Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Another example ranger/force. Can multi rifle/rod, you use your rod to inflict elemental down on a boss, then swap to your rifle for weak bullet, and then either attack with either your rifle or launcher. You can multi more than one weapon, so you could have rifle/launcher on one slot, and rifle/rod on another

Or you could just, use the down to stack tricky capacitor on talis and do more damage with a better sub class cause techter lets you save 5 SP from force tree since their trees are very similar

@Herald-of-Zenchi said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

I hope the bonus goes up to 50% instead of just 10% A main class techter shouldn't be as strong as a main class hunter with a sword.

thats a problem with the hunter tree just sort of sucking atm.

How does setting up a force/techter have to do with how you would use ranger/force?

Force from what I can tell seems like a very god sub for ranger, gives you ton of pp regen, plus the ability to inflict elemental downs, which you can then stack with your weak bullet and main class weapons

The point i was trying to make is why bother with a class that adds a weapon when you can just mix trees with stuff that already has passives for the main weapon you are using. Yeah sure you can sub force and use rod for ranger, but by the time you get a down from status using techs you probably end up doing more damage just using rifle to stack up weak bullet.

only nice multiweapon if going force sub is talis for the weapon action, but you dont need to sub force to use that. If you wanna do a build with downs better off just goign fighter sub and maxing defeat advantage and defeat PP recover and ignoring its weapons entirely because there will never be a time where its better to use them.

IDK i feel like the 10% damage just makes things more linear.

Maybe, maybe not. If you’re trying to do an elemental down by yourself than yeah you may end up doing more damage just using your rifle. But elemental downs stack faster with multiple people doing elemental damage, so in a party that may not be the case, plus with the weapon multi you can still keep weak bullet going. But force doesn’t just give better downs for ranger, it’s also a lot of pp regen, the elemental downs are just a bonus on top of that, and something you would use or not use depending on the situation.

The 10% damage brings us back to your sub class being a support for your main class, this includes ability’s and weapons. The only difference is you will only be using your sub class weapons in specific situations, instead of just playing your sub class like a main class, which is literally what I did with force in beta cause their was basically no penalty for doing that, which tbh was kind of dumb.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Edit: Funny thing is this conversation is reminding me a lot about the first week of Smash Brawl for the Wii, when everyone was convinced Ike was shockingly overpowered.

Yeah I can imagine crazy shit like techter being the best at using every weapon in the game.

Uh, that's literally what you're asking for.

If Techter can subclass another class and use its weapons as though they were a main class, without any loss to that class's skills for those weapons, and get Shifta/Deband and various cumulative bonuses on top of that, then it can use those weapons better than the class could as a main class. This is a remarkably obvious comparison: "Everything without Shifta vs Everything with Shifta".

This was pointed out to you early in the topic and your reply was "that's a problem with main class skills being too weak to compete with techter". But any measure that makes main class skills more effective would lead to you making the exact same complaint that Techter couldn't use non-Techter weapons at x% effectiveness because it doesn't get those main class skills. So that's just not a solution.

I mean, be reasonable. Suppose a Techter wanted to put sword on their multi-weapon. Are you really okay with the idea of the 10% main class bonus being ditched but in exchange Sword Attack Extra (the powerful fifth normal) becomes limited to main class only? Of course you're not. That'd make sword as a subclass way worse than the mere omission of a 10% potency bonus, so I simply don't believe you'd be okay with that.

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Edit: Funny thing is this conversation is reminding me a lot about the first week of Smash Brawl for the Wii, when everyone was convinced Ike was shockingly overpowered.

Yeah I can imagine crazy shit like techter being the best at using every weapon in the game.

Uh, that's literally what you're asking for.

If Techter can subclass another class and use its weapons as though they were a main class, without any loss to that class's skills for those weapons, and get Shifta/Deband and various cumulative bonuses on top of that, then it can use those weapons better than the class could as a main class. This is a remarkably obvious comparison: "Everything without Shifta vs Everything with Shifta".

This was pointed out to you early in the topic and your reply was "that's a problem with main class skills being too weak to compete with techter". But any measure that makes main class skills more effective would lead to you making the exact same complaint that Techter couldn't use non-Techter weapons at 110% effectiveness because it doesn't get those main class skills. So that's just not a solution.

