 enemy and the Straga and Greant gear should stay more or less competitive with limit breaking while being exclusive to Aelio Gigantixs. The next area's Gigas should be dropping an exclusive 5* series but will be level 39 enemies.

@ultimatecalibur said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

That is very wrong. Things are design such that early game resources are needed for late game gear. The level 35 BiS gear will likely require you to go back and farm Ael Note A/B/C/Ds for Ael Domina and Gigas Might/Precision/Technique will likely get a Mastery or Gigas Mastery version in the future.

This is assuming that there won't just be another level 39 gigas series that drops in the new Winter zones which drops the level 35 BiS augment mats, which I wouldn't be very surprised about. I doubt they'd have the endgame gear be based on some spooky enemy that only shows up in rare conditions, but is actually really easy to kill because you're 10 levels above it.

@ultimatecalibur Their making it lvl 24 to be fought by lvl 20's wasn't an accident or oversight. This is a common practice in any game that has a level difference damage formula built in. Level cap content would always see the hardest enemies multiple levels beyond the level cap of players.

@ultimatecalibur This is assuming they wont have an [NewAreaShortName] Domina that is an upgraded version of Ael that occupies the same category. I think they will do that, as well as introduce grade IV and higher, probably up to VI, of current augments that go up to III.

I dont think they will have us coming back to farm too much from Aelio. Open world MMO's often add new materials to be found for the next best thing in area expansions with level cap increases. It wouldn't be a surprise to me if most of our stockpiled recourses aside from N-meseta aren't much of a use for the new stuff.

@DeliciousPies Also, they may have made some more back end changes as there hasnt been a single 3 hour wait since the 1st day. In fact there have been more back to back storms and no more than a very uncommon 2hr wait for break time.

@AngryRhombus563 On this i can agree. the back to back storms are a vast improvement from pre patch. and while the wait times have not been too horrible, i have experienced some of the 2 hours+ waits post-patch, and i have seen people wait in these rooms for the longer timers, only to have the giga hunt fail miserably on them too. it's something i don't like to see happen, as it's bad for those in the community that are "trying" to farm gigas.

That said, it does give me hope that while they might not publicly acknowledge the community's "direct" feed back, they do make an effort to make things better. Transparency is something hard to get out of a company, especially in an mmo where they don't necessarily want players know every last detail of the game down to the minute storms happen...

That said, if players have to go out of their way to data mine when a storm will happen. or rely on JP timers 3 hour difference for magical thunderstorm "clairvoyance" to know when they will happen back to back in the first place... something's wrong with the design of the game.

I worry because if this crappy giga situation is simply repeated, time and again each new level cap or area, we're all in for a BAD time each new content update.

  • we NEED in game timers to alert people of storms, so people aren't sitting around watching twitter or the PSO2 main discord for when storms actually happen

  • we NEED a way to make sure people that are at giga are the people that are suppose to be there, that to me means Rank 2 Exploration zone so you can simply gate the current cap's end game, strongest monster. to those actually able to deal damage to it.

Then there is no toxic players saying "get out noobs" and the new casual people don't feel gate kept by other players in their community. at the end of the day it is an open world game, these monsters are the only thing i currently find "fun" to fight. and I'm sure that feeling is mutual between everyone that sits around 2 hours to wait to fight one for 5 minutes

@DeliciousPies said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

That said, if players have to go out of their way to data mine when a storm will happen. or rely on JP timers 3 hour difference for magical thunderstorm "clairvoyance" to know when they will happen back to back in the first place... something's wrong with the design of the game.

This honestly isn't that big of an issue, since what the NGS community is doing right now, is basically what the Guild Wars 2 community does with World Bosses. Now that we know Gigantix are on a specific respawn timer, and can more accurately predict when they're going to pop, it's no longer an issue of sitting around on your hands for an hour hoping that they spawn ala FFXI and it's HNM farming days.

@DeliciousPies said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

we NEED a way to make sure people that are at giga are the people that are suppose to be there, that to me means Rank 2 Exploration zone so you can simply gate the current cap's end game, strongest monster. to those actually able to deal damage to it.

That said - this IS an issue, and one Sega does need to try to address. The best method I can think of off the top of my head would to simply have the a system in place where the Gigantics only scale based on the number of level 20 characters around it, and anyone level 19 or below does not affect the monster's scaling, nor will receive any drops or XP if they're in the immediate vicinity of the boss when it dies. Now, whether or not that's feasible with NGS's engine is another story entirely, but it's better than the alternative of creating a Tier 2 exploration zone specifically for Gigantics.

Either way - killing them is becoming much easier and more efficient (atleast on Ship 1), and really anyone whose level 20 and wants to kill a Gigantic now can do easily do so by just hopping to a populated block and going to Central, asking for a respawn time on the big guy, then chilling out or returning when the time gets closer to spawn.

