Module availability considering NGS

This topic is a follow-up to a side discussion in another topic with @TEN-SQUARE-3. The continuation just got delayed a bit due to the NGS closed beta.


So, modules. Shiva modules are available from Final Lament which seems to be a permanent UQ. Their drop rate is reasonably decent from that, and you only need 40 for the whole Klauz unit set so even getting them from the market is probably going to be affordable for several months. I'm going to set those aside.

Exegul, Mitra and Varuna modules are the biggest bottleneck to making Klauz units, which are depending on who you ask either a requirement or highly advised for much of the endgame content. They are also available from Final Lament but I've received possibly none from it after a few dozen Shiva modules so I'm confident their rates are significantly lower. They are primarily available from Divide Quests. More problematically you need way more of them. 100 for Varuna and Mitra, 150 for Exegul.

The weekly point rewards from Divide Quests give 3 modules per week per character. There are a couple one-off titles that give 5-10 of each as well. This means anyone starting today with one character and making a quota every week would need to wait up to 50 weeks until late Spring 2022! If they hurried to take advantage of the remainder of the EXP boost campaigns going on or levelled alt characters like crazy after NGS released and with no boosts, this could be reduced to around 16 weeks with 3 characters and 4+ hours per week (more considering they probably won't be consistently getting full 100% S ranks), which still takes them into September.

Modules can also drop from Divide Quests directly. Excepting Stage 31+ there is one module-dropping boss on the fifth stage (so about 15 minutes per chance) and if you can defeat them before time runs out they have a low chance to drop 1 module. In a couple dozen runs, most of which I have defeated the boss, I have received almost no modules. I do not have any confidence the drop rate is worthwhile enough to support farming when Divide Quests are not active enough to allow either fast runs or the method to guarantee Exegul (and Varuna?) fights on Stage 31.

More on that: There's a way to condense the grind for Exegul / Varuna modules when Divide Quests are highly-populated and have altruistic people willing to idle in the quest when one of the Stage 31 options is their Suppression, so other parties can run it repeatedly for a guaranteed module. But on a smaller ship, the wrong time of day and/or without an active endgame alliance (whose members have probably already finished the grind at this point), the quest search for Stage 31-35 looks like this:

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So to some players that's already not an option and it's not going to get better after NGS arrives. Solo and without endgame gear, your options are to manually run Stage 21-25 and hope for Varuna or Mitra (if you can defeat them in time) or Stage 26-30 which at least guarantees both and even if you can only defeat one before time runs out I have got a module from that. But that's still around 15 minutes for what amounts to a low chance of about 0.3% of overall progress. Getting all the modules this way would take over 85 hours even if the drop rate was raised to 100%.

I believe for the most part at this point players have either had Klauz units for a long time thanks to having the freedom to farm modules back when Divide Quests were more populous, or they've given up on ever getting them because they missed that boat and now it's even slower than the intention for the grind and with NGS 2-6 weeks away they don't feel it's worth what the grind presently is.

The volume of modules required, the low weekly allowance, the very low drop rates, and the short amount of time before Divide Quests dry up even more than they already have means I assert the provision of modules should be raised, either as a campaign prior to NGS (for those who'd like to make a last push to earn them, and with a presumption that Divide Quests will be dead after that campaign) or just permanently because there is no point to this being an extended grind after NGS arrives.

I would suggest raising the weekly reward from 3 to 10 (maybe 15 for Exegul), and/or changing the drop for defeating bosses from 0-1 (mostly 0) to 5-10 with an additional 5 for Stage 31+. This would sustain Divide Quests as a stepping stone to the other OG PSO2 endgame content going into NGS without simply obsoleting them by making modules available through a Weapons Badge exchange (or even worse just doing a Klauz unit handout).

Another idea is to be able to convert Shiva modules into the other types, since you don't need as many and they drop like candy from the UQ.

Also since fewer people are running Divides any more, just getting Divide medals for Emels and Granias is also becoming a pain, for those still farming for another Kluaz weapon, so another source for the medals might also be needed as PSO2 main dries up on players still running anything any more.

@LazerRay said in Module availability considering NGS:

just getting Divide medals for Emels and Granias is also becoming a pain, for those still farming for another Kluaz weapon

Iirc. in jp you can exchange Gold Prize Medals for Granias which would also help those who want to make another Klauz weapon but whether or not we get this exchange here on global is up in the air.

Honestly I think it's just better to run TPD triggers than it is to try and farm up the materials to make a full set of Klauz. They're only 8 RWB5's. People can get away with decent affixes on trailblazer units (can upgrade them at zig to hold S grades.) Klauz units are more of a luxury set to own rather than something mandatory.

@Ryoga said in Module availability considering NGS:

Iirc. in jp you can exchange Gold Prize Medals for Granias which would also help those who want to make another Klauz weapon but whether or not we get this exchange here on global is up in the air.