I mean, be reasonable. Suppose a Techter wanted to put sword on their multi-weapon. Are you really okay with the idea of the 10% main class bonus being ditched but in exchange Sword Attack Extra (the powerful fifth normal) becomes limited to main class only? Of course you're not. That'd make sword as a subclass way worse than the mere omission of a 10% potency bonus, so I simply don't believe you'd be okay with that.

unlike CBT we have actual skill trees now though that do enhance weapons further. I honestly severely doubt that without the debuff techter would be the best class at using every weapon. Also, they already do this with a bunch of weapon skills, so I don't see the problem here? its not like the current way the classes are balanced are set in stone...

@Rorana I completely agree with you, but there will be another problem Hunters being a main will no longer be viable. You're better off using fighter as a main then hunter as secondary for better passives and actions.

So, I think they should just remove/rebalance this entire sub class downsides and let people free style 2 classes as main, so you can be a hunter/fighter with all the passives and actions or just rebalance the hunter skill tree it's really bad atm.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

unlike CBT we have actual skill trees now though that do enhance weapons further.

Almost none of which require main class. Even the generic skills that affect all of a class' weapons or PAs just say "Can only be used with [class] Weapons." and will work perfectly fine as a subclass.

Hunter and Ranger in particular have nothing to boost damage as a main class, and for several other classes the benefit is conditional (e.g. Defeat Advantage) or indirect (the main class effect of the four PP recovery skills for Gunner and Force). Perhaps the only main class requirement in the game is Chain Trigger Quick Reload for TMGs.

What I can't fathom is you're effectively suggesting for instance that Hunter should get a main class only skill that is "+10% damage to Hunter weapons". Which is exactly the passive bonus you're seeking to eliminate in this topic, only now it burns one of our precious skill points as well. How is that supposed to help?

You've yet to explain what skills you mean would make a main class worthwhile if the passive 10% bonus is eliminated, or what skills they could receive that wouldn't replicate that elimination.


By the way, I want to point something else out: We probably can't just multi-weapon two weapons from the same class without a damage loss right now. There are four 4★ weapon families; three with 242 damage and a potential that starts at +18%, and one with 240 damage and a potential that starts at +16%. Only the last of these (Resurgir) is available for all weapon types. The others have one per class at most:

Class Cattleya Foursis Vialto
Hunter Sword Wired Lance Partisan
Fighter Knuckles Twin Daggers Double Saber
Ranger - Rifle Launcher
Gunner TMG Rifle -
Force - Rod Talis
Techter Wand - Talis

The only way to combine multiple weapons within a class is to use Resurgir, which may be weaker after enhancement and with a reduced unconditional Potency bonus at the final potential. Yes that probably wouldn't be a 10% difference, but it helps make up the difference compared to say Foursis Wire(+10%)/Rifle(+0%) because using Resurgir at all might make both weapons weaker.

And honestly, considering this topic is ostensibly about limited creativity, I'm kind of surprised you don't consider this limitation of optimum weapon combinations as a higher priority than a main class passive.

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

unlike CBT we have actual skill trees now though that do enhance weapons further.

Almost none of which require main class. Even the generic skills that affect all of a class' weapons or PAs just say "Can only be used with [class] Weapons." and will work perfectly fine as a subclass.

Hunter and Ranger in particular have nothing to boost damage as a main class, and for several other classes the benefit is conditional (e.g. Defeat Advantage) or indirect (the main class effect of the four PP recovery skills for Gunner and Force). Perhaps the only main class requirement in the game is Chain Trigger Quick Reload for TMGs.

What I can't fathom is you're effectively suggesting for instance that Hunter should get a main class only skill that is "+10% damage to Hunter weapons". Which is exactly the passive bonus you're seeking to eliminate in this topic, only now it burns one of our precious skill points as well. How is that supposed to help?

You've yet to explain what skills you mean would make a main class worthwhile if the passive 10% bonus is eliminated, or what skills they could receive that wouldn't replicate that elimination.