If you want things to change for the better, you need to make your voice known but most importantly: Stop playing (not stop paying, but stop playing, because playing is still good for the company, even for free)

Episode 5 of PSO2 got hugely negative reception and a lot of people stopped playing, and this is how we got the incredible Episode 6 afterwards as SEGA wanted to bring fans back (which then begs the question of how NGS released in its current state instead of building off the positives of Episode 6, but I digress).

People engaging with this content will mean SEGA will never change it, and it seems like most people are doing just that.

@ultimatecalibur They are not designed to be killed by level 24+ character, they are just scaled so it's hard to kill them as level 20 characters.

and the Straga and Greant gear should stay more or less competitive with limit breaking while being exclusive to Aelio Gigantixs.

They shouldn't just how Theseus isn't staying competitive with 4* rarities.

@DeliciousPies

I am amazed how easily players can accept bad content if developers just make it less tedious and easier to win. Gigantix if anything should be a footnote to open world exploration with less importance than veteran monsters. Just spawn these during a storm and let them stay up for full half an hour if not killed immediately. The DPS check part of Gigantix is completely unnecessary and forces players into trying to adapt to random weather rather than just treating it as a bigger veteran monster to beat up.

It's also amazing how players immediately fire up their ideas about rank 2 zones, not because they somehow noticed our level 20 characters vastly power creep all those level 15 and below enemies, but as a gating mechanic for Gigantix hunting parties. Why not just have rank 2 exploration zones that are meant for fighting level 20 enemies instead? Why not instead have rank 2 UQs with level 24 enemies that can be actually made hard with a deathlimit and a DPS check that isn't beholden to random weather patterns or getting a headstart on it?

@Matt said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

If you want things to change for the better, you need to make your voice known but most importantly: Stop playing (not stop paying, but stop playing, because playing is still good for the company, even for free)

Episode 5 of PSO2 got hugely negative reception and a lot of people stopped playing, and this is how we got the incredible Episode 6 afterwards as SEGA wanted to bring fans back (which then begs the question of how NGS released in its current state instead of building off the positives of Episode 6, but I digress).

People engaging with this content will mean SEGA will never change it, and it seems like most people are doing just that.

Most likely because the JP players were just as loud(though I don't know if PSO2 JP had ep 6 before PSO2 Global), but SEGA will budge for home field that's a fact. I mean it can't be that they are also ok with any of this either, since all versions now share the same updates on the same day.

So unless JP complains about it, it’s not an issue? XD

@Miranda said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

Most likely because the JP players were just as loud(though I don't know if PSO2 JP had ep 6 before PSO2 Global), but SEGA will budge for home field that's a fact.

The Japanese version was well on their way out with Episode 6 by the time the Global version released (they were about two chapters away from the end of the story). Global players have no input in the direction of the content because by the time we got Episode 4 (July) they were on the second-to-last chapter of Episode 6 and in-between Episode 4 and 5 for us they already finished Episode 6. When Episode 5 released globally - they already had the Luster and the Hero rebalances (or were very close to getting it as this was September). The only time the global version was touched was for events (Independence Day and Thanksgiving) as well as when Sega jumped into nerf the Dark Falz [Elder] (Normal) fight who was exploited in their Trigger Quest to give out a great deal of Meseta - if you don't include the Fresh Finds Shop and the Mission Pass as well (to which the Japanese version got a more polished and rewarding Mission Pass).

By the time we got Episode 6 on Global (December), the Japanese side was already "dying" because Sega had little in the way of new story and new events. They got solo Sodam, a Christmas event, and continued to get collaborations - but the literal next big "update" was the Graphics Engine update in March following their two Closed Betas for New Genesis.

This time, however, we are now on the same pacing except the Japanese players see things hours before we do (such as Gigantix enemies so you can track them based on where Japanese version players fought them and when).

@AngryRhombus563 said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

@ultimatecalibur This is assuming they wont have an [NewAreaShortName] Domina that is an upgraded version of Ael that occupies the same category. I think they will do that, as well as introduce grade IV and higher, probably up to VI, of current augments that go up to III.

I dont think they will have us coming back to farm too much from Aelio. Open world MMO's often add new materials to be found for the next best thing in area expansions with level cap increases. It wouldn't be a surprise to me if most of our stockpiled recourses aside from N-meseta aren't much of a use for the new stuff.

If Guardian Soul is anything to go by in Phantasy Star Online 2 (the ultimate affix), I can definitely imagine having to revisit every area in the game over the years to collect capsules (or to stock up on them) to combine them into ultimate affixes. To manually grind this out the "old" way would have been nightmarish considering the crafting recipes for creating Catalysts to boost success rates to the point where quests like Cradle of Darkness literally dropped these outright so you can easily craft Guardian Soul for the most part without too many issues. I would imagine Sega might have something in mind for keeping these areas relevant - but that definitely remains to be seen.

