Where the content sega?

@Ezodagrom the problem is the dungeon crawler that was pso2 was more lively that the open but dead world of ngs.

@samsaralotus Part of what made the world chunks within base feel more alive was the simple fact that most enemies popped out at you rather than just standing around waiting to be attacked and they'd attack each other! Rivers that had their water levels rise and current increase during storms, lightning strikes, etc. The world was simply more alive than what we have in NGS.

Hell even the tames barely mimic grazing, they don't wander they just stick to the same area and rotate through animations. The dolls don't interact with them who you'd have figured would have just wanted to kill anything in sight. Or why don't some of the aggressive fauna attack the tames? They just lay around in the open waiting to be butchered themselves.

@samsaralotus said in Where the content sega?:

@Pariah-Chan nice character you got

Thx @samsaralotus ! ❤

Here’s my “wish there was more to do” look! 😉

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@Nasar Yeah...Idk about the base game feeling "alive".

@XenoBladeX37645 I just mean the base world itself compared to the world we have now.

You can't tell me enemies standing around cycling through the same animations is more "alive" feeling than being ambushed by enemies as you wander around. Or that hostiles and tames standing around intermingled and not fighting/hunting one another is more alive than the falspawn and fauna duking it out if they get close to each other. Or the weather effecting the landscape.

Somehow Sega managed to make an open world game that feels more static and artificial than the dungeon-crawler style game we had in base.

Also @Pariah-Chan that's great lol

@Nasar First being ambushed doesnt make anything feel alive imo. Most maps are barren until you get close to something in base. Base is basically a bunch of prerendered corridors. There was no changing landscape for most maps either for weather. I cant even think of any that did change the landscape.

But like most other things, its something else folks can get their rocks off complaining about. I sucks how negative this site has become. Positivity is a rarity these days. Cant wait to see the next complaints

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A highly anticipated MMO-esque RPG and not even a month old lost 85% of its playerbase. Sheeeesh this is what happens when you cut out all of your content at launch and drip feed it over a ridiculous period of time so that you can release as many crappy gatchas and overpriced cosmetics as possible.

The game adds literally nothing new to the PSO2 experience. It's not even an episode 7 level update, it's like if base PSO2 launched with only 10% of episode one just with pretty colors this time. Multi weapon system is pointless, endgame is time gated content again, the world is empty, there's no variety of loot to farm, melee weapons like sword feel weightless and unsatisfying due to the sound effects they make and lack of impact behind them when attacking, the gigantix system is a complete disaster and the story (or lack thereof) has 0 immersion.

PSO1 wins again. They can't make em like they used to. PSO went from being this immersive space adventure with a melancholy vibe with tons of good loot to farm and an endgame that actually has a satisfying gameplay loop.

To some cliche over the top anime, sword are online wannabe barbie dress up simulator with the worst concept of an endgame I ever seen. Yes, time gate endgame at random intervals. That's healthy for an RPG. R.I.P

At this point, only hype for the soundtracks for when new bosses and content are actually released. Can you imagine if this game launched with a cohesive beginning, middle and end storyline with endgame raids, dungeons and a variety of loot to obtain? Imagine a complete PSO game.

@SalutexMO yea and by your standards, they should have waited another 8 years to release this. But somehow this disastrous of a release was able to keep you around.

Standards are rock bottom, let me do a copypasta from a reddit topic I replied to that's been deleted cause we got all riled up...

Here's my player experience today, as a daily routine. Like any other day:

So I log into classic PSO2 to check the Treasure Shop for one of those accessory offers that sometimes pop up. As usual, no tunnel humming sound unlike in old PSO2 while loading the first time. I go into NGS and assets got to load first time, so I Alt+Tab out for a minute to chat with the Alliance Discord meanwhile. I finally get to play the game and go for those fruits the Daily asks me, then check the Regional Mags and see that North ask me for fruit so I go there.