  1. I never said anywhere that +10% damage to hunter weapons is something I want.
  2. The text in game is a bit weird but from what I have tested, I haven't been able to use chain trigger on sub classes, Shifta/deband is main class only, I also haven't been able to get overload to work with fighter sub but that just might be bugs
  3. I am saying that they should just make the "main stays" of the class main only

Honestly it would be nice if this was the case:

Hunter: Class based around taking hits to do more damage & being tanky enough to take the hits

  • Remove class restriction on War Cry
  • Remove class restriction on Omnidirectional Guard
  • Make Hunter Arts Avenger & its related passives main class only, remove the weapon requirement.

Fighter: High Risk High Reward

  • Add class restriction to overload if there isn't one.

Ranger: Ranged Support

  • Add class restriction to blight bullet & reinforce

Gunner: build up and burst

  • Add class restriction to chain trigger if there isnt one
  • Allow chain trigger to work with multiweapons
  • Remove Spread Shot from tree

Force: Fast Charges and Ranged Magic

  • Add class restriction to Photon Flare if there isn't one
  • Remove weapon restriction from Photon flare Short charge

The problem with techter is that it is the ONLY class where the main things you would take the class for are actually restricted to the class, while other classes can just be psuedo played due to lacking class restrictions. I feel like classes should be more distinct in their playstyle and the weapons they use would play a smaller role in how they play. Like why the hell is the avenger tree class wide? that just makes it so there is no reason to ever play hunter. Meanwhile you HAVE TO PLAY techter to have access to shifta/deband, which is what is making it so OP.

The 10% nerf is just a bandaid to systemic problems with the class skill system at thee moment.

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

And honestly, considering this topic is ostensibly about limited creativity, I'm kind of surprised you don't consider this limitation of optimum weapon combinations as a higher priority than a main class passive.

I haven't had much chance to play around with multi weapons as other stuff due to how limited the resources for that are and how hard it is to get 4 stars. Not like I can have multiple maxed out 4 stars to compare with. It's just too early in the life span for me to accurately form an opinion on that aspect

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

unlike CBT we have actual skill trees now though that do enhance weapons further.

Almost none of which require main class. Even the generic skills that affect all of a class' weapons or PAs just say "Can only be used with [class] Weapons." and will work perfectly fine as a subclass.

Hunter and Ranger in particular have nothing to boost damage as a main class, and for several other classes the benefit is conditional (e.g. Defeat Advantage) or indirect (the main class effect of the four PP recovery skills for Gunner and Force). Perhaps the only main class requirement in the game is Chain Trigger Quick Reload for TMGs.

What I can't fathom is you're effectively suggesting for instance that Hunter should get a main class only skill that is "+10% damage to Hunter weapons". Which is exactly the passive bonus you're seeking to eliminate in this topic, only now it burns one of our precious skill points as well. How is that supposed to help?

You've yet to explain what skills you mean would make a main class worthwhile if the passive 10% bonus is eliminated, or what skills they could receive that wouldn't replicate that elimination.

  1. I never said anywhere that +10% damage to hunter weapons is something I want.
  2. The text in game is a bit weird but from what I have tested, I haven't been able to use chain trigger on sub classes, Shifta/deband is main class only, I also haven't been able to get overload to work with fighter sub but that just might be bugs
  3. I am saying that they should just make the "main stays" of the class main only

Honestly it would be nice if this was the case:

Hunter: Class based around taking hits to do more damage & being tanky enough to take the hits

  • Remove class restriction on War Cry
  • Remove class restriction on Omnidirectional Guard
  • Make Hunter Arts Avenger & its related passives main class only, remove the weapon requirement.

Fighter: High Risk High Reward

  • Add class restriction to overload if there isn't one.

Ranger: Ranged Support

  • Add class restriction to blight bullet & reinforce

Gunner: build up and burst

  • Add class restriction to chain trigger if there isnt one
  • Allow chain trigger to work with multiweapons
  • Remove Spread Shot from tree

Force: Fast Charges and Ranged Magic

  • Add class restriction to Photon Flare if there isn't one
  • Remove weapon restriction from Photon flare Short charge

The problem with techter is that it is the ONLY class where the main things you would take the class for are actually restricted to the class, while other classes can just be psuedo played due to lacking class restrictions. I feel like classes should be more distinct in their playstyle and the weapons they use would play a smaller role in how they play. Like why the hell is the avenger tree class wide? that just makes it so there is no reason to ever play hunter. Meanwhile you HAVE TO PLAY techter to have access to shifta/deband, which is what is making it so OP.

