Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana

@Hooonter

@Kan said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

Again, by all means, dont use katana in endless, rod and rifle re very fast and better at endless mobbing than katana.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 I did not ignore it man, You didn't share your equipment so I just had to go test it my way and share what I found.

gigrants eats up a lot of pp. In cases where mobs are grouped up I would pick rabarta over gigrants any time, specially if its a long run encounter like almost every non-single-instance quest. I usually lay down a rabarta and cast a gizonde or 2 and repeat. But in the case mobs are spread out, gizonde is the better tech for mobbing. Regardless, and I say it again: when im mobbing with rod, I tend to use a mix of rabarta and gizonde, unlike force which is simple gizonde all the way.

I thought I had made it apparent that I play a mix of both rod and katana but again: I started off ph as a katana. I started to feel its downsides, I switched to rod main. Then finishing blow came out and I started using both katana and rod depending on the situation, and rod is generally more powerful & versatile so obv I invested more into it than my katana.

Thanks for pointing out my overcharge. It is very minute but looking at your clip, its definitely there. 19 gizonde casts: 1.05 seconds. For my satisfaction I will use my numbers: DPS = 116k. Right if you time it right flawlessly, you can get a higher amount of dps on gizonde, admitted.

True, terrain thingy can be counted in the mob size, kinda same thing. I know tech sprint charge exists but all quick cut, schmetter and a 2nd cast of gizonde are all faster than walking near the mobs while holding a gigrants.

As for gigrants aoe, again, I would use rabarta just because of how much pp gigrants eats. Moreover: schmetter is not exactly linear. You can control its directions during its animations as well. mobs circled around is nothing too hard to be dealt with, you can schmetter on the outline of the circle and cover a good circumference faster than gigrants with qc + schmetter.

@Kan But by what right do you discount Endless? Even if you say that enemies have no HP for laps 1-2, why does nobody use that katana AoE for laps 3+? Traces of Darkness is done with the fastest with Rod too and it's a quest about AoE even though all the encounters are technically bossing.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

@Matt said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

Also regarding the conversion above: Phantom Time is not really that great, being able to get faster Phantom Times does not really equate to a huge DPS increase. The main use of Phantom Time is to be able to burst specific things so you can break things, cause some skips, do larger AoEs, etc.

For a fun fact: The best Katana/Rifle Phantoms are actually the "Rod Mains".

Phantom time is definitely no where as good has say forces compounds, but it’s still worth knowing the mechanics of it how to effectively build, especially when you can do it without sacrificing the dps of your regular attacks. It’s still free damage and has you said can still be useful in certain situations.

Of course, but the way you build Phantom Time quickly is generally counter intuitive and you will always be losing DPS. There are only 2 specific ways to build Phantom Time that do not cost DPS. That is Rod Gigrants → Gizonde (Rabarta works if you're a frame-perfect God) and counters. Anything other strategy is specifically to build Phantom Time alone, and this should only be done in specific quests for specific strategies (for example, Phantom should cycle all Rifle PAs in the first room of the Episode 6 Trigger to get Phantom Time for Berouge, and in Endless you can drop S-Strafe, S-Verb and Strafe to build Phantom Time extremely quickly)

If you're unaware about the Rod strat, if you can land a charged tech on multiple enemies before the big blade of Gigrants hits, you will gain around 50%+ of a Phantom Time bar, instantly. There is no faster way to build Phantom Time, and it isn't any DPS loss usually as Gigrants, Gizonde and Rabarta are similar in DPS, with Gigrants being the most useful due to mobility, chip damage and range of course.

Phantom Time builds in the same way as Hero Time, that is when you use an attack it gets "decayed" until you use another one and then it slowly steps up to full build. As I'm sure you are probably aware, there is no situation where using multiple attacks is better than just using one in a given situation (this is also true on Hero, actually, but people act like it isn't), as it's not like cycling attacks makes any of them stronger.