Just to clarify its 500 Gold Prize Medals for just 1 Grania. Do hope its brought over though.

I honestly don't understand why Emel fragments don't just drop from Luminmechs anyway. The lore says they come from destroyed Luminmechs anyway. Sounds like a drop, not a trade-in to me. Granias as an exchange make more sense. I just hate that Divide is the only place to farm mats.

@Miraglyth And that is why I have reduce my time playing this game. The need for grinding for "end game gears", whether it is the gear or its resources -as a means to greatly increase my DPS-, is redundant when NGS is a few weeks away and we are starting all over from scratch anyway (my main has TB units, and LW, Riv,TB, and EX At weapons). Also the RDR event was a couple of weeks ago and we have no replacement nor workable substitute that would encourage players to grind at all.

I know that the excuses, mostly from "god tier gear" players, who were fortunately blessed by the all mighty Random Number God, is to "git gud". But that logic only make sense from two angles:

  • the time and difficulty put into playing and improving your player would eventually/actually reward players for doing so instead of randomization and/or players (all players) dependencies on events that would just give some items to those players or improve the possibilities of rewarding them.

  • players weren't penalizes, mocked nor under-earned for the time invested in playing and/or trying to perform their best (this notion is a key ingredient to the creation of both trolls and uninspired players)**

In this game the grinding and reward system -outside of exp, which is always consistent- is way too dependent on randomization, gear and augment instead of how "skillful", patience (time being the most overpowered boss in the game), and overworked you are (main arguments in the git gud logic) though I can see it making sense from a business perspective. Sadly if there is any hope it would be NGS and only in NGS that a solution will exist, instead of PSO2.

** Note: I don't even play most triggers because of how toxic some GTG players are to other players with good 13* unit and 15* top tier weapons, but lower/less augments.

@Knight-Raime said in Module availability considering NGS:

Honestly I think it's just better to run TPD triggers than it is to try and farm up the materials to make a full set of Klauz. They're only 8 RWB5's. People can get away with decent affixes on trailblazer units

8 RWB5s to not get them around 99.5% of the time. Slightly important distinction there. And this needs a reasonably populated MPA even more than Divide Quests does so that's going to suffer exactly the same issues going into NGS.

As for Trailblazers, for clarity the deficiency compared to Klauz is 71 All Def, 2 MEL/RNG/TEC Res, 30 HP, 12 PP and 65 All Pwr with some variation both ways in elemental resistances. Considering they need 600 Void Erebite Fragment overall and iirc Malevolent Void UH drops like 6 per run (and again is quite reliant on MPAs), that's also a lot of grind to be that lacking in stats.

Moreover they start with a poor augment set; you can probably beat them overall with a good set of easily-gained 13★ Cradle drops thanks to their set bonus, unless you want to invest a lot of resource into augmenting them at which point you may as well be playing for Klauz anyway.

@Miraglyth said in Module availability considering NGS:

More on that: There's a way to condense the grind for Exegul / Varuna modules when Divide Quests are highly-populated and have altruistic people willing to idle in the quest when one of the Stage 31 options is their Suppression, so other parties can run it repeatedly for a guaranteed module. But on a smaller ship, the wrong time of day and/or without an active endgame alliance (whose members have probably already finished the grind at this point), the quest search for Stage 31-35 looks like this:

d9e82ab2-ff40-49ae-b235-599718d00e79-image.png

It doesn't look like that because those people are waiting for alliance members/friends to join them - it looks like that because soloing is better in Divide quests. I farmed for my modules, and each time I accidently didn't limit parties I would get people who would cost me my run, and bring down my progress by simply dying/not doing enough damage.

The absolute issue I have with this thread is that it almost sounds like what you think is that you need Klauz to farm divide, which I can assure you - you don't. Even trailblazer isn't needed. Schvelle with a budget affix is good enough for Divide, honestly, and Croesus weapons are also more then enough.

I understand about wanting an easier method to farm them, but we already got that - it's Face of the Abyss. The units aren't suppose to be easy to get. They are BiS for every class.

You can buy it for meseta.

@QWERT said in Module availability considering NGS:

You can buy it at meseta.

I don't honestly think it's reasonable to say this.

In order for things to be bought, they must be farmed by someone else. If everyone did cradle to buy out mitra modules, none would exist on the market. Hell, the mitra market has be bought out frequently on ship 1 over the past few months.

One thing I will say to my above points is that I honestly think that Mitra needs atleast a better farming method. I don't agree that you shouldn't have to farm for modules, but Mitra having only stage 30 does hurt that module a ton.

Varuna, Exegul, and Shiva are all fine, IMO.

If Mitra had a Stage 31 fight, that would be good.

