Serious concerns about the future of NGS

From the beta it's obvious they're trying to get players to do everything together. Unless it's basic mobs open world vet creatures will take an insane amount of time to kill.

Coming back to this with a close to full upgraded kit, I can say that it's more really that Ra really sucks in dueling zippy lunge-flailing bosses like the Banser and Nogleth compared to a class with an actual counter in place mechanic. Most of the other super enemies are... bearable at least in terms of bulk once you get potential unlocked and are equal to or over their level. I'd still like more committal play options (old roll shoot as a counter, purposely timing Impact Slider iframe into the middle of an attack combo so that you can still continue dodging the rest with with roll cancel at the end, jumping a sweep combo to drop a Diffusion Shell at point blank) from rifle rather than floaty free strafing and passive evasion to make it feel like I'm engaging the enemies, but actually getting flinches out of uncharged Razing Shot is amazing for how it changes the feel. Makes me feel like I'm using an actual rifle instead of a peashooter if I use that instead of the charged shot. There's just not enough feedback to the charged version compared to Positron's loud cracking, hits flying, and recoil.

The fact that you can actually evade shoot backwards instead of the shot always taking you forwards is pretty good too.

@Matt said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

When fighting the Bujin for example and it starts attacking, assuming you want to counter its attacks (which you should want to, counter gameplay should always be more rewarding than outright evasion or tanking), there is nothing you can do except normals as PAs are simply too long. Maybe it's just because PAs are missing since its beta, but it's not a good first impression.

For example as Hunter, the 3rd PA (which you hold and do slow strikes) shouldn't be cancellable during the attacks as it requires a commitment for its strong damage, but the other 2 weaker PAs should be (the Rising Edge and Nova Strike ripoffs), however they simply are not.

Except that if you release your (un)charged sword PA right when you're about to get hit you will parry and deal increased damage with the Photon Art. You will either receive no damage if you timed it perfectly or receive decreased dmg.

I can't say much about fighter as I focused way more on sword as my main weapon on beta but I noticed that you have more leeway during PAs compared to sword to weapon action dodge into the 5th normal attack that is quite strong (provided you had that skill from the tree)

Overall I liked the combat but Bujin is easily my least favorite enemy. Its hard to see his attacks when theres 20 other players attacking him with flashy attacks. He does have that purple glow on his sword when he's about to attack but even then you'll need to see his body a bit to react accordingly since each attack has its own delay from the purple glow.

I'm loving NGS, hating the time it takes to kill a monster but they're trying to make it to where we are actually working together, instead of being solo and instanced off from each other.

My issue with Bujin is that they did not learn how readable Shiva is when 12 players are smacking a small sized enemy. 32 Players makes up in visual noise for it being slightly bigger.

I agree with the HP part on Veteran monsters. But the game ran like butter for me. I was merely using a Ryzen 7 3700 and GTX 2700.

After playing 5 classes now up to around level 10/11, HU, RA, GU, FO and TE with 3* gear. I can say that FO and especially TE need buffing badly, especially TE which once again feels like Sega doesn't understand its own class, but hey - look how long it took the class to get any good upgrades in PSO2, Shifta/Deband doesn't buff enough to warrant anyone putting themselves through torture to level up the class.

GU on the other hand felt amazing and it's ability to dodge was 2nd to none, not to mention damage output was quite nice too so whilst I don't want to see any nerfs here...but honestly, I can see soo many GUs at launch lol

Other issues, I've found so far. I created a second character on a different server with the same name and for some reason, all the dailies etc was already completed so I don't know if the daily/weekly quests have been changed to account wide. It makes sense to stop people from creating massive amounts of alts to farm daily bonuses etc, more clarification is needed on it.

Gathering Dailies are obnoxious. Today's daily to get 10 vegetables took me over an hour to find 9, then server maintenance before I could even finish. Gathering nodes are far too far, don't respawn fast enough and generally a complete joke to find, I had to keep changing blocks over and over to run around the same areas that I've made notes that I found herbs and turnips......ironically I found more RED boxes than vegetables in this time should say something about gathering, this needs big improvements.

I know this is pointless to argue against, but seriously the HP are fine.

What is most likely happening is that the HP of enemies is dependant on Room Player count and doesn't undergo a proximity check, meaning that if you aren't engaging the enemies with the entire room, you will have to compensate for every player missing. More coordination will be required, or just make sure to follow the zerg, as that will be what most people will do. Don't quote me on that I have no evidence for it, just a rough guess from what I have seen.

Look a single player doesn't even need 2 minutes to get rid of a veteran

I also estimated the Bujin time to be around 4 minutes but only because I suck at countering him, still this is a lot faster than what people were reporting here.

In the end I'm pretty sure this boils down to the players being scattered, there's really no point in fighting a guy who's scaled to 20 players all by yourself.

@Macmaxi said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

I know this is pointless to argue against, but seriously the HP are fine.

