Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?

The Crimson Fellwyrm is also a Phantasy Star 1 reference along with Alis.

Wow......Thank you all!

@ErinXh said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

Big Varder/Vardha

You can on a rare occasion encounter Big Varder /Vardha in the Desert Exploration/Expedition. In 9 years of playing this game I probably met him less than 5 times in this setting. The encounter isn’t a secret but I never figured the reason behind this encounter. Why did Sega made this encounter? The only link I have is that Big Varder /Vardha is a resident of Lilipa and that it’s just a random encounter with no real reason behind it. But if someone knows the real reason, I’ll gladly hear it.

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Actually there's a bit more to it. The maps that have that 2nd area, the entrance appears on the left like the image below (rather than the top), in some cases Dark Ragne will appear in the area if you don't see Big Vardha, its also why Ragne's CO will appear for the Desert.

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@ErinXh said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

Around a year ago it struck me that PSO2 is filled with numerous 'Trinities', I assume most of them were intentionally created by Sega but perhaps there are some pure coincidental.

While I liked the rest of your post (knowing the characters' internal names except the Zero and Infinity ones) I do think most of these "trinities" are coincidental or silly.

Hunter / Ranger / Force is the tradition due to being the original three classes through the entirety of Phantasy Star Online's episodes and versions, and the full set of starting classes in Universe and Zero. Fighter, Gunner and Tech(t)er were the pure successors in Universe, retrofitted to be starting sidegrade classes in Online 2 a couple months after release.

S-ATK, R-ATK and T-ATK (Mel, Rng and TEC Pwr respectively) are distillations that were required since Online and Universe used ATP for both melee and ranged damage which (thanks to a poor accuracy/evasion formula and escalating class stat modifiers) meant Beasts were statistically better at ranged classes than CASTs in Universe. Having a specific attack stat for each damage type means this is simply a reflection of there being three base classes.


@ErinXh said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

The Even ????: (I believe it was 'The Even Seats', but I have to re-watch the Oracle Anime again to get the correct name as I forgot.)

PSO2 Global translated it as Arbitrators; it was used a couple of times during the story, most clearly at the start of the Council of Six odd vs even face-off in Episode 2.

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@ErinXh said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

Episode 6 Antagonists: (All three names are exactly 5 letters.)

Not only is there no significance to the letter count but it doesn't even exist. They all come from sanskrit names for Hindu gods* (शिव, वरुण and मित्र respectively) and "Valna" is consistently spelled "Varuna" in English (six letters) both within and beyond Phantasy Star (including a Wikipedia page). Valna looks like a fan-translation mistake.

* The mythology is worth a little detail too as PSO2 uses some of it: While Shiva is a god of destruction (and creation) and Varuna is associated with justice (if not primarily), I can't find anything about Mitra being deception. Varuna and Mitra are paired to the point of being described as indistinguishable which might play into the imitation thing (though PSO2 Mitra imitates Shiva) but also gives more significance to the two being Shiva's helpers than of them being three in total. All three are male.

Both Varuna and Mitra are mags in every version of Phantasy Star Online; most players will remember Varuna, as one of the three first-evolution mags determined only by the class of the character that feeds it when it evolves. To get a Varuna the character feeding it when it hits level 10 must be a Hunter. Mitra on the other hand is one of three second-evolution mags that evolves from Kalki, the first evolution form that needs a Ranger.

Varuna as introduced in Episode 5 is also Varuna Lashiec, a direct name reference to Lashiec (Phantasy Star IV) also translated Lassic (Phantasy Star I), the most prominent antagonist in the series' original game. This and a few moments during Episode 5 (notably departing when Aurora is present) also foreshadows Varuna's role in Episode 6.


While we're on the subject of series references (not that I'd call these secrets but the topic seems to have expanded in scope), Nyau's regular form (but not the seasonal forms or his Blacknyack dealer outfit) has a vial hanging from his neck. This is a direct reference to the petrification-curing vial that Myau (the original musk cat) has in the series' original game which was ultimately used to save and gain another party member.

@Miraglyth In the official credits for Episode 5 on the Japanees side, you can see the name is written as "Valna" (in 0:29 of this video). This is not a fan-translation thing but Sega has shown to be inconsistent with some of these names before in the credits and the global translation has also deviated from some of these official spellings as well.

@VanillaLucia said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

@Miraglyth In the official credits for Episode 5 on the Japanees side, you can see the name is written as "Valna" (in 0:29 of this video).

Alright, but it's still not sanskrit. Shiva, Varuna and Mitra as names have a clear origin and a rushed romanisation that happens to make "Valna" have the same number of letters as the other two and not even in the game's primary language (in-game in particular as an enemy unit he appears as ヴァルナ) is what we call a coincidence.