Or, hear me out on this - you can just use this as a long term goal to achieve?

There's nothing else coming to PSO2 now with NGS on the horizon. Right now, the most efficient way to get Klauz units is to simply run Primoridal Darkness. The drop rate may be low, but with how easy it is to get Triggers, and how easy PD is in general, you're looking at ten to fifteen minutes a run on average.

The Modules are designed as a way to allow players to work towards the Klaus units when PD either isn't available, or no one is running it. It's not really intended to be THE way to get the units now that we have the UQ and Triggers. As Nic said, the Klauz units are BiS - there is absolutely nothing better then them in the game. There's no reason, at all, that they should be made easily available. You honestly don't even need them unless you're doing the highest end content in the game. If you're not, Trailblazer units are more than enough to carry you through 90% of the content.

Nic is also right about not needing them to farm Divide. I got my Lightweave Weapon just farming stage 6-10 for four weeks using the Darkweave Bow and my Rivalate series units, and had very little trouble in doing so. If you're struggling with Divide Quests, and think you need the Klauz units to complete them, than the problem simply lies with your own ability to play the game, not your units. You can easily get your BiS weapon through just farming 6-10, which has barely any difficulty what so ever attributed to it. The idea of turning modules into guaranteed 10-15 drops is, frankly, just as bad as making the purchasable through Rising Weapon Badges. They don't need to be common, or easily accessible, to obtain. You frankly do not need them if you're capable of playing your class at any level of skill above mashing your face on the keyboard.

The only content you would conceivably need a full set of augmented Klauz units is the Hard Mode version of Sodam, and even than people have cleared it with less. You factually do not need these units to engage in any form of end-game content availble in PSO2. They work well as a crutch, sure, but they're not needed. Klauz units are effectively a way for people to work on the long term to push their character to the absolute best, min/max completed build. And for that, they deserve to be extremely difficult to get a hold of.

Just run Primordial Darkness, farm Meseta and buy them, or just pick away at Divide Quests each week and slowly build towards them in the long term if you really want them. Otherwise, get a set of Trailblazer Units, put some moderate amount of effort into putting non-trash augments on them, and you're good to go for PSO2's endgame.

@NIC said in Module availability considering NGS:

@Miraglyth said in Module availability considering NGS:

on a smaller ship, the wrong time of day and/or without an active endgame alliance (whose members have probably already finished the grind at this point), the quest search for Stage 31-35 looks like this:

It doesn't look like that because those people are waiting for alliance members/friends to join them - it looks like that because soloing is better in Divide quests. I farmed for my modules, and each time I accidently didn't limit parties I would get people who would cost me my run, and bring down my progress by simply dying/not doing enough damage.

First, I must confirm I didn't edit that screenshot. That's literally what it was, so yes it does look like that. Now it wasn't the peak time of day (I mentioned that) but if we go by Steam's numbers that was about half an hour before I checked for this post and at the time there were fewer games!

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I took the screen in the OP with a couple hours left before the weekly reset, which may have made more of a positive impact than I thought. While playing with an open room for around 90 minutes I crossed paths with one other player soloing on two occasions. If that's the most active Divide Quests get now they're already dead on some ships, and presumably holding games for Exegul/Varuna on Stage 31 just isn't a thing anymore.

Second, that doesn't make soloing better for Divide Quests. It just means you're better than the people you've crossed paths with. If the guides are correct, soloing is better for lives, but mathematically worse for clearing stages fully (and faster): Enemies do not scale to party size. Players get a boost based on party size that basically means one player does 300% damage, two do 330%, three do 360% and four do 400%. With the exception of the fifth stage you also do not get this boost immediately which affects smaller parties the most and full parties not at all.

Moreover all quest types favour having multiple people doing different things; in particular Covert Ops really suck in solo play, and being a party of one doesn't stop the game giving you a choice between two of those.


@NIC said in Module availability considering NGS:

The absolute issue I have with this thread is that it almost sounds like what you think is that you need Klauz to farm divide, which I can assure you - you don't. Even trailblazer isn't needed. Schvelle with a budget affix is good enough for Divide, honestly, and Croesus weapons are also more then enough.

You don't need to assure anyone of something so obvious, that would basically be a catch 22. Even checking now I can't even see how I or this topic implied that, or even put much focus on gear. I even mentioned defeating the fifth stage bosses in most of my runs to date.

This topic is because the main way to progress has a weekly limit that amounts to 2% to 3% of overall progress per character, and the apparent drop rate from bosses when defeated doesn't help this much. It is an appropriate grind (and way to hold players' interest) for equipment that is meant to be endgame for around eight months as it was when JP added the exchange. But with NGS filling both roles now it is no longer appropriate. We don't need 30-90 hours of grind to sustain our focus on the game, New Genesis will take care of that.

