Serious concerns about the future of NGS

I had a really fun time on Techter and it felt good playing as Techter. Techter is a support character and I am able to get in and out, melee and range with no problem. The only things that I'd love for techter, which no one else probably would love, is that it would be more about Techs, instead of melee. It might use wands but I really wish that tech would come first, before melee, without making it purely Tech.

I get that Techters are suppose to be close range, for supporting the team but they are supports and are less of a dps, focusing on supporting. Force should be primarily Tech, Techter's should be Tech with melee secondary, with tech enhanced melee attacks, along with their supportive skills. To me, techter's never felt like a support support, with how they were created. Why? because Force can do the same, just weaker buffs. However; Techter was more melee explosion and less support and more dps. They also have less defense, but most use them as melee attackers, even though they are suppose to utilize both close and far ranged attacks.

If they are going to make it more melee, I wish that the techs it uses, at least, casted close range while swinging the wand, after you've casted that element. Your wand would change to that element but the tech skill would also cast, in a different manner supporting a melee with skills enhanced by the tech skills you've casted. Like

Foie Hammer - Condense photons into fire, surrounding the wand into a fiery attack | charged, it become an AoE, exploding on enemies nearby. (just an example)

Also, would really love to be able to change, temporarily, people's weapons to the element you've casted, after you have casted that element, with a buff, to help everyone deal weakness damage... Though this would make things easier and probably FO's would complain a lot more.

They wanted Te/Fo to be a thing but Techter was extremely geared towards Melee and I was hoping it would be Tech with Melee secondaries. This made Te feel like another melee close ranged fighter that can cast tech that no one wanted to cast, since melee was more of the thing, making what was suppose to be a tech base class a melee.

This, to me, made only Force and Bouncer, if you went tech base, the only tech base classes (not counting the successor classes). Everyone else defaulted to melee or ranged. Of course people will say "Te/Fi" I've not seen many Te/Fi, nor "Techter mains" using techs that much. So why would one go Te/Fi for the techs?

There were only a few Te/Fos that were around that made it work for themselves, fortunately. So I'd really like to see more of the two being able to actually blend together and be more playable than it has.

@Macmaxi

There is a proximity check of sorts most probably. I managed to the bottom appendage part and maybe almost enrage tentacle guy when splitting off a nearly full room before other people arrived some minute later.

@PhantasyStar369 Level 15 doesn't have magical skills. It's so fast due to upgrading gear, but in the first place the 3* are meant for levels 8 and above so what's wrong with using them for level 10 special enemies?

@Amari-Kigu said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

TE need buffing badly

idk - TE felt like one of the overpowered main classes to me at least with the lv cap of 15 and the limited skills we had - after watching fights of alliance member who mained TE during beta i must say they are on a really good spot if subed with hunter or fighter

@PhantasyStar369 said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

Showing a clip of a level 15 vs a level 10 doesn't cut it. Show me a 10 versus 10. I would expect a level 15 to kill faster.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, the level barely affects the damage it's mostly the grinded weapon and affixes. There is a cut-off where you can't damage enemies that are 5 levels above you, but aside from that I haven't noticed any difference in damage by being higher level than other enemies. But granted I didn't check.

I'd go back and try exactly that, but you know...

@MasterDarkwingz said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Zeke said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

From the beta it's obvious they're trying to get players to do everything together. Unless it's basic mobs open world vet creatures will take an insane amount of time to kill.

This gives me the eerie feeling that Global users react differently to the combat content than JP.

On one hand, it's good for the current division between the servers for the devs to see this user behavior data.

On the other, it only makes a cross server mission merger with JP a nigh impossibility.

it has already been confirmed Global will never merge with JP and the servers will run at parity due to all the differences in content available and other things I really don't wanna open the can of worms on again since there is a thread dedicated to all that stuff.

@JuggernautGTX said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@PhantasyStar369 said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Macmaxi said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

I know this is pointless to argue against, but seriously the HP are fine.

What is most likely happening is that the HP of enemies is dependant on Room Player count and doesn't undergo a proximity check, meaning that if you aren't engaging the enemies with the entire room, you will have to compensate for every player missing. More coordination will be required, or just make sure to follow the zerg, as that will be what most people will do. Don't quote me on that I have no evidence for it, just a rough guess from what I have seen.

Look a single player doesn't even need 2 minutes to get rid of a veteran

I also estimated the Bujin time to be around 4 minutes but only because I suck at countering him, still this is a lot faster than what people were reporting here.