On the Ryuker I make my food and see there are 28/32 players. Gigantrix coming soon! As I feed the mag, the storm starts and I see the damage numbers across the bridge. Now, this bridge is haunted. As I jump it over, next to the fight, game freezes. As I sigh, I close the game and reopen it, this time faster. I check the rooms for North Aelio in the search. Every incomplete room gives out a "full room" message, cause it seems they lie. I finally get into one and... I spawn in Halphia Lake falling across the map. Mind you, this isn't my first time experiencing such a thing and also get that often when doing the PSO2 to NGS step in the beginning.

So, the storm ends and magically am able to get into a North Aelio block just in time to see the sun rise. Next task: Vanford II x50 enemies. Telepor there, I see a PSE Burst ending into Climax, so I prefer to go into another room not to leech and start one myself. The room I go in has also a PSE Burst Climax going on. And the next. And... another one. Then, I notice is in the same place and ANOTHER PSE Burst Climax happens to the left and I see two PSE Location Icons. I quickly backpedal to town and... see a 1200+ PSE Burst Climax location mark there.

After relogging, I am able to get into a normal room and a normal 50 enemies session and finish my PSE Observation weekly finally. My loot is a Resurgir Wand and a Vialto Armor. But they got no Fixas there, so my minmax side disregards them as paperweights until RNG blesses me finally with something after all this playtime without having to spend N-Meseta manually searching through the market. Which is broken and had this last update had to manually trudge through accessories from minimal price because Search is utterly broken.

Finally, I go to hunt Alpha Reactors. Thank you so much to Rappy Burst for the daily map because SEGA can't seem to implement dots for any resources or picked up red boxes. And, as I pick up the 11th in Central Aelio, another storm starts. I run through all of it to meet the others beating up the Nogleth... and as I am fighting with the others, I see my HP/PP UI outright disappear. But I am up, and I see everybody moving. I just keep going on and finally we beat it. My HP/PP UI still gone. I open up the menu to check the things I got with ESC. But, there's no menu popping up. Just the names of the menu options. And I can't select anything. I am perfectly able to use F1-12 etc for functions, but not ESC, which suddenly lost all purpose with those spectral menu letters showing behind my weapon palette.

And as I relog for a 3rd time with F12, I quickly get the last reactors, cash out and get out of this miserable experience, "incredibly excited" for the six months to come until the next area, which mind you has the red box locations already filtered as well as the map sometimes activating randomly too ingame. Nope, I didn't like Mining Base, so I am not looking forward to Defense. This is what I have looking forward logging in each day.

I am ready to do epic space adventure, but instead I have to keep at the Command Room or go back to Oracle to not get bored as a rock in not-Spira waiting for Dark Falz Sin's fight someday waiting for lightning to literally strike and fight "what if it was purple" stuff.

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@HarmlessSyan said in Where the content sega?:

@SalutexMO yea and by your standards, they should have waited another 8 years to release this. But somehow this disastrous of a release was able to keep you around.

It didn't though. Most of my playtime on pso2 wasn't real. I was literally afk in the lobby after doing a small task like 80% of the time. I haven't even bothered logging into NGS shortly after it's launch and the same goes for most people I know

They probably should've waited longer. I mean, we can literally see level 60+ enemies because sega forgot to patch them out, so clearly they are drip feeding somewhat.

@SalutexMO said in Where the content sega?:

and not even a month old lost 85% of its playerbase. Sheeeesh

For everyone's benefit SalutexMO is comparing the 59,197 with the 9,374 which is basically the daily trough. Given that 59,197 was the daily peak of NGS release day, even that screenshot shows a more appropriate comparison in the 13,688 of the last daily peak which is a 77% "loss" instead. (Separately, 9,374 is 15.84% of 59,197, so even the 85% is inexplicably rounding 84.16% up.)

As always though, this is a poor comparison. Every F2P ARPG/MMO with the exception of surprise hits has a launch spike considerably higher than what its day-to-day playerbase ultimately settles on.


