NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to participate in the closed beta over the weekend. I very much enjoyed how beautiful the game is. However, while I was pleased by how things appeared on the surface, when you scratch below a bit, you still find the remnants of the base foundation that makes the game feel, well, dated. Don't get me wrong, I understand that revamping a game on this scale is going to takes A LOT of time and if you can cut back on the time by using an already pre-existing foundation, why wouldn't you? The fact does still remain that it is now 2021 and expectations have evolved. I know I don't speak for everyone, but I would think a majority of gamers have come to expect a little bit more from newer released titles and I will detail some of the problems I encountered that gave the game a rather dated feeling. This is all my own general opinion, feel free to agree or disagree.

PERSONAL SHOP

  • Not going to lie, I hate it. I hate how it is designed. I hate how it functions. I hate how limited it is in it's functionality. There are so many examples out there of much better systems from World of Warcraft to Black Desert Online. Didn't help change my mind either over the weekend since there were issues with it. This is really the one aspect of the game I really dislike the most and needs a lot of tlc to be on par with other systems. I would much rather be able to click on item, select place in shop, have a bar pop up where I type the desired amount, hit enter and be done. Or if I have multiple items, having the option to select multiple items to put up on shop, select all items I wish to set at same price, and post. Since there are players that play on controller, I understand why the system is how it is currently, but it sure would make the experience far more streamlined for those of us that use mouse and keyboard.

PREVIEW WINDOW

  • This is in base PSO2 too, but when you try and preview inner wear you cannot simply because the preview window shows your character wearing your basewear/outerwear, so you really cannot judge how the piece looks on your character. While I could understand the limitation of it in the base game, in a newer game, I really can't justify it. I hope this will get looked at and addressed later on down the road.

CHARACTER CREATION

  • Thank you for giving us sliders to adjust arm & thigh thickness, as well as hands and feet, but could you also include a slider to adjust lip thickness as well? Also find it weird that during the beta test, if you wanted to change your characters expression, there was an SG charge to do so. So Right/Left Eyelid Vertical Position, Adjust Tongue, Mouth Right/Left Vertical Position & Adjust Eyebrow Horizontal Position, any changes to these resulted in an SG charge. While I understand the charge in changing your characters features, like body type, foot/hand size, hips, etc, I don't think we should be charged SG if we wanted to change our characters expressions. The game is big on fashion. We already have to loot box, err, scratch for our fashions, we shouldn't also have to pay a premium just to change our expressions. This just seems overly monetized.

MISCELLANEOUS

  • At some point, I decided to "restore to default" my graphic settings and doing so oddly enough inverted my camera controls. I had to go to "keybind settings (mouse)" and restore to default to fix it.

  • Hitting "N" to display the Central City Map Index allows you to search for specific vendors, however, even with keyboard and mouse setting, your mouse is disabled and you are unable to click on any of the options. To get around this, you have to hit the esc key so your mouse pointer displays, then you can navigate the window.

  • Selecting "All Storage" in the Item Menu in your player storage does NOT display items that have been placed in Material Storage.

  • Switching between blocks removes your characters "Open Messaging" status and reverts to "Hide".

  • When switching between loadouts, the "Battle Power" displayed on the top of the menu will display your current Battle Power rather than the battle power of the load out you are attempting to switch to.

  • When trying on items from the scratch while wearing Allaia Quartz (SE), my Trois De Rod changed colors from Black to White.

  • While floating near the Balflow Falls area, specifically the very southern end of D-6, north end D-7 there was a Grulf Lore that agro'd onto me while I was in the air and he, uhh, he jumped off the cliff to try and get to me. Poor thing... I went back to the cliff and stood near the edge with the same mob present. When he did his lunging attack, he lunged...right off the cliff. Maybe move the poor fella? Or maybe just not have those mobs on cliffs?

WISH LIST

  • Having a Body type 1 and Body Type 2, Cast, accessories tab would be a nice inclusion rather than just having a list.

  • Being able to customize our UI. Even having the option to reposition certain aspects would be far better than simply having nothing. It is so odd to go from base game that has your mini map on the top right of the screen to the new game that now has the mini map on the top left. Also allowing us the option to toggle whether or not we want to add/hide certain aspects of the UI. The block being displayed on our UI for example is now not there, and I personally would love to have it back where it was in base game, though others might not, hence giving us the option to customize and add/hide aspects would be wonderful.