In the end I'm pretty sure this boils down to the players being scattered, there's really no point in fighting a guy who's scaled to 20 players all by yourself.

Showing a clip of a level 15 vs a level 10 doesn't cut it. Show me a 10 versus 10. I would expect a level 15 to kill faster.

i killed a lv 10 daityl vet with a lv 8 gunner (lol) and lv 4 force sub ( double lol) in about 5 minutes shortly before closed beta ended (ran around in the last hours and tested alot of classes vs various vets) i just perma attacked his feet while not having to worry about dodging cause he cant hit you once and attacked weakspots while he was "downed" - i believe he took the longest out of all vets (the bear was one of the fastest i think 2 minutes but been using lv 15 ranger / force sub who is kinda cheat mode on his weakspot)

edit: also checked alliance discord had a tech kill UQ boss solo in about 8 minutes (1 attempt) and a fighter doing it around in 8 minutes too...so i guess the choice of multi weapon/sub class does play a huge role in how effective you gonna be (didn solo the UQ myself wish i done that too to check how good ranger is compared to those classes)

On day one of the CBT, we had a group of 5 all around levels 9 to 11 fighting Daityl Vet and it was livestreamed and it took us at least 20 minutes to take it down, 3 of us in the group was 2 FO and I was a TE with 1 RA and the other rando was a Hunter, the problem was the block was full and this is probably why it had a huge hp pool also this very much could be due to the fact that tech classes DPS is really bad and I have a theory about it.

@YagyuChan said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@MasterDarkwingz said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Zeke said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

From the beta it's obvious they're trying to get players to do everything together. Unless it's basic mobs open world vet creatures will take an insane amount of time to kill.

This gives me the eerie feeling that Global users react differently to the combat content than JP.

On one hand, it's good for the current division between the servers for the devs to see this user behavior data.

On the other, it only makes a cross server mission merger with JP a nigh impossibility.

it has already been confirmed Global will never merge with JP and the servers will run at parity due to all the differences in content available and other things I really don't wanna open the can of worms on again since there is a thread dedicated to all that stuff.

This is why a lot of players I know are already abandoning any possibility of playing on global NGS server because we all know, the content will be significantly different and global will not get nearly as much content, hardly any collabs and will be hamstringed because of it, Sega know they can just run the global server as an afterthought and hope to get some extra cash but once JP server starts to get serious anime collabs and content that the global server will never get, expect the fights to start.

@Amari-Kigu well it does play a big role on how many people are actually on the map...ive been doing vets solo on empty blocks with no people interfering - could be that you had 20 people on your map or more (pretty sure central was 32 man)

as for the TE being weak...uhm i mentioned it before already that a te/hu is actually giga strong especially with his 5th normal attack...that combo has no downs (except loosing iron will) and only ups

if they wont nerf it until release then it might be the strongest combo i have seen so far....idk about any good fighter combo - might be the 2nd strongest or equal

@JuggernautGTX said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Amari-Kigu well it does play a big role on how many people are actually on the map...ive been doing vets solo on empty blocks with no people interfering - could be that you had 20 people on your map or more (pretty sure central was 32 man)

as for the TE being weak...uhm i mentioned it before already that a te/hu is actually giga strong especially with his 5th normal attack...that combo has no downs (except loosing iron will) and only ups

The problem is, I created another test character and made that a GU/HU and that destroyed it in terms of dmg output and being able to survive, many others I talked to said the exact same thing. I think the problem is the classes have an identity crisis because they play exactly like in PSO2...duh...but NGS isn't PSO2, let me clarify.

RA and GU ranged attacks, even white attacks (basic) attacks hit fast and frequently, even if a boss jumps or repositions these classes lose very little DPS when this happens, lets say these classes white attacks hit for 10 - 20 each bullet....in 5 seconds these classes have already hit the target a dozen times, not only recharging PP and for the most part being able to do it safely at a distance (not counting PAs) where as the FO and TE both have melee attacks only that hit a bit harder but far slower, takes more effort to get PP back with more risk too....sure you can combo but what happens when you have to dodge or the boss repositions...that combo is broken or you miss, you are doing zero dmg. Also, bosses are far more mobile than in PSO2 minus Red Dragon of course 🐖

Add in PAs to this mix and the story is the same, the RA and GU can spam PAs almost effortlessly because they are generating PP far more efficiently, sure they don't hit as hard as a fully charged Tech but they are more likely to hit, if they miss its no big deal unlike FO and TE which a fully charged tech takes a second or two to charge and a good chunk of PP...in that time it takes to charge many things can happen and if you miss, once again...you lose a significant portion of your DPS.

