Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.

For techter it’s not even much of a debuff, has they get 10% from shift and another 5% on downed enemies. So they can basically still use any sub class weapon with the same damage buff has a main weapon anyway

Just because you don’t get a 10% damage buff from your sub class doesn’t mean the weapons from your sub class will be useless. You can still use them to inflict stuff like status effects, and get access to a whole bunch of pa’s which might still be better to use than your main weapon depending on your situation. Your sub class is their to support your main class, not to essentially play your sub class like a main class.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Techers SHOULD be able to use any weapon they please if they want to

Techters CAN use any weapon they please if they want to. Everything they advertised about multi-weapon is completely possible.

yeah they CAN, but why would they? any class can use any weapon, by why would they? Sure it doesnt matter right now, but as content gets harder people will always float to what is optimal. As it stands this is more limiting than it should be. Also, I would argue that Te can't use fighter weapons better than fighters (cant use overload), cant use TMGs better than gunner (no chain trigger)

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Just because you don’t get a 10% damage buff from your sub class doesn’t mean the weapons from your sub class will be useless. You can still use them to inflict stuff like status effects, and get access to a whole bunch of pa’s which might still be better to use than your main weapon depending on your situation. Your sub class is their to support your main class, not to essentially play your sub class like a main class.

True but then again, you are better off multi-weaponing 2 main weapons and then just picking a subclass for its passive stats.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

yeah they CAN, but why would they? any class can use any weapon, by why would they?

Because using a non-main weapon at 100% rather than 110% effectiveness (which is far closer to a 9% "loss" if you consider 110% the baseline btw) can still be situationally more advantageous than sticking to the capabilities of your main weapons.

I referenced Pokémon by describing STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) earlier, but that's actually somewhat pertinent because so many of that game's meta movesets involved off-type moves and the STAB bonus in that series is 50% rather than 10%.

So, when I first heard about the fact that Main Class weapons get a 10% boost, I was just as disappointed to hear this.

But then I thought about it.

10% Damage Boost.

It just means Main Class weapon hits at 110% efficiency.

If you're Hu/Ra, your Sword hits at 110% damage, but your Rifle still does full damage.

If you're a Te/Hu, your Wand/Tech hits at 110% damage, but your Sword still does full damage.

Don't think of your Sub Weapon as being weaker.

Think of your Main Weapon as being stronger.

Sub Weapons are still viable.

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

yeah they CAN, but why would they? any class can use any weapon, by why would they?

Because using a non-main weapon at 100% rather than 110% effectiveness (which is far closer to a 9% "loss" if you consider 110% the baseline btw) can still be situationally more advantageous than sticking to the capabilities of your main weapons.

That's true in theory but I doubt you can find any real examples of it in game out side of "just use this weapon action and ignore the rest" which isn't very interesting.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

I doubt you can find any real examples of it in game

I've not progressed enough to have explored all the other classes and am too struck by analysis paralysis on skill point use to experiment, but three possibilities that immediately come to mind are the strong combination of Hunters' three sword skills to parry-counter with a sword sub-weapon, using wires' normal attacks to regain PP absurdly quickly in a group, or melee classes using rifles, rods or talises for ranged damage when they cannot safely (or at all) reach a distant or AoE-using enemy with any of their own weapons.

And that's all just conceptual. Give it a few days and I'm sure we'll see meta subclass multiweapon use start to emerge.

If you are mele and the target is too far away, I think it would be nice to have a way to continue inflicting damage?

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

I doubt you can find any real examples of it in game

I've not progressed enough to have explored all the other classes and am too struck by analysis paralysis on skill point use to experiment, but three possibilities that immediately come to mind are the strong combination of Hunters' three sword skills to parry-counter with a sword sub-weapon, using wires' normal attacks to regain PP absurdly quickly in a group, or melee classes using rifles, rods or talises for ranged damage when they cannot safely (or at all) reach a distant or AoE-using enemy with any of their own weapons.

And that's all just conceptual. Give it a few days and I'm sure we'll see meta subclass multiweapon use start to emerge.

The only meta I've seen is melee classes making wired lance multiweapon for the weapon action and then ignoring hunter subclass because you don't need a sub class for the free gap closer. Then sub gunner, force or fighter and dump all points into the top passives and ignore the rest of the tree and its weapons.