The 10% nerf is just a bandaid to systemic problems with the class skill system at thee moment.

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

And honestly, considering this topic is ostensibly about limited creativity, I'm kind of surprised you don't consider this limitation of optimum weapon combinations as a higher priority than a main class passive.

I haven't had much chance to play around with multi weapons as other stuff due to how limited the resources for that are and how hard it is to get 4 stars. Not like I can have multiple maxed out 4 stars to compare with. It's just too early in the life span for me to accurately form an opinion on that aspect

,

Erm, a lot of that stuff is main class only. Photon flare, Overload, blight rounds, chain trigger. Chain trigger does work with multi weapon has long has gunner is your main class. You want them to restrict photon flare to main class only, which it is, but then at the same time remove the restriction on short charge? The only other weapon other that force doesn’t have access to has a main class is wand.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Erm, a lot of that stuff is main class only. Photon flare, Overload, blight rounds, chain trigger. Chain trigger does work with multi weapon has long has gunner is your main class. You want them to restrict photon flare to main class only, which it is, but then at the same time remove the restriction on short charge? The only other weapon other that force doesn’t have access to has a main class is wand.

Honestly, I find a lot of the wording around the passives confusing so if someone tells me that certain things work as a sub class i have no way of actually knowing if its true or not. I was just giving benefit of the doubt. As for the reasoning for short charge, I just think it would be neat if it worked on the charges of other classes, like hunter weapons charging faster but the PAs doing less dmg.

I feel like it should be that someone would take a main class because of its class specific buff, and they should take something as a sub class because you like using its weapons.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Erm, a lot of that stuff is main class only. Photon flare, Overload, blight rounds, chain trigger. Chain trigger does work with multi weapon has long has gunner is your main class. You want them to restrict photon flare to main class only, which it is, but then at the same time remove the restriction on short charge? The only other weapon other that force doesn’t have access to has a main class is wand.

Honestly, I find a lot of the wording around the passives confusing so if someone tells me that certain things work as a sub class i have no way of actually knowing if its true or not. I was just giving benefit of the doubt. As for the reasoning for short charge, I just think it would be neat if it worked on the charges of other classes, like hunter weapons charging faster but the PAs doing less dmg.

I feel like it should be that someone would take a main class because of its class specific buff, and they should take something as a sub class because you like using its weapons.

It says on these skills in game main class only, in yellow text, anything that is restricted to either main class or weapon specific is written in yellow text.

Honestly the more I’ve read of what you’ve written it just sounds like you wanted to use techter has a fake main class, and your sub class has your actually main class, and have it perform has good if not better than actually using that class has a main class. Which of that turned out to be the case would be horrible game design, has it is you can regain the 10% damage loss from your sub class has techter cause of shifta, which means your damage should be comparable anyway.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

I never said anywhere that +10% damage to hunter weapons is something I want.

No, you were being vague about that despite me asking what you do want: "that's a problem with main class skills being too weak". You'd still not said what wouldn't count as too weak but simultaneously not make weapons on a main class be stronger than they could be with Techter to the extent that you feel your creativity is limited.


@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

[Several preferences of how skill trees should work]

For starters Omnidirectional Guard isn't main class only anyway. It just needs a Hunter weapon; Ranger/Hunter can't use it with a Rifle but can with a Sword. For second, remove the restriction on War Cry? Really? Third, Hunter Arts Avenger and Iron Will are not enough to make Hunter worthwhile as a main class; Techter/Hunter would so easily become the meta with this setup.