FO and TE both should be ranged classes, but the weapons of both say melee because no talis or rods and even then, PP generations vs DPS doesn't seem to match, what I personally could tell from my experience is that FO/TE both classes in a party did well, but solo they didn't and since the vast majority of people will play solo.

I honestly would increase the potency of all techs, and lower the PP cost slightly too then these classes might be more viable solo. As for Hu and Fi, I only got a taster of these classes so I can't really comment on how they performed, from my limited experience Hu felt kinder overpowered 🐷

@Amari-Kigu said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

because no talis or rods

Rods were in the beta (FO's weapon type) and their normal attacks are ranged attacks though...

@Ezodagrom said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Amari-Kigu said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

because no talis or rods

Rods were in the beta and their normal attacks are ranged attacks though...

I never used them, can't comment on dmg/attack speed. My TE was melee.

@Amari-Kigu said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@JuggernautGTX said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Amari-Kigu well it does play a big role on how many people are actually on the map...ive been doing vets solo on empty blocks with no people interfering - could be that you had 20 people on your map or more (pretty sure central was 32 man)

as for the TE being weak...uhm i mentioned it before already that a te/hu is actually giga strong especially with his 5th normal attack...that combo has no downs (except loosing iron will) and only ups

where as the FO and TE both have melee attacks only that hit a bit harder but far slower, takes more effort to get PP back with more risk too....sure you can combo but what happens when you have to dodge or the boss repositions...that combo is broken or you miss, you are doing zero dmg. Also, bosses are far more mobile than in PSO2 minus Red Dragon of course 🐖

all i can say to that is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYFb5BZRDuY&t=322s i dont see any major dps losses by "dodging"

unlike FO and TE which a fully charged tech takes a second or two to charge and a good chunk of PP

TE isn a strong main class for its charged techs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IalavtA1SE0&t=133s

FO and TE both should be ranged classes

pretty sure that youve watched the fo boss video now and realise that its kinda silly to say this

I honestly would increase the potency of all techs

FO op nerf techs plox

@JuggernautGTX said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Amari-Kigu said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@JuggernautGTX said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Amari-Kigu well it does play a big role on how many people are actually on the map...ive been doing vets solo on empty blocks with no people interfering - could be that you had 20 people on your map or more (pretty sure central was 32 man)

as for the TE being weak...uhm i mentioned it before already that a te/hu is actually giga strong especially with his 5th normal attack...that combo has no downs (except loosing iron will) and only ups

where as the FO and TE both have melee attacks only that hit a bit harder but far slower, takes more effort to get PP back with more risk too....sure you can combo but what happens when you have to dodge or the boss repositions...that combo is broken or you miss, you are doing zero dmg. Also, bosses are far more mobile than in PSO2 minus Red Dragon of course 🐖

all i can say to that is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYFb5BZRDuY&t=322s i dont see any major dps losses by "dodging"

unlike FO and TE which a fully charged tech takes a second or two to charge and a good chunk of PP

TE isn a strong main class for its charged techs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IalavtA1SE0&t=133s

FO and TE both should be ranged classes

pretty sure that youve watched the fo boss video now and realise that its kinda silly to say this

I honestly would increase the potency of all techs

FO op nerf techs plox

You lose DPS when you dodge, and you do zero DPS when you miss. The ranged classes don't have this issue, they have consistent DPS through-out, and in NGS that seems to be a big factor.

@Amari-Kigu bro just watch the video

@JuggernautGTX said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Amari-Kigu bro just watch the video

Proves nothing, fighting Pettis solo which almost certainly scales to the number of players and the dmg output was roughly the same as mine, try soloing Daityl or try soloin' the tower instance as a FO or TE then get back to me. UQ content in NGS is not going to add any serious discussions because the environment and factors work differently.

@Amari-Kigu i wanted to prove my point that 1st force doesn loose dps if they "dodge" (idk how you come to that conclusion) and that force isn a melee class (idk where you got that information from)

2nd of all....daityl is one of the easiest afk vets ever you can literally stand under him and make coffee as you play with 1 hand only

try soloing Daityl or try soloin' the tower instance as a FO or TE then get back to me. UQ content in NGS is not going to add any serious discussions because the environment and factors work differently.

getting back to you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaKpOIGAtiY