Foibles for force

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Foibles for force:

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

Don't get me wrong, I love how the rod plays, but the damage capacity of it is simply subpar.

And it isn't just "get good", hunter just holding normal attack has better dps than force alt text

If somebody wonders about elemental photon bullet from guarding its dps is 250, so while it regens pp greatly and advances barta and zonde stacks, it doesn't actually help with dps more than "being dps during enemy attack" and keeping PP high

Yeah, you’re going to have show a hunter doing a run faster than what I just did using just normal attacks, cause without any evidence you’re are basically just making stuff up.

I get more than 250 damage from my counters, and yeah it only helps with dps during enemy attacks, because its a counter based skill, not sure what your point is here has your stating the obvious

These are damage multipliers, not flat damage... 250 dps here means that it has same dps as spamming a skill with 250% potency that has same animation time...

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Foibles for force:

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

Don't get me wrong, I love how the rod plays, but the damage capacity of it is simply subpar.

And it isn't just "get good", hunter just holding normal attack has better dps than force alt text

If somebody wonders about elemental photon bullet from guarding its dps is 250, so while it regens pp greatly and advances barta and zonde stacks, it doesn't actually help with dps more than "being dps during enemy attack" and keeping PP high

Yeah, you’re going to have show a hunter doing a run faster than what I just did using just normal attacks, cause without any evidence you’re are basically just making stuff up.

I get more than 250 damage from my counters, and yeah it only helps with dps during enemy attacks, because its a counter based skill, not sure what your point is here has your stating the obvious

These are damage multipliers, not flat damage... 250 dps here means that it has same dps as spamming a skill with 250% potency that has same animation time...

You’re still not taking into account other factors like the fact the mobs jump and move, which means you need to run and keep up with hunter to do your normal attacks, plus skills and abilities that stack to help increase damage and create dps phases. If hunter can really has better dps than force with just normals then it should be easy to show in an actual run.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Foibles for force:

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Foibles for force:

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

Don't get me wrong, I love how the rod plays, but the damage capacity of it is simply subpar.

And it isn't just "get good", hunter just holding normal attack has better dps than force alt text

If somebody wonders about elemental photon bullet from guarding its dps is 250, so while it regens pp greatly and advances barta and zonde stacks, it doesn't actually help with dps more than "being dps during enemy attack" and keeping PP high

Yeah, you’re going to have show a hunter doing a run faster than what I just did using just normal attacks, cause without any evidence you’re are basically just making stuff up.

I get more than 250 damage from my counters, and yeah it only helps with dps during enemy attacks, because its a counter based skill, not sure what your point is here has your stating the obvious

These are damage multipliers, not flat damage... 250 dps here means that it has same dps as spamming a skill with 250% potency that has same animation time...

You’re still not taking into account other factors like the fact the mobs jump and move, which means you need to run and keep up with hunter to do your normal attacks, plus skills and abilities that stack to help increase damage and create dps phases. If hunter can really has better dps than force with just normals then it should be easy to show in an actual run.

Also worth noting that force atm has the highest effective range in the game, if you are locked on, you can hit it. I haven't really had problems doing damage on force, I see it as more of a counter class (ALA Katana Braver in base). Photon Bullet is pretty powerful and can be stored. Other classes have to activate the counter or lose it but force has the option to save it if there isnt enough time to use a tech. Also keep in mind that Force basically has infinite PP, so while other classes have to take time to get PP back force can just keep attacking.

Force definitely feels like the by far safest class out of all the ones I've played so far too. Though it does kinda feel bad losing a ton of dmg if you don't have aggro.

@Rorana said in Foibles for force:

Also worth noting that force atm has the highest effective range in the game, if you are locked on, you can hit it. I haven't really had problems doing damage on force, I see it as more of a counter class (ALA Katana Braver in base). Photon Bullet is pretty powerful and can be stored. Other classes have to activate the counter or lose it but force has the option to save it if there isnt enough time to use a tech.

Force definitely feels like the by far safest class out of all the ones I've played so far too. Though it does kinda feel bad losing a ton of dmg if you don't have aggro.

But you don't want to store the bullet. There is always time you get iframes if you cast a tech right after a block or dodge.

As for other classe, the step counter of all classes is incredibly short, there is rarely a situation when you can't do it. (If you don't get iframes on counters in the first place...)

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@Rorana said in Foibles for force:

Also worth noting that force atm has the highest effective range in the game, if you are locked on, you can hit it. I haven't really had problems doing damage on force, I see it as more of a counter class (ALA Katana Braver in base). Photon Bullet is pretty powerful and can be stored. Other classes have to activate the counter or lose it but force has the option to save it if there isnt enough time to use a tech.