@Miraglyth I wasn't intending on disproving you or anything along those lines, but rather just that I was pointing out that in the credits Sega simply wrote out his name as "Valna" there despite it appearing differently everywhere else in both the fan translation and the global translation.

@VanillaLucia said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

despite it appearing differently everywhere else in both the fan translation and the global translation.

Oh, it's Varuna in the fan translation? I'd heard it was Valna in that since some people who'd played that were commenting about it being Varuna instead in Global.

@Miraglyth said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

While I liked the rest of your post (knowing the characters' internal names except the Zero and Infinity ones) I do think most of these "trinities" are coincidental or silly.

The use of the number three is probably very much intentinal in PSO2, as the number has always served a very important plot device in most of the games. In the original quadrilogy, it was the star system's three planets that served as a system-wide seal against the Profound Darkness.

In PSO, this theme was again used in Episode 1 with the three sealing Totems that kept Dark Falz, as well as it's tomb ship, locked beneath Ragol's surface. Simiarliy, three security devices had to be shut down around Gal Da Val Isle in order to gain access to the Central Control Tower, and the Seabed Research facility below. Episode 4 was the odd man out without having any reference to the number three, but it also sucked, and isn't worth mentioning.

I remember PSU, other than the Gurhal System having three planets in reference to the original quadrilogy, also used the number in regards to the Relics as well that kept Rykros sealed away (or something along those lines, admittidly it's been a super long time since I've played PSU).

And while I don't remember much of PS0, I believe it did have some reference to the Phantasy Star Serie's love of the number three.

PSO2, obviously, makes a significant use of it at pretty much every chance it gets.

So no, he's absolutely correct, the use of the trinities has always been a long standing staple and tradition of the Phantasy Star series since the beginning.

I got really lucky and got both Big Varder in the Desert and the Cake Shop on Wopal. Only once each but it is nice to know my bad RNG for drops early on was balanced with rare event luck.

On the character names it is great to see the lore connections listed, thanks!

@Blade-Syphon said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

The use of the number three is probably very much intentinal in PSO2, as the number has always served a very important plot device in most of the games. In the original quadrilogy, it was the star system's three planets that served as a system-wide seal against the Profound Darkness.

Leaving aside the question of whether I, II and IV formed a trilogy of their own, this was in many senses never the case. In I there was no Profound Darkness, in II there was still no Profound Darkness and Palma was destroyed to leave only two planets, and IV which introduced the Profound Darkness as a bigger big bad also introduced Rykros as a fourth planet to the Algol system on a long orbit, albeit arguably not one of the seal-forming ones as its role was to remind the inhabitants of the seal's existence.

Gurhal also had Rykros with a similar role, though in that story Parum wasn't destroyed at all; the satellite-crashing event to reference II instead only destroyed Rozenom, one of its four main cities. Speaking of which the satellite itself was the old GUARDIANS Colony vessel; both it and its functionally identical replacement were a planetary venue for the game's missions which meant Universe always had four such locations even before Rykros was introduced.

Online 2 of course started with Naverius, Amduskia and Lillipa which would have been three but for the introduction of Wopal in Episode 2 and Harukotan in Episode 3. The former ARKS Mothership Xion was also Planet Xion as detailed in Episode 2, and thereafter we had Mothership Xiao (temporarily Mothership Shiva during Episode 6) as a functional equivalent. Episode 6 twice set up a barrier to reduce rather than seal the powers of Shiva (using Profound Darkness power) but the first time was just within Harukotan and the second time was applied universally through Omega - and even within Omega, by six sites rather than three. So no part of that involved 3. Separately Amduskia was once two planets.


@Blade-Syphon said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

So no, he's absolutely correct, the use of the trinities has always been a long standing staple and tradition of the Phantasy Star series since the beginning.

I definitely agree that the original three planets are a three.

I just don't think silly things like Hunter and Fighter having three different weapons is meant to be a reference to Palma, Motavia and Dezoris. It's either not consistent with the other four early classes only getting two weapons each or if you include Gunblades for every class simply not true in the first place. They chose 2-3 or 3-4 (if you include Gunblade) weapon types per class as a sensible number, not because it has to be 3 because 3 is special!

Similarly the list includes "non-vocal openings" as a trio, listing Episodes 1, 2 and 3 as those openings. But PSO2 has four openings by Episode 3; Original / PSO classes, Hyunal / new classes, Apprentice / Braver and Magatsu / Bouncer. Notably all four of those videos introduce four template characters. Episode 4 features Borderless as the first vocal opening which is number 5, without even introducing Summoner showing how much they cared for the only opportunity the intros ever had to nod to there being three sets of three classes.