  • Speaking of customizing UI, I found no way to remap the map key, which was bothersome. I have no idea why the map key was bound to the "Home" key, considering that in most games the "M" key by default is what pulls up your map. For me personally, it makes more sense to have the "M" key the map key and setting the "Home" key as the "Toggle Radar Map" as default settings. But what would be even better would be having the ability to remap those keys to whatever an individual would prefer.

  • "N" is still the Toggle Region map with the coordinate grid, and you still MUST hit the "N" key to close it. Would be nice if hitting "Esc" would also close the window as well.

  • During the trial in which you must defend an ARKS transport vessel, it gently hovers up and down. If you jump on top of the vessel however, your feet get clipped as it hovers. Similar issue at the Rest Area in Central City. If you jump on the ring surrounding the cafe area, you notice it rotates. However, if you're on the ring, you remain stationary. I can understand this being overlooked in older games, but again, the gaming industry has evolved a lot since PSO2 was initially released and people's expectations have grown, especially for the finer details. These issues still being prevalent in NGS kind of puts on display the dated foundation the game is built on. These aren't serious, fix right nyau issues, but eventually coming back to them and adjusting these smaller details to be in line with today's standards sure would be appreciated.

  • Speaking of which, weather effects and swimming? Heck yea! But, your character remains bone dry during a storm and after coming out of the water. I know some may be playing on older PC's and probably don't find it to be a big deal, but for those that do have higher end PC's, having a graphical option such as "Display Environmental Effects on Character" that can be toggled on/off would be nice. That way if we swim and jump out, our character looks wet, gets soaked in rain, maybe build up of snow on our armor during a blizzard, etc. Again, it doesn't require an immediate resolution, just something to come back to at a later time.

  • I do not know if this is by design or not, but having your PP recovery cease altogether while you're using Photon Dash just feels odd. There are two methods of transportation currently, AFAIK: Teleporting and running. If you wish to move quicker while running, you use Photon Dash. Considering it is going to be the main mode of transportation, primarily used for going back and forth between trials, having it negate your PP recovery seems overly restrictive when it is our primary method of getting around the field and I really do not understand the reason for it.

  • On the same topic of Photon Dash, I wish that when you were already using Photon Dash and hit auto run, your character would continue to dash rather than revert to the standard run.

  • Give us a way to update our existing fashion pieces to the newer textures once they are introduced in game rather than having us loot box, I mean scratch for the pieces again. I understand that those updated textures still took time, effort and resources to create, so I at all do not mind paying a premium, 50 -150 SG to update any piece of older fashion to the new, higher resolution one once it is introduced into game. Let me be frank, the game was out for only a year in the West. The amount of fashion that we DID receive is but a mere drop in the vast ocean of fashionable pieces we have yet to receive. Giving your older playerbase the option of upgrading their already existing pieces would show that you value the time and money we have already invested in the game. Since it would cost a premium, you're still, as a company, covering costs for the time & resources that was needed to create those textures, while those who don't have said pieces will still play the scratch lottery, giving you the profits you enjoy presenting in your quarterly reports. No doubt they're going to be newer fashions that come our way that we will have to scratch for, but please, at the very least, show that you value your older playerbase and allow the option to upgrade the pieces that we do have.

Yikes, this is a lot longer than I was expecting, if you made it through my wall of text, I wish I could offer you an achievement of some sort, but all I can offer you is my thanks. This is all just a personal opinion and doesn't require immediate resolution. I do hope that once everything has stabilized and the hype has settled, between content drops, these issues get looked into and resolved so that way the graphical update to the game as well as the core foundation the game is built on are on more or less the same level, or at least the illusion of it.

Thank you again for your time.

@Reiven said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

  • Give us a way to update our existing fashion pieces to the newer textures once they are introduced in game rather than having us loot box, I mean scratch for the pieces again. I understand that those updated textures still took time, effort and resources to create, so I at all do not mind paying a premium, 50 -150 SG to update any piece of older fashion to the new, higher resolution one once it is introduced into game. Let me be frank, the game was out for only a year in the West. The amount of fashion that we DID receive is but a mere drop in the vast ocean of fashionable pieces we have yet to receive. Giving your older playerbase the option of upgrading their already existing pieces would show that you value the time and money we have already invested in the game. Since it would cost a premium, you're still, as a company, covering costs for the time & resources that was needed to create those textures, while those who don't have said pieces will still play the scratch lottery, giving you the profits you enjoy presenting in your quarterly reports. No doubt they're going to be newer fashions that come our way that we will have to scratch for, but please, at the very least, show that you value your older playerbase and allow the option to upgrade the pieces that we do have.