What is most likely happening is that the HP of enemies is dependant on Room Player count and doesn't undergo a proximity check, meaning that if you aren't engaging the enemies with the entire room, you will have to compensate for every player missing. More coordination will be required, or just make sure to follow the zerg, as that will be what most people will do. Don't quote me on that I have no evidence for it, just a rough guess from what I have seen.

Look a single player doesn't even need 2 minutes to get rid of a veteran

I also estimated the Bujin time to be around 4 minutes but only because I suck at countering him, still this is a lot faster than what people were reporting here.

In the end I'm pretty sure this boils down to the players being scattered, there's really no point in fighting a guy who's scaled to 20 players all by yourself.

Showing a clip of a level 15 vs a level 10 doesn't cut it. Show me a 10 versus 10. I would expect a level 15 to kill faster.

@Vashzaron said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

My issue with Bujin is that they did not learn how readable Shiva is when 12 players are smacking a small sized enemy. 32 Players makes up in visual noise for it being slightly bigger.

ikr lol. Bujins feels like masquerade and varuna mashed together

@Macmaxi said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

What is most likely happening is that the HP of enemies is dependant on Room Player count and doesn't undergo a proximity check, meaning that if you aren't engaging the enemies with the entire room, you will have to compensate for every player missing. More coordination will be required, or just make sure to follow the zerg, as that will be what most people will do. Don't quote me on that I have no evidence for it, just a rough guess from what I have seen.

I noticed there was a scaling of some sort and it did feel like that, so that might be it.

Yeah i'm really not seeing the worry here. Overworld content can't and shouldn't be scaled based on players in the area. That would be a mess to even deal with since you can have people leave and enter freely. And if we cut their HP in half we're going to mow right over them. Enemies feel harder to kill likely because you're below their level. It's a big difference if most people there are actually at level of the boss.

I'm perfectly fine with having scaling existing for instanced areas like the dungeons. But that's it. I've also not seen any issues with double jump or glide. And i'm not particularly worried about class balance. Really the only one you could maybe call UP is force. But i'd chalk that up to the limited access to techs rather than how the class is.

@Zeke said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

From the beta it's obvious they're trying to get players to do everything together. Unless it's basic mobs open world vet creatures will take an insane amount of time to kill.

This gives me the eerie feeling that Global users react differently to the combat content than JP.

On one hand, it's good for the current division between the servers for the devs to see this user behavior data.

On the other, it only makes a cross server mission merger with JP a nigh impossibility.

@PhantasyStar369 It is a level 15 soloing the closest thing the game had to level 15 enemies. The veteran enemies were definitely tuned to be fought by level 13+ players solo/single party. They take roughly 5x longer to fight then their non-vet counterparts and give out roughly that much XP.

@MasterDarkwingz said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Zeke said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

From the beta it's obvious they're trying to get players to do everything together. Unless it's basic mobs open world vet creatures will take an insane amount of time to kill.

This gives me the eerie feeling that Global users react differently to the combat content than JP.

On one hand, it's good for the current division between the servers for the devs to see this user behavior data.

On the other, it only makes a cross server mission merger with JP a nigh impossibility.

How so? It's not like we'd be on two different combat balance patch routes. If you put everyone onto one server the customs will eventually settle somewhere between the two groups.

@PhantasyStar369 said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

@Macmaxi said in Serious concerns about the future of NGS:

I know this is pointless to argue against, but seriously the HP are fine.

What is most likely happening is that the HP of enemies is dependant on Room Player count and doesn't undergo a proximity check, meaning that if you aren't engaging the enemies with the entire room, you will have to compensate for every player missing. More coordination will be required, or just make sure to follow the zerg, as that will be what most people will do. Don't quote me on that I have no evidence for it, just a rough guess from what I have seen.

Look a single player doesn't even need 2 minutes to get rid of a veteran

I also estimated the Bujin time to be around 4 minutes but only because I suck at countering him, still this is a lot faster than what people were reporting here.

In the end I'm pretty sure this boils down to the players being scattered, there's really no point in fighting a guy who's scaled to 20 players all by yourself.

Showing a clip of a level 15 vs a level 10 doesn't cut it. Show me a 10 versus 10. I would expect a level 15 to kill faster.

i killed a lv 10 daityl vet with a lv 8 gunner (lol) and lv 4 force sub ( double lol) in about 5 minutes shortly before closed beta ended (ran around in the last hours and tested alot of classes vs various vets) i just perma attacked his feet while not having to worry about dodging cause he cant hit you once and attacked weakspots while he was "downed" - i believe he took the longest out of all vets (the bear was one of the fastest i think 2 minutes but been using lv 15 ranger / force sub who is kinda cheat mode on his weakspot)

edit: also checked alliance discord had a tech kill UQ boss solo in about 8 minutes (1 attempt) and a fighter doing it around in 8 minutes too...so i guess the choice of multi weapon/sub class does play a huge role in how effective you gonna be (didn solo the UQ myself wish i done that too to check how good ranger is compared to those classes)