@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

The problem with techter is that it is the ONLY class where the main things you would take the class for are actually restricted to the class

The other problem is most of those skills are awesome. Unconditional +5% damage dealt and -10% damage received without long cooldown gaps like Hunter Physique or Photon Flare. For the whole party. Another +5% damage on top for downed enemies and unconditional +5% to both types of down. Unconditional +20% PP recovery. Unconditional -15% status affliction. Just the damage is more worthwhile than Hunter Arts Avenger, and you're ready to go to war over Hunter getting an equivalent unconditional damage increase for its main weapons.

There's nothing wrong with a main-class-attack-bonus, and as the skills are currently set up it's protecting at least one class from being obsoleted as a main by having Techter front for it in a way that would need much more dramatic skill reworking than you're describing.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

It says on these skills in game main class only, in yellow text, anything that is restricted to either main class or weapon specific is written in yellow text.

Honestly the more I’ve read of what you’ve written it just sounds like you wanted to use techter has a fake main class, and your sub class has your actually main class, and have it perform has good if not better than actually using that class has a main class. Which of that turned out to be the case would be horrible game design, has it is you can regain the 10% damage loss from your sub class has techter cause of shifta, which means your damage should be comparable anyway.

That's pretty funny considering I hate techter. I was just excited to experiment with weird class/weapon combinations but kinda bummed to see there isn't much point. I don't wanna play something OP, I wanted the freedom to experiment without being an active detriment to everyone else.

Fearing the power of Te is just a knee-jerk reaction when the only reason its really op is cause everything that makes it good is locked behind its class, forcing you to OPT INTO IT to play it. Also Hunter is weak cause everything that makes it good isn't locked into the class making it make little sense to actually take it as a main class. A 10% nerf is just the lazy way out. Honestly I didn't even know Te was super op before I made this post, but this just sounds like cries to nerf every class combo overall so that Techter isnt too op. Why not just nerf Techter then?

0212ee55-4ab0-4143-8119-b8b436f7c120-image.png

Also typically / is short hand for OR so if I am reading this with the typical short hand this says "Can only be used by a Main Class OR Assault Rifle

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

A 10% nerf is just the lazy way out.

It's still not a nerf, and I'm perfectly happy for a 10% main class weapon buff to make the identity of classes as using certain weapons actually mean something. My view on this wouldn't change regardless of class balance. If you want mages running around with 100% effective swords you may as well ditch the class system altogether.


I do agree the translation on skills needs some work. Generally a slash means "and" which is just not English lol. That's a separate topic.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

It says on these skills in game main class only, in yellow text, anything that is restricted to either main class or weapon specific is written in yellow text.

Honestly the more I’ve read of what you’ve written it just sounds like you wanted to use techter has a fake main class, and your sub class has your actually main class, and have it perform has good if not better than actually using that class has a main class. Which of that turned out to be the case would be horrible game design, has it is you can regain the 10% damage loss from your sub class has techter cause of shifta, which means your damage should be comparable anyway.

That's pretty funny considering I hate techter. I was just excited to experiment with weird class/weapon combinations but kinda bummed to see there isn't much point. I don't wanna play something OP, I wanted the freedom to experiment without being an active detriment to everyone else.

Fearing the power of Te is just a knee-jerk reaction when the only reason its really op is cause everything that makes it good is locked behind its class, forcing you to OPT INTO IT to play it. Also Hunter is weak cause everything that makes it good isn't locked into the class making it make little sense to actually take it as a main class. A 10% nerf is just the lazy way out. Honestly I didn't even know Te was super op before I made this post, but this just sounds like cries to nerf every class combo overall so that Techter isnt too op. Why not just nerf Techter then?

0212ee55-4ab0-4143-8119-b8b436f7c120-image.png

Also typically / is short hand for OR so if I am reading this with the typical short hand this says "Can only be used by a Main Class OR Assault Rifle

Hence why I said a fake techter main, want the skills and buffs, but want to play liken whatever your sub class is. You can still experiment, not getting a 10% damage buff isn’t so much that you can’t use the weapons of your sub class has long has you use then at the right time/situation. You still seem to be missing the point that a sub class is meant to support your main class, as in extra skills and a few extra tools that can be useful in certain situations.