Force definitely feels like the by far safest class out of all the ones I've played so far too. Though it does kinda feel bad losing a ton of dmg if you don't have aggro.

But you don't want to store the bullet. There is always time you get iframes if you cast a tech right after a block or dodge.

As for other classe, the step counter of all classes is incredibly short, there is rarely a situation when you can't do it. (If you don't get iframes on counters in the first place...)

if there are a lot of attacks in a row you can weapon action -> step counter (til multihits end) -> photon bullet, pretty sure that does more damage than Weapon action -> photon bullet because even though you are invincible its just less counters going out.

@Rorana said in Foibles for force:

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@Rorana said in Foibles for force:

Also worth noting that force atm has the highest effective range in the game, if you are locked on, you can hit it. I haven't really had problems doing damage on force, I see it as more of a counter class (ALA Katana Braver in base). Photon Bullet is pretty powerful and can be stored. Other classes have to activate the counter or lose it but force has the option to save it if there isnt enough time to use a tech.

Force definitely feels like the by far safest class out of all the ones I've played so far too. Though it does kinda feel bad losing a ton of dmg if you don't have aggro.

But you don't want to store the bullet. There is always time you get iframes if you cast a tech right after a block or dodge.

As for other classe, the step counter of all classes is incredibly short, there is rarely a situation when you can't do it. (If you don't get iframes on counters in the first place...)

if there are a lot of attacks in a row you can weapon action -> step counter (til multihits end) -> photon bullet, pretty sure that does more damage than Weapon action -> photon bullet because even though you are invincible its just less counters going out.

You might have a point, but wa -> bullet -> wa -> bullet is even better (You can do even longer chain of this during nax fire breath attack)

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@Rorana said in Foibles for force:

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@Rorana said in Foibles for force:

Also worth noting that force atm has the highest effective range in the game, if you are locked on, you can hit it. I haven't really had problems doing damage on force, I see it as more of a counter class (ALA Katana Braver in base). Photon Bullet is pretty powerful and can be stored. Other classes have to activate the counter or lose it but force has the option to save it if there isnt enough time to use a tech.

Force definitely feels like the by far safest class out of all the ones I've played so far too. Though it does kinda feel bad losing a ton of dmg if you don't have aggro.

But you don't want to store the bullet. There is always time you get iframes if you cast a tech right after a block or dodge.

As for other classe, the step counter of all classes is incredibly short, there is rarely a situation when you can't do it. (If you don't get iframes on counters in the first place...)

if there are a lot of attacks in a row you can weapon action -> step counter (til multihits end) -> photon bullet, pretty sure that does more damage than Weapon action -> photon bullet because even though you are invincible its just less counters going out.

You might have a point, but wa -> bullet -> wa -> bullet is even better (You can do even longer chain of this during nax fire breath attack)

I mean true, but if you are using a rod/talis multiweapon, talis step counter has far better frame data for counter spam than wa->bullet->wa->bullet and stacks up tricky capacitor for extra burst during photon flare. Rod wa is 48 frames and then you have to add the tech casting animation while the entirety of the talis step counter is just 44 frames.

It's probs worth doing wa->bullet->wa->bullet if you are TE sub because step counters wont fill PB as fast as that

Went back and practise Fleeting Fights cocoon, and got it down to 0:59 seconds, has a force/techter. This is still using mostly pso2 gear, and fighter would actually be a better sub in this run for the extra 5% down damage, but I can’t do that due to having a lot of my skills in the techter tree.

All in all forces single dps is actually pretty decent, sure your probably not going to be doing quite the same damage has fighter with ds spam, but force isn’t just bringing dps, it’s all elemental downs which is then free dps for everyone in the mpa. Plus force has always done better at mobbing dps has well.

F5F012D0-AB56-496A-9DD4-DADDBEA8E896.jpeg

Also recorded the run for anyone that would like to watch it

https://youtu.be/TM6OxbI4cPs

@TEN-SQUARE-3

Gz on sub 1 time.

But that's about what I would expect if other classes had 20% higher dps. If you can run it in a minute, somebody who has 20% higher dps should be able to finish it in 49 seconds, which is about what I seen on screenshots people posted. Their gear also was mostly pso2 stuff, I think some of the people i seen used klauz weapons.