I'm starting to think people's impressions of typical concurrent player amounts are considerably higher than they really are. CS:GO and DOTA 2 surpassed 700k players in the last 24 hours. They're the exceptions! Only 5 other games surpassed 100k, and only 8 more surpassed 50k. There's a curve, the falloff is steep, and it might surprise some to know games don't need 200k+ concurrent players or whatever to avoid being calamitous failures.


@SalutexMO said in Where the content sega?:

PSO1 wins again. They can't make em like they used to.

Hurrah for nostalgia. For starters the original PSO on the Dreamcast surpassed 200k copies worldwide a month after its PAL release (which was a month after its NA release, which was a month after its JP release).

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Considering the staggered releases, the worldwide timezone divide, the cost of playing (some of the world was still paying for internet access by the minute!) and the impossibility of updates, it seems foolish to think a more significant proportion of that 200k would be playing concurrently for a sustained time.

I'm cheating here - I know they didn't. IGN reported on it. PSO on the Dreamcast peaked at 26k concurrent connections. In your terms, "PSO2 wins again" (and that's just with the Steam Global numbers, not including those of the other three ecosystems or JP.)

You might say this isn't a good comparison, that PSO1 was free beyond purchase. While a good point, this wasn't entirely true. Only in PAL regions was the purchase the only cost; in America, Ver.2 introduced a subscription fee. I remember that being the case for Japan too but the above IGN links suggests they always had it (or maybe a Dreamcast online service charge?). Amusingly many US Dreamcast players imported the PAL version of the game to swerve the subscription fee.

You might also suggest other versions of PSO1 had more concurrent players online. I'm not hugely convinced by that. What little I can find of subsequent Gamecube and Xbox versions of the game suggests they sold less than the Dreamcast versions and still had a subscription fee. Blue Burst certainly did. Most of the nostalgia stories I've heard particularly of the Gamecube version was about its split-screen offline play which wouldn't contribute to nonexistent concurrent player metrics.

And of course Phantasy Star Online at least for its Dreamcast origins was a one-of-a-kind title that was also a first-party title from the makers of a console that was critically panned for lacking games, especially RPGs (just think that one of its main ones for months was Evolution: The World of Sacred Device). PSO1 had 10-page reviews in official Dreamcast magazines. Only Nintendo still does that kind of thing anymore.

By the way, and relevant to the topic, I want to call out this idea that PSO1 was perfection when it came to content. Here's a snippet review from a senior writer of one of those official Dreamcast magazines:

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Even a review of the time speaks of repetition.

And to remind what PSO1 really was... PSO1 had four environments, 10 fixed maps and some variety in the start and end warps in each of those. It had a handful of single player only quests that were running through those same areas with dialogue, and an online that was basically the same thing with more people. The glorious additions in Ver.2 were Ultimate difficulty, Battle Mode and Challenge Mode, all of which have been seen as the most dead modes in PSO2.

I need to be clear, PSO1 was a fantastic game for its time. In the lens of hardware and optical storage limitations it was a technical marvel and given the fledgling state of online gaming it was arguably the single best example of Sega's groundbreaking vision of internet-connected consoles that the Dreamcast (dream broadcast) was about. The fact it was played as much as it was in spite of a much smaller gaming industry and with some of the barriers of access that we don't even think about is still impressive.

But it didn't have the literal thousands of hours of content we (quite rightly!) want New Genesis to have in the lens of modern live-service gaming. I don't feel its helpful to pretend like it did in an attempt to make a point, because it kind of undermines that point.

Let's appreciate PSO1 for what it really was - which was absolutely still appreciable! - and concurrently hope that New Genesis content improves in ways and with a pace that are not what PSO1 never was, but which are more respectable for a sufficiently successful 2020's-era live-service ARPG.

@Aumires said in Where the content sega?:

Standards are rock bottom, let me do a copypasta from a reddit topic I replied to that's been deleted cause we got all riled up...