It's not just updated textures though, the models have also been updated with higher polygon counts and there's even some change to the models themselves, there's more changes to the updated outfits than it looks like at a first glance.

https://forum.pso2.com/assets/uploads/files/1615168275529-comparisonwire2sei.jpg

Pic from this topic:

https://forum.pso2.com/topic/10677/new-engine-update-graphics-comparison-information-update-3-10-21

@Ezodagrom said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

It's not just updated textures though, the models have also been updated with higher polygon counts and there's even some change to the models themselves, there's more changes to the updated outfits thant it looks like at a first glance.

Okay, thank you. My point still stands though I feel. Giving older players the option to update the older pieces they do have by paying a premium to do so would be still be a fair way in covering the costs for the graphical artists time in providing us with said update.

I was so bothered to see my character dry after getting out of a pool lol. Its a trivial thing I know but NGS looks beautiful in so many place that it'd seemed obvious that level of detail would be there. There's plenty of clipping in areas though, not just the trial airship thing. Hopefully its addressed in the future.

Also you mentioned lip thickness, there was an option for it. Unless you mean individual lip thickness then yeah, that wasn't there. I went full lips with fangs, hell yeah X)

@Kurogaea said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

Also you mentioned lip thickness, there was an option for it. Unless you mean individual lip thickness then yeah, that wasn't there.

On the NGS-type faces, you can thicken one lip more compared to the other; the part of the lip slider that controls smile/frown on PSO2classic faces shifts the fullness between the bottom and top lips on NGS faces. Unfortunately, it does mean that you cannot get both top and bottom lip to their actual full thickness simultaneously.

While there are things in the shop system I like, there are things I don't too. I still find it weird you can't do an abstract search and the item name has to be exact. Very weird too when an item gets dated and you can't find it in the item cache list.

A few things I will put out there though:

@Reiven said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

PREVIEW WINDOW

This is in base PSO2 too, but when you try and preview inner wear you cannot simply because the preview window shows your character wearing your basewear/outerwear, so you really cannot judge how the piece looks on your character. While I could understand the limitation of it in the base game, in a newer game, I really can't justify it. I hope this will get looked at and addressed later on down the road.

In regard to this, I do find it annoying, however there is a work around: Wear an Outfit (Not an outerwear, an outfit) before you preview things.

@Reiven said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

Hitting "N" to display the Central City Map Index allows you to search for specific vendors, however, even with keyboard and mouse setting, your mouse is disabled and you are unable to click on any of the options. To get around this, you have to hit the esc key so your mouse pointer displays, then you can navigate the window.

This is by design, this isn't just a town map it works in the field as it did pso2 classic. It's built this way so you can pop it up and keep going while looking at it if you need to. Pressing T by default changes from camera to cursor on the mouse, that's what you need to hit to interact with this easily/properly.

@Reiven said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

Speaking of customizing UI, I found no way to remap the map key, which was bothersome. I have no idea why the map key was bound to the "Home" key, considering that in most games the "M" key by default is what pulls up your map. For me personally, it makes more sense to have the "M" key the map key and setting the "Home" key as the "Toggle Radar Map" as default settings. But what would be even better would be having the ability to remap those keys to whatever an individual would prefer.

This one still bothers me this is legacy stuff from pso1 that needs to be discarded in game design idealogy. Back in the day, game controls on PC were not very standardized, these days people have ergonomically over time realized that mouse in right hand and WASD on the left is the way to go. So game devs should be focusing on things close to WASD on the left hand when possible, the further it is from there, the worse an idea it is generally speaking.

The reason this is, this way, is Escape was never meant to be the menu button. In PSO1 on PC, Home opened menus, it was not very intuitive then, and it isn't now. But that's probably why they made holding Home open it (tapping Home still opens map) You can rebind this though I know you can because I did.

One newer idea that I DO like in regard to this however that they need to add, is HOLD actions. They made holding the menu button, open the world map (this also works on escape btw as it also just by default opens the menu on tap) I really wouldn't not mind seeing the entire keybind UI updated, big time. Adding Hold actions to buttons would allow more to be located near WASD whether the players bind it or they do, I don't care, but the functionality would be nice. Also, one other thing that would really, REALLY, improve this game, is doing something 99% of MMORPGs have done since the dark ages, and that's allow modifier keys to be bound the way they're supposed to work. You should be able to do things like Ctrl+1, or Alt+2, or Shift+3, as a bind. I'm especially pushy on this, because frankly, the way to switch sub palettes "officially" is SUPER fiddly and shouldn't be, and even if you are playing on PC and 'skip' to a bar with a key bind, once again you're looking at numpad, which is not on the mouse, and it's no where near WASD. This is one of those things that things like Shift+1/2/3 are good for, and most mmos have been doing, for 10-20 years now. I've had some try to tell me to move it to F Keys or something, I don't really care where you put it, none of the options available are actually good for this by default tbh.