Hitsugi, Kohri and Al are a group of three people? Great. Phaleg is one person. Adam and Enga are a group of two people. Mother, Aratron, Ophiel, Och, Phul, Bethor and Hagith are a group of seven people. ARKS are a group of many people. It's a serious stretch to say that one group out of several in Episode 4 being three people is a reference to Palma, Motavia and Dezoris at all, let alone a deliberate one.

Omega had four nations, and a fifth area of Elmir's making. We do go to Ys Artia, both in the story and as the site of Castrum Demonica: Madness which was one of two Buster Quest types the game ever saw. Again, none of these numbers are three.

You'd think races would be part of this magic trio thing. But besides PSO and the early days of PSO2, there have been few times in the entire series where there have been three races - intelligent or playable. In the first Phantasy Star game ever two (human and musk cat) of at least four (also including Motavian and Dezorian) intelligent races were playable. In II two (human and newman) of at least five (also musk cat, Motvavian and Dezorian) were. In III if you separate Orakians and Laians that's a pair not a trio, and in IV we had several races that were both (human, newman, android, Motavian and Dezorian!). Universe always had at least four races that were both playable and intelligent (human, newman, CAST and beast, introducing duman late on). Online 2 only had three playable temporarily (before also introducing duman) but always had several others (both draconians and lillipans were introduced in early Episode 1, later we also got speaking oceanids and daybreakers).

Similarly the traditional party size throughout the entire series has been four, right back to Alis, Myau, Odin and Lutz. Zomg they all have four letters in their name, and some of the weapon types in PSO2 - Double Saber, Assault Rifle, Twin Machine Gun and Harmonizer - have four syllables in their names!!!! Clearly Phantasy Star has a rich history of fours now, right?

That's getting a bit exaggerative, but hopefully it makes my point - yes Phantasy Star has referenced Algol a lot. Even the grand ending of its story features - by specific name mention, in both languages - the Great Light banishing the Profound Darkness as spoken of in IV (wild idea: Maybe PSO2 is a prequel to the Algol saga). But let's not look for connections so tenuous or frankly incorrect that it undermines the ones that do exist.

@Miraglyth said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

Leaving aside the question of whether I, II and IV formed a trilogy of their own, this was in many senses never the case. In I there was no Profound Darkness, in II there was still no Profound Darkness and Palma was destroyed to leave only two planets, and IV which introduced the Profound Darkness as a bigger big bad also introduced Rykros as a fourth planet to the Algol system on a long orbit, albeit arguably not one of the seal-forming ones as its role was to remind the inhabitants of the seal's existence.

I'm uh..Not really seeing what your point is here, at all. Yeah, no shit Profound Darkness wasn't introduced yet in PS1 or PS2, as it's very clear Sega didn't really know where they were going with the series yet (as is made very clear with the abomination that is Phantasy Star 3). Obviously Palma's destruction in PS2 was more of a "Oh shit" moment than anything else, whereas in PSIV, they narratively made sense out of what was otherwise just a random act of destruction to show how evil the antagonist in PS2 was, thus the birth of the three formed seal.

It's no different than what you see in the Final Fantasy series. FF1 didn't have Moogles, Chocobos, Summons, Cid (ignoring the later retcon addition of Cid of the Lufain from the anniversary editions), or any of the things that didn't make Final Fantasy's traditions a thing. In fact, many of those didn't really start to happen until Final Fantasy III and IV. It doesn't change the fact that those are all very much traditions now in the series - just like the use of trinities is now very much a tradition in the Phantasy Star series.

I mean, you can throw up your arms and argue pointlessly as always, but that doesn't change the fact that using threes, especially as a sealing plot device, has been a thing in Phantasy Star since the original quadrilogy. I mean, you're basically plugging your ears at this point and saying "Nuh uh!", by selectively ignoring things like the three Totems, Control Devices, even the Trinity AI in PSO, or the fact that the three planets in Algol were a trinity sealing device to keep the Profound Darkness at bay simply because" Nuh uh, it wasn't written yet so it doesn't count!" I mean, if you're going to use that argument, you may as well admit than that Rappies aren't part of the game's tradition either, since the only first appeared in PSIII as a random encounter, had a small, bit appearance in PSIV as a reference to III, and didn't really reach popularity until PSO.

Just take the L on this one - yes, a lot of his listings are absolutely a stretch, but that doesn't lessen the importance of the use of trinities in Phantasy Star's story telling. It goes beyond a simple refrence to Algol, and more to Sega just having a quirk with how they tell stories, and using threes, trinities, etc. as a tradition at this point with Phantasy Star, much like how Final Fantasy uses the tradition of always having a Cid, Chocobos, Moogles, Summons, sometimes Crystals, and all that jazz.

@Miraglyth said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

Similarly the traditional party size throughout the entire series has been four, right back to Alis, Myau, Odin and Lutz. Zomg they all have four letters in their name, and some of the weapon types in PSO2 - Double Saber, Assault Rifle, Twin Machine Gun and Harmonizer - have four syllables in their names!!!! Clearly Phantasy Star has a rich history of fours now, right?