Here's my player experience today, as a daily routine. Like any other day:

So I log into classic PSO2 to check the Treasure Shop for one of those accessory offers that sometimes pop up. As usual, no tunnel humming sound unlike in old PSO2 while loading the first time. I go into NGS and assets got to load first time, so I Alt+Tab out for a minute to chat with the Alliance Discord meanwhile. I finally get to play the game and go for those fruits the Daily asks me, then check the Regional Mags and see that North ask me for fruit so I go there.

On the Ryuker I make my food and see there are 28/32 players. Gigantrix coming soon! As I feed the mag, the storm starts and I see the damage numbers across the bridge. Now, this bridge is haunted. As I jump it over, next to the fight, game freezes. As I sigh, I close the game and reopen it, this time faster. I check the rooms for North Aelio in the search. Every incomplete room gives out a "full room" message, cause it seems they lie. I finally get into one and... I spawn in Halphia Lake falling across the map. Mind you, this isn't my first time experiencing such a thing and also get that often when doing the PSO2 to NGS step in the beginning.

So, the storm ends and magically am able to get into a North Aelio block just in time to see the sun rise. Next task: Vanford II x50 enemies. Telepor there, I see a PSE Burst ending into Climax, so I prefer to go into another room not to leech and start one myself. The room I go in has also a PSE Burst Climax going on. And the next. And... another one. Then, I notice is in the same place and ANOTHER PSE Burst Climax happens to the left and I see two PSE Location Icons. I quickly backpedal to town and... see a 1200+ PSE Burst Climax location mark there.

After relogging, I am able to get into a normal room and a normal 50 enemies session and finish my PSE Observation weekly finally. My loot is a Resurgir Wand and a Vialto Armor. But they got no Fixas there, so my minmax side disregards them as paperweights until RNG blesses me finally with something after all this playtime without having to spend N-Meseta manually searching through the market. Which is broken and had this last update had to manually trudge through accessories from minimal price because Search is utterly broken.

Finally, I go to hunt Alpha Reactors. Thank you so much to Rappy Burst for the daily map because SEGA can't seem to implement dots for any resources or picked up red boxes. And, as I pick up the 11th in Central Aelio, another storm starts. I run through all of it to meet the others beating up the Nogleth... and as I am fighting with the others, I see my HP/PP UI outright disappear. But I am up, and I see everybody moving. I just keep going on and finally we beat it. My HP/PP UI still gone. I open up the menu to check the things I got with ESC. But, there's no menu popping up. Just the names of the menu options. And I can't select anything. I am perfectly able to use F1-12 etc for functions, but not ESC, which suddenly lost all purpose with those spectral menu letters showing behind my weapon palette.

And as I relog for a 3rd time with F12, I quickly get the last reactors, cash out and get out of this miserable experience, "incredibly excited" for the six months to come until the next area, which mind you has the red box locations already filtered as well as the map sometimes activating randomly too ingame. Nope, I didn't like Mining Base, so I am not looking forward to Defense. This is what I have looking forward logging in each day.

I am ready to do epic space adventure, but instead I have to keep at the Command Room or go back to Oracle to not get bored as a rock in not-Spira waiting for Dark Falz Sin's fight someday waiting for lightning to literally strike and fight "what if it was purple" stuff.

alt text

Damn..Are you okay after having to deal with all that nonsense?

This thread got very toxic. My lord go breath some fresh air or something guys.

I could careless.........pointless! What is the point of this thread?

@Nasar said in Where the content sega?:

Part of what made the world chunks within base feel more alive was the simple fact that most enemies popped out at you rather than just standing around waiting to be attacked and they'd attack each other! Rivers that had their water levels rise and current increase during storms, lightning strikes, etc. The world was simply more alive than what we have in NGS.

I actually would love to see dolls fight with aggressive fauna. In PSO2 when two mini bosses spawned, I would stand around and watch them attack each other. Also, I would love to see NPCS outside of central city. I feels weird when you only see them when there's a trial.

I didn't care much for thunderstorms in PSO2 because the lightning was targeting the player. It would be better if it was a random occurrence like getting hit by a stella.