Ships need to be dissolved and / or allow people to freely move between ships. Locking people behind ships is such a dated concept

@redBadger22 said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

Ships need to be dissolved and / or allow people to freely move between ships. Locking people behind ships is such a dated concept

At the very least payer shops should display all ships sellers.

As much as I love the whole PSO universe, I think this game is going to fail because of this. All of the dated elements that still exist will rear its ugly head once the shiny coat of a new game wears off. The fact that it's still tied to vanilla PSO2 shows SEGAS unwillingness to let go of dated assets and gameplay. I played PSO2 jp version for thousands of hours, since open beta to about 2015. The recent New Genesis beta feels earily similiar to that time and I fear it will end up a bloated mess just like vanilla PSO2.

In the prologue 4 trailer one of the clerks at the counter was wet, presumably because it was raining so there is still nope.

@somd215-0 said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

As much as I love the whole PSO universe, I think this game is going to fail because of this. All of the dated elements that still exist will rear its ugly head once the shiny coat of a new game wears off. The fact that it's still tied to vanilla PSO2 shows SEGAS unwillingness to let go of dated assets and gameplay. I played PSO2 jp version for thousands of hours, since open beta to about 2015. The recent New Genesis beta feels earily similiar to that time and I fear it will end up a bloated mess just like vanilla PSO2.

The decision to keep PSO2 connected with NGS was actually a very good decision since it showed older player and GL players that their character and items would come to the new game with them,I feel like people are blowing the content being released out of proportion because they have nothing else to do due to the recent pandemic where they had plenty of time to stay home and play, which is why a lot of the GL community was going through "content drought" because they were speeding through it , NGS from the beta is a fresh breath of air and should not be judged till release.

If SEGA had released NGS as PSO3 and hadn't ported out the characters from PSO2 , you would see a massive backlash and probably an early death of the game, till now SEGA is looking like they're listening to the feedback the community has offered in this last year at least and that's a good sign of progress.

@Fattest-Leg said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

@somd215-0 said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

As much as I love the whole PSO universe, I think this game is going to fail because of this. All of the dated elements that still exist will rear its ugly head once the shiny coat of a new game wears off. The fact that it's still tied to vanilla PSO2 shows SEGAS unwillingness to let go of dated assets and gameplay. I played PSO2 jp version for thousands of hours, since open beta to about 2015. The recent New Genesis beta feels earily similiar to that time and I fear it will end up a bloated mess just like vanilla PSO2.

The decision to keep PSO2 connected with NGS was actually a very good decision since it showed older player and GL players that their character and items would come to the new game with them,I feel like people are blowing the content being released out of proportion because they have nothing else to do due to the recent pandemic where they had plenty of time to stay home and play, which is why a lot of the GL community was going through "content drought" because they were speeding through it , NGS from the beta is a fresh breath of air and should not be judged till release.

If SEGA had released NGS as PSO3 and hadn't ported out the characters from PSO2 , you would see a massive backlash and probably an early death of the game, till now SEGA is looking like they're listening to the feedback the community has offered in this last year at least and that's a good sign of progress.

I do not believe they are arguing against keeping the game connected, but rather, the dated framework that saw very little in terms of updating it to modern standards. Which honestly, I understand the reason. You save a lot of time in the development cycle by just doing a quick copy pasta so you can focus on other elements. However, the fact that it IS just a copy pasta framework with hardly any modernization is a bit disheartening.

That said, I am still giving the team the benefit of the doubt and am hoping that they will come back and upgrade the structural framework as time progresses between content drops.

@Drex said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

@Reiven said in NGS still contains dated elements that should be looked into:

PREVIEW WINDOW

This is in base PSO2 too, but when you try and preview inner wear you cannot simply because the preview window shows your character wearing your basewear/outerwear, so you really cannot judge how the piece looks on your character. While I could understand the limitation of it in the base game, in a newer game, I really can't justify it. I hope this will get looked at and addressed later on down the road.

In regard to this, I do find it annoying, however there is a work around: Wear an Outfit (Not an outerwear, an outfit) before you preview things.

Yes, I am aware of this. It still does not change my opinion that such a work around is very dated and should be, at some time in the future, overhauled and addressed.