That skill means it can only be used by a main class and only if you’re using a rifle. So even if you’re ranger main it won’t work with your launcher.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Hence why I said a fake techter main, want the skills and buffs, but want to play liken whatever your sub class is. You can still experiment, not getting a 10% damage buff isn’t so much that you can use the weapons of your sub class has long has you use then at the right time situation. You still seem to be missing the point that a sub class is meant to support your main class, has in extra skills and a few extra tools that can be useful in certain situations.

That skill means it can only be used by a main class and only if you’re using a rifle. So even if you’re ranger main it won’t work with your launcher.

You do realise that the main class is still...HALF of the class...not saying "I just wanna play the sub class", more of "I want the sub class weapons to not be pointless for when content gets harder". You think this system will hold up when they start adding challenge quests again and there are strict dmg checks?

PSO2 has a history of adding a lot of challenging solo content, sometimes the damage checks are very tight. I like doing said challenge content. As it stands if there is a tight damage check and I'm just barely missing it, I will try to optimize my play instead of getting better gear. What is the first thing I'll do? Stop using sub-weapons because there is no cooldown on PAs and I can solve the "situational" aspect of sub weapons by just positioning better or playing better and just using the better damage PAs. At that point, what is the point of this system? Sub classes wont really matter much then, I would only use multiweapons for the weapon action, which isn't tied to class.

Nothing at the moment is at that level of difficulty and the game is still in its infancy so why should we ignore systemic problems that will become bigger later?

If they ever made something as hard Solo Sodam in NGS you know what I'd end up playing ranger like? I'd just use Rifle/talis with gunner sub for the PP sustain. I would ignore TMGs completely because why would I want to make things harder on myself. I would just keep Talis turret up and play in a way that I was always in the correct situations for rifle PAs because that's what is optimal. Any time I am not using Rifle PAs would just be seen as misplay cause there is no incentive to do anything else.

As the current system stands, as content gets harder and harder, the less casual parts of the player base will just drop multiweapon class stuff for just weapon actions. At the end of the day thats all the current system is good for.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Hence why I said a fake techter main, want the skills and buffs, but want to play liken whatever your sub class is. You can still experiment, not getting a 10% damage buff isn’t so much that you can use the weapons of your sub class has long has you use then at the right time situation. You still seem to be missing the point that a sub class is meant to support your main class, has in extra skills and a few extra tools that can be useful in certain situations.

That skill means it can only be used by a main class and only if you’re using a rifle. So even if you’re ranger main it won’t work with your launcher.

You do realise that the main class is still...HALF of the class...not saying "I just wanna play the sub class", more of "I want the sub class weapons to not be pointless for when content gets harder". You think this system will hold up when they start adding challenge quests again and there are strict dmg checks?

PSO2 has a history of adding a lot of challenging solo content, sometimes the damage checks are very tight. I like doing said challenge content. As it stands if there is a tight damage check and I'm just barely missing it, I will try to optimize my play instead of getting better gear. What is the first thing I'll do? Stop using sub-weapons because there is no cooldown on PAs and I can solve the "situational" aspect of sub weapons by just positioning better or playing better and just using the better damage PAs. At that point, what is the point of this system? Sub classes wont really matter much then, I would only use multiweapons for the weapon action, which isn't tied to class.

Nothing at the moment is at that level of difficulty and the game is still in its infancy so why should we ignore systemic problems that will become bigger later?

If they ever made something as hard Solo Sodam in NGS you know what I'd end up playing ranger like? I'd just use Rifle/talis with gunner sub for the PP sustain. I would ignore TMGs completely because why would I want to make things harder on myself. I would just keep Talis turret up and play in a way that I was always in the correct situations for rifle PAs because that's what is optimal. Any time I am not using Rifle PAs would just be seen as misplay cause there is no incentive to do anything else.

As the current system stands, as content gets harder and harder, the less casual parts of the player base will just drop multiweapon class stuff for just weapon actions. At the end of the day thats all the current system is good for.

Did you read where I said you need to use the weapons in the right situation? Again sub classes are meant to be for extra skills and extra tools, not to freely use your sub class weapons whenever you want, but has extra tools in the right situation.

How are you going to use a talis weapon action hasn’t a ranger/gunner? Talis is tied to force and techter?