To put it another way, remember late Episode 3 when people would spend hours in Ultimate Naverius or Lillipa to get a single Nemesis or (then) Slave weapon drop respectively? Now they drop so often in Cradle that some of us would like the ability to set weapon autoloot to 14★ so they don't congest our inventories, and they're worth ~80k in player shops now instead of 12+ million nine months ago. And that's fine, that's how power scaling works.

But the Divide Quest format means it cannot happen for modules - and as LazerRay points out Emels and Granias too - which is why in recent weeks their price has been slowly climbing instead. On whether the grind should be reduced is a point on which we apparently disagree; while Klauz units will (presumably) remain BiS in OG PSO2, they're going to be decreasingly relevant as NGS grows unless OG PSO2 unexpectedly sees some new additions (which on JP would be a first in several months!) beyond June, and that's an aspect they still share with prior obsolescence of equipment that was subsequently made faster to get.


@NIC said in Module availability considering NGS:

I don't agree that you shouldn't have to farm for modules

I'm not sure who you're disagreeing with on that point, but you're agreeing with me; I said in the OP I'd prefer making them farmable over adding them to an exchange. I'd like to see Divide Quests continue to be relevant for those who want to play OG PSO2. They just don't need to carry players' interest for dozens of hours anymore.

Second, that doesn't make soloing better for Divide Quests. It just means you're better than the people you've crossed paths with.

Nah, I'm pretty subpar. I was soloing divide with trash units up to stage 35.

If the guides are correct, soloing is better for lives, but mathematically worse for clearing stages fully (and faster): Enemies do not scale to party size. Players get a boost based on party size that basically means one player does 300% damage, two do 330%, three do 360% and four do 400%. With the exception of the fifth stage you also do not get this boost immediately which affects smaller parties the most and full parties not at all.

The issue is that even one player that doesn't contribute can completely screw up a run. I can kill Mitra/Varuna on Stage 30 (I'm gonna use this as an example because I farmed it the most) with over 2 minutes on the clock, but whenever a rando enters my divide quests it becomes a problem. 4-players is only good if you can co-operate. Having people take aggro on bosses they shouldn't, or not kill the correct boss first can f up a run, especially on stages like 30, where Varuna has his full moveset if you are playing with others.

On top of all that, if I can solo Divide up to stage 35 easily, why would I bring other people who I dont know that can ruin runs? It's kinda why Divide is in the state that it is in.. everyone that can solo divide is going to solo it, and people who can't are looking for good people to leech off of, so pug parties just end up being absolute ass.

Moreover all quest types favour having multiple people doing different things; in particular Covert Ops really suck in solo play, and being a party of one doesn't stop the game giving you a choice between two of those.

Covert Ops is probably the only quest that doesn't favor solo, IMO - but that's just the luck of the draw, IMO. It's only really important if you get 2 Covert Ops, and if you do you just take the L and end it as soon as it starts.

You don't need to assure anyone of something so obvious, that would basically be a catch 22. Even checking now I can't even see how I or this topic implied that, or even put much focus on gear. I even mentioned defeating the fifth stage bosses in most of my runs to date.

Fair enough, maybe I took something the wrong way or something.

But the Divide Quest format means it cannot happen for modules - and as LazerRay points out Emels and Granias too - which is why in recent weeks their price has been slowly climbing instead.

Emels can be farmed in a group by spamming stage 20, Covert Ops. It's probably the only time group divide should be a thing, IMO. You just start floor 20 - if it has a covert ops, you do it and restart, if it doesn't you restart and try again. Pretty fast farm, IMO.

Module prices are probably going up because of cradle as well. Everyone has money now, so everyone can buy out modules. Although personally Varuna Modules have gone down since Klauz was released.

I'm not sure who you're disagreeing with on that point, but you're agreeing with me; I said in the OP I'd prefer making them farmable over adding them to an exchange. I'd like to see Divide Quests continue to be relevant for those who want to play OG PSO2. They just don't need to carry players' interest for dozens of hours anymore.

I agree Mitra needs a better farmable option. I think the others are fine.

@Miraglyth

Well you wouldn't be farming for trailblazers. You'd be buying them off the market like I said. Also, I'm not really saying trailblazers are great. I'm just saying that as far as end game armor goes that can actually have an S grade augment on them they are acceptable and not hard to get. End game for units isn't klauz or go home. There's a few mix matched sets that you can do. And some full sets like trailblazer.

As an aside you can do both. You can run divides weekly whilst buying and running triggers of tpd. Can't speak for other ships but block 7 and block 22 seem to be consistently near full or full on ship 2. And you can also consider alliances running them too if you happen to be in a big one.

Not saying it's a perfect solution to the grind. But at least for my perspective grinding TPD whenever available is going to be less of a headache than the slog grind. Both my friends have gotten full sets from doing TPD grinding.