Force is really fun to play, but with low technique dps, and extremely questionable design choices (common, sega, fix the photon flare short charge lowering barta dps...) I think it really needs some tweaking. It feels like the thing they cared the most about when making force was just pushing as much pp regen into the class as possible.

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@TEN-SQUARE-3

Gz on sub 1 time.

But that's about what I would expect if other classes had 20% higher dps. If you can run it in a minute, somebody who has 20% higher dps should be able to finish it in 49 seconds, which is about what I seen on screenshots people posted. Their gear also was mostly pso2 stuff, I think some of the people i seen used klauz weapons.

Force is really fun to play, but with low technique dps, and extremely questionable design choices (common, sega, fix the photon flare short charge lowering barta dps...) I think it really needs some tweaking. It feels like the thing they cared the most about when making force was just pushing as much pp regen into the class as possible.

Thanks. Yeah the short charge skill is honestly a trap, Talis gets no benefit from the shorter charge so you only end up reducing your damage with it, and it’s the better dps phase weapon. The only time I would use it with rod, is if I knew I could consistently get counters off for an extended period of time, which again you’re mostly going to be using uncharged techs, except for the marker detonation, so you’re going to get very little benefit for the short charge as well.

@TEN-SQUARE-3

Where i really like the short charge was the tower where you were fighting 3 fire weak bosses. If you poped photon flare + pp conversion you could basically lock them in permament burn.

Fire is the only element that really benefits from pfsc because

a) it has no stack mechanics so you can just spam charged techs

b) Gifoie has the longest charge time in the game at 40 frames, so it benefits like 10% dps during pfsc.

Lightning doesn't really care for it and barta is just flat out disaster to the point you're better off switching to gifoie even on ice-weak enemies during it.

@Kamil118 said in Foibles for force:

@TEN-SQUARE-3

Where i really like the short charge was the tower where you were fighting 3 fire weak bosses. If you poped photon flare + pp conversion you could basically lock them in permament burn.

Fire is the only element that really benefits from pfsc because

a) it has no stack mechanics so you can just spam charged techs

b) Gifoie has the longest charge time in the game at 40 frames, so it benefits like 10% dps during pfsc.

Lightning doesn't really care for it and barta is just flat out disaster to the point you're better off switching to gifoie even on ice-weak enemies during it.

Yeah that’s true fire does benefit from short charge. I generally still spam uncharged foie if I’m going for the burn effect though, has it burns it faster. I’m not sure why though, might be number of hits, or maybe the uncharged has a higher burn chance. But has I don’t have that skill I can’t use that way of doing it’s anyway.!

Fighter cleartime 29sec btw.

@Yui2387 said in Foibles for force:

Fighter cleartime 29sec btw.

Video, screenshot?

I’ve seen some very fast fighter clear times, and it’s cause of one pa on the double saber, julien dance that pa is so far ahead of everything else in the game atm.

I use a Talis/Rod Multiweapon Te/Fo. Someone mentioned Talis costing alot of PP, would just like to make it aware that while the Talis WA is deployed, you fire normals faster and regenerate pp at a much higher rate than rod does.(I'm fairly sure of this after some testing last night but if anyone can confirm/debunk this, by all means please do). I use Talis to cast most of my techs because techer main class boost and I deploy Convergence for down phases most of the time. I also used Rod mostly until recently, so getting used to the slower movement of talis during casting is taking some getting used to, but having access to rod guard and following up with the proper element to get 3 elemental hits and extra damage more frequently is nice.

With the Rod bullet parry skill and the skill that makes you invicible after a successful sidestep or Technique cast after successful parry(the short animation where you dissapear), there are alot of quick attacks you can actually guard in success and cast between them(it's possible to block and cast for all 3 of Daityl Sword/Axe eye lasers, albeit funky to catch that first one with proper timing because of how quick the attack comes out.)

I typically use Talis Wa, tech spam, Talis Wa, Talis normals to refill and move back into tech spam. Additionally, Talis PB is better for bosses because it attacks vertically on the lock on point(Ideally the weak point) and Rod PB is susceptible to hitting other parts even if you are locked onto the weak point...(great for clearing trash mobs out on pse burst or climax's though)

Taking the Tricky Capacitor skill also is like having an oGCD for extra damage every time the bar fills. If you are using a Talis/Rod MW and using the talis portion more specifically, you should have more than enough points to stick a skill point in it.

Only unfortunate thing about Techer/Force combo is that entering UQs and cocoons, you cannot use Shifta/Deband for the first 30 seconds. Has anyone tried using Ranger main for a weak bullet build with force? or Fighter main for overload with force? Would love to hear some feedback on class combos.