Yeah, acting like an ass and being overly hyperbolic doesn't help you look much better either. Do you really have that much of an issue with people pointing out things you didn't know yourself? You literally turned what was supposed to be a fun little topic about discussing easter eggs and references to the PS series into, yet another, pointless debate about how someone's point is wrong.

And before you say it - no, I did not start this pointless argument. I corrected you at a mistaken point, you're the one who had to take it further and start arguing about how it's all one big coincidence, and that there is no actual connection to the use of trinites in Phantasy Star (even though there very clearly is).

Honestly, at this point I'm tired of seeing you constantly turn any kind of discussion into a bickering argument about how everyone seems to be wrong but you. Don't bother responding, I won't see it. I'm tossing you on the block list so I can actually enjoy discussions on this forum without seeing pages of your pointless bickering derailing what should be otherwise fun conversations about nostalgia, easter eggs, and most importantly - hidden cake shops.

@Blade-Syphon said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

I'm uh..Not really seeing what your point is here, at all. Yeah, no [snip] Profound Darkness wasn't introduced yet in PS1 or PS2, as it's very clear Sega didn't really know where they were going with the series yet

That is my point.

Your previous message was that "the number has always served a very important plot device [snip] it was the star system's three planets that served as a system-wide seal against the Profound Darkness". The last part simply wasn't the case until IV because the Profound Darkness wasn't written until IV. So "always" doesn't apply because the game that introduced PD also introduced the fourth planet. At no point either during the series' ongoing creation from 1987 to 1993 or after its completion was your statement ever true.

The series has absolutely referenced Algol and key events in the Algol saga several times. The Ruins seal in PSO (if only a nod), the three main planets of the Gurhal system (in particular Parum to Palma and Moatoob to Motavia), the GUARDIANS Colony crash (to the Gaira satellite crash) and Rykros. Alis (and her laconium sword and Exit and Bindwa (Rope)), Lutz, (Varuna) Lashiec, the Crimson Fellwyrm (red dragon) and Myau's vial all from the original game. Several versions and mentions of Mother Brain or Mother which when fought have consistently used Death Place remixes.

These are all references that stand proudly on their own without imagining they were set up to confirm Half-Life 3.


@Blade-Syphon said in Is there secrets in this game that have not been discovered?:

Do you really have that much of an issue with people pointing out things you didn't know yourself?

Wait a moment. What are you even saying I didn't know? I'm curious here, since you haven't actually corrected anything I've said about the Algol saga. 🤔

This subdiscussion came about because I felt it was silly to act like Hunter having three weapon types (excluding Gunblade) had some deep numeric significance when Ranger, Gunner, Force, Techter, Braver, Bouncer, Summoner and Luster do not. If you're counting that's 8 of the 13 classes that do not use the magic three weapon types as primary weapons.

Meanwhile as previously pointed out some of the lists are factually incorrect. I am not wrong to point out that there are four non-vocal openings before Episode 4's Borderless (the titles of the official YouTube videos even numbers them!) or four kingdoms in Omega. Even if you think one of the five groups specifically at the start of Episode 4 having three people in it has some deliberate connection to Algol (and to point out, ErinXh didn't relate the trinity idea to Algol), you surely can't think I'm wrong on those.

ErinXh made a good post with lots of detail. I even said that, noting I didn't know the template characters' names from Zero or Infinity before. I acknowledged and extended their good detail of the even numbers of Council the Six as Arbitrators. Overall my post contained agreement, corroboration, additional information (I even replayed the longest Episode 2 quest just for those screenshots) and reasonable disagreement with parts of an idea. The latter is not drama; it's just one part of a multi-faceted response. I can't help but feel you've overreacted to this.


This got a little out of control for a handful of posts. Sorry everyone. Hopefully at least some of the references I've introduced to the topic during it are of interest, in particular the presence of Death Place during the Mother Brain / Mother fights throughout the series so I'll share those for reference and because it's one of my favourite tracks in the series:

The last of these was and once again is available as a Personal Quarters music disc; Mother Battle (2nd Half) from the Mother's Disciples SG scratch, revived permanently in SG Collection. That disc was the highest-priority item for me in the totality of our SG Scratch sets, and single-handedly the reason why I first planned to skip Fallen Heroes entirely.


Oh and hey! I've got another one. What was the first ever downloadable Phantasy Star content? You'd be forgiven for thinking it was quests in Phantasy Star Online. But nope! It was 9 whole years before then; a fascinating modem subscription service provided eight prequels to II, each giving backstories to one of the game's eight party members. This means in one way Phantasy Star was Online not only before Diablo (from which PSO drew inspiration) had been imagined but before Blizzard was even called Blizzard.