Also there is no content Ive seen in the game that is "too dangerous to be in melee" so far

Another example ranger/force. Can multi rifle/rod, you use your rod to inflict elemental down on a boss, then swap to your rifle for weak bullet, and then either attack with either your rifle or launcher. You can multi more than one weapon, so you could have rifle/launcher on one slot, and rifle/rod on another

I hope the bonus goes up to 50% instead of just 10% A main class techter shouldn't be as strong as a main class hunter with a sword.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Another example ranger/force. Can multi rifle/rod, you use your rod to inflict elemental down on a boss, then swap to your rifle for weak bullet, and then either attack with either your rifle or launcher. You can multi more than one weapon, so you could have rifle/launcher on one slot, and rifle/rod on another

Or you could just, use the down to stack tricky capacitor on talis and do more damage with a better sub class cause techter lets you save 5 SP from force tree since their trees are very similar

@Herald-of-Zenchi said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

I hope the bonus goes up to 50% instead of just 10% A main class techter shouldn't be as strong as a main class hunter with a sword.

thats a problem with the hunter tree just sort of sucking atm.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

The only meta I've seen

We've had NGS for, what, 55 hours? Many of us haven't spent our skill points yet, most have probably only played one class and don't even know other classes' weapons in the first place. Those who have will have been put off paying the 50k per star cost of creating a multi-weapon when that money more immediately needs to go into potentials and enhancement that raise BP to enter the UQs. There are still no YouTube videos breaking down class weapons or skill trees, because the big content creators are still talking about raising BP or showing the locations of the three Qual De Armor chests.

Edit: Funny thing is this conversation is reminding me a lot about the first week of Smash Brawl for the Wii, when everyone was convinced Ike was shockingly overpowered.

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Another example ranger/force. Can multi rifle/rod, you use your rod to inflict elemental down on a boss, then swap to your rifle for weak bullet, and then either attack with either your rifle or launcher. You can multi more than one weapon, so you could have rifle/launcher on one slot, and rifle/rod on another

Or you could just, use the down to stack tricky capacitor on talis and do more damage with a better sub class cause techter lets you save 5 SP from force tree since their trees are very similar

@Herald-of-Zenchi said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

I hope the bonus goes up to 50% instead of just 10% A main class techter shouldn't be as strong as a main class hunter with a sword.

thats a problem with the hunter tree just sort of sucking atm.

How does setting up a force/techter have anything to do with how you would use ranger/force?

Force from what I can tell seems like a very god sub for ranger, gives you ton of pp regen, plus the ability to inflict elemental downs, which you can then stack with your weak bullet and main class weapons

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@Rorana said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Another example ranger/force. Can multi rifle/rod, you use your rod to inflict elemental down on a boss, then swap to your rifle for weak bullet, and then either attack with either your rifle or launcher. You can multi more than one weapon, so you could have rifle/launcher on one slot, and rifle/rod on another

Or you could just, use the down to stack tricky capacitor on talis and do more damage with a better sub class cause techter lets you save 5 SP from force tree since their trees are very similar

@Herald-of-Zenchi said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

I hope the bonus goes up to 50% instead of just 10% A main class techter shouldn't be as strong as a main class hunter with a sword.

thats a problem with the hunter tree just sort of sucking atm.

How does setting up a force/techter have to do with how you would use ranger/force?

Force from what I can tell seems like a very god sub for ranger, gives you ton of pp regen, plus the ability to inflict elemental downs, which you can then stack with your weak bullet and main class weapons

The point i was trying to make is why bother with a class that adds a weapon when you can just mix trees with stuff that already has passives for the main weapon you are using. Yeah sure you can sub force and use rod for ranger, but by the time you get a down from status using techs you probably end up doing more damage just using rifle to stack up weak bullet.

only nice multiweapon if going force sub is talis for the weapon action, but you dont need to sub force to use that. If you wanna do a build with downs better off just goign fighter sub and maxing defeat advantage and defeat PP recover and ignoring its weapons entirely because there will never be a time where its better to use them.

IDK i feel like the 10% damage just makes things more linear.

@Miraglyth said in Can we remove the 10% damage bonus to using "main class weapons" in NGS, just makes multiweapons worse for no reason.:

Edit: Funny thing is this conversation is reminding me a lot about the first week of Smash Brawl for the Wii, when everyone was convinced Ike was shockingly overpowered.

Yeah I can imagine crazy shit like techter being the best at using every weapon in the game.