@Blade-Syphon said in The way Giga's currently despawn vs the 3 hour wait time (and thoughts on "patch"):

That said - this IS an issue, and one Sega does need to try to address. The best method I can think of off the top of my head would to simply have the a system in place where the Gigantics only scale based on the number of level 20 characters around it, and anyone level 19 or below does not affect the monster's scaling, nor will receive any drops or XP if they're in the immediate vicinity of the boss when it dies. Now, whether or not that's feasible with NGS's engine is another story entirely, but it's better than the alternative of creating a Tier 2 exploration zone specifically for Gigantics.

I like your idea. the current issue right now i am noticing from 32 man rooms, is you can be as nice or as "mean" about asking lower levels that are in a 32 man zone to leave as you want... but at the end of the day that lv 15 or 12 or 19 even, don't have to listen to the 31 other people there. and if they get loot regardless of their damage put in, then that's really no issue of theirs to just sit nearby after hitting it once, or fight it outright (to which i say, if it's so easy to do this as a lv 15, all the level 15's trying to do it should group up together in 32 player rooms, and then ask if that's viable still)

Either way - killing them is becoming much easier and more efficient (at least on Ship 1), and really anyone whose level 20 and wants to kill a Gigantic now can do easily do so by just hopping to a populated block and going to Central, asking for a respawn time on the big guy, then chilling out or returning when the time gets closer to spawn.

And on this i agree entirely. and lv 20 should be a great help, I have seen this info floating around:

image0.png

I feel like anyone reasonable could look at this, and then see why each person out of that 5 level range are dealing about half the damage (or significantly less than) sega intends level 20 people to be dealing vs a giga, even IF they have god units from base pso2, or a high BP but low main class level. and for each person hitting it the boss gets more hp.

To me this is meaning some people take advantage that, "the rest will cover the difference for me, what's everyone's problem" when it should be more of a "We're all the right level, and we can do this together if we coordinate". one of these is good for community. one is not.

Truly, there is no good excuse when leveling to 20 is a very easy task. and the giga drops are not mind-blowingly awesome or even needed to progress else where in the game. even someone casually playing at a level 20, is more use than a +40 op geared.... level 15

Yeah, a lot of people really don't seem to grasp that in NGS, Sega is using the traditional style of MMO's where enemies that are significantly higher level than you will take reduced, or in this case no, damage from your attacks, and are still in the mindset of "Oh well it's ONLY one level difference, I'm super well geared, what's the difference!".

It's partly a level of players still not understanding the change in mechanics from PSO2, and another part of people just being stubborn and thinking they're "Helping" by plinking 1-0 damage on an enemy that's five levels higher than they are.

I love the Gigantix concept, it's fun to have a boss that spawns in the world that's not part of an UQ, and actually requires you to have good gear to kill before it despawns, it gives a reason to actually be augmenting all those tier 3 affixes onto your units, awakening your potential on your weapon, hunting for innate potentials, all that fun crap.

But the one thing that is irritating me is, as you said, low levels showing up, and basically ruining it for others. I used Guild Wars 2 as an example before, and again I'll bring it up, as Anet ran into the very same issue when they introduced world bosses that actually required communication, proper builds and end-game gear, to kill. A lot of casual players would join a map, not do the mechanics, and just auto attack the boss thinking it was like any other world boss in the game up to that point, and screw over the other hundred or so players trying to complete it.

Anet's answer was to allow Guilds to create private instances of the map so they could fight the boss themselves, which worked, but it basically turned the world bosses from an organiclly spawning even in the open world, to essentially a one boss raid instance. I don't think Gigantix need that much, they do need to have the scaling adjusted so that people hitting 1-0 damage don't contribute to the bosses scaling, and alternatively don't get rewarded. It doesn't take a full group of 32 to kill a Gigantix, so as long as we can weed out the low levels that aren't contributing, but still adding to the scaling, in some capacity, than that's really all the system needs to be functional without having to rely on creating private instance triggers for them, and effectively just turn them into mini-UQs.

@Blade-Syphon

This sort of post is exactly the kind of thing i hope pso2NGS read. well written post

I see a few on twitter that are like "wow people expect so much more content on launch, this isn't WoW or diablo, NGS is fine relax and wait for more content".... and it's like no, that's not the issue. People just want the content that IS here to be "good" and not the way gigas work atm. let alone future content if it just copies mistakes of giga all over, and this song and dance happens every time.

for me the issues are things like the giga's despawn (with the way HP scaling works atm).

that this new content makes people say "anyone below level 20 get out" in an open world exploration game

that it makes people fight in game. be it vets being too mean, or new people not understanding, arguments happen a lot

that it makes it possible for multiple trolls and toxic people to simple come in to rooms on level 15 or lower characters and just tank the chances to beating a boss purposefully, or afk for loot. ^ https://twitter.com/TheuberClips/status/1409739297058603013

the stuff that isn't "bug reported" but affects community.

If sega handled gigas better i think there would have been less angry people and dislikes on the first live stream event NGS hosted this morning. but that kind of thing feels like one of the few places to actually be seen by our developers