There is one exception to this for Phantom, in which when you pop a marker (whether blue or purple), all the decay resets. This is useful to know when you're close to a Phantom Time and want to quickly build it to burst something down. Actually building this way is always slower though, and shouldn't be done except in specific circumstances.

Ultimately though, purple markers end up being something like the equivalent to 3 Ilgrants, and the finisher is so long that the DPS is not so hot. It is definitely useful, but it is not a game changer except to burst things like Gomorus' hands or a mob before it spreads.

Also I would like to mention that Gizonde's charge time on Phantom is 0.35 seconds. Didn't read the rest!

Also speaking about Katana, another place that I use it is on Granz, as the TEC resistance of Ultimate enemies and the way Granz moves makes melee a much better option to kill it, especially in Endless Nightmare.

@Matt said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

@Matt said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

Also regarding the conversion above: Phantom Time is not really that great, being able to get faster Phantom Times does not really equate to a huge DPS increase. The main use of Phantom Time is to be able to burst specific things so you can break things, cause some skips, do larger AoEs, etc.

For a fun fact: The best Katana/Rifle Phantoms are actually the "Rod Mains".

Phantom time is definitely no where as good has say forces compounds, but it’s still worth knowing the mechanics of it how to effectively build, especially when you can do it without sacrificing the dps of your regular attacks. It’s still free damage and has you said can still be useful in certain situations.

Of course, but the way you build Phantom Time quickly is generally counter intuitive and you will always be losing DPS. There are only 2 specific ways to build Phantom Time that do not cost DPS. That is Rod Gigrants → Gizonde (Rabarta works if you're a frame-perfect God) and counters. Anything other strategy is specifically to build Phantom Time alone, and this should only be done in specific quests for specific strategies (for example, Phantom should cycle all Rifle PAs in the first room of the Episode 6 Trigger to get Phantom Time for Berouge, and in Endless you can drop S-Strafe, S-Verb and Strafe to build Phantom Time extremely quickly)

If you're unaware about the Rod strat, if you can land a charged tech on multiple enemies before the big blade of Gigrants hits, you will gain around 50%+ of a Phantom Time bar, instantly. There is no faster way to build Phantom Time, and it isn't any DPS loss usually as Gigrants, Gizonde and Rabarta are similar in DPS, with Gigrants being the most useful due to mobility, chip damage and range of course.

Phantom Time builds in the same way as Hero Time, that is when you use an attack it gets "decayed" until you use another one and then it slowly steps up to full build. As I'm sure you are probably aware, there is no situation where using multiple attacks is better than just using one in a given situation (this is also true on Hero, actually, but people act like it isn't), as it's not like cycling attacks makes any of them stronger.

There is one exception to this for Phantom, in which when you pop a marker (whether blue or purple), all the decay resets. This is useful to know when you're close to a Phantom Time and want to quickly build it to burst something down. Actually building this way is always slower though, and shouldn't be done except in specific circumstances.

Ultimately though, purple markers end up being something like the equivalent to 3 Ilgrants, and the finisher is so long that the DPS is not so hot. It is definitely useful, but it is not a game changer except to burst things like Gomorus' hands or a mob before it spreads.

Also I would like to mention that Gizonde's charge time on Phantom is 0.35 seconds. Didn't read the rest!

Also speaking about Katana, another place that I use it is on Granz, as the TEC resistance of Ultimate enemies and the way Granz moves makes melee a much better option to kill it, especially in Endless Nightmare.

Yeah I use those techniques to build gear a lot, something I’ve actually been practising in endless recently, in particular dropping S-Strafe on mob spawning points when I can. I’ve never managed to get 50% of a time charged when dropping another tech straight after I finished charging gigrants though, so I’m going to have to go back and practice that. I’d imagine that’s only possible to get that much, if you do it straight after detonating a mark.

You sure Gizonde charge time is 0.35 seconds? even before crafting its charge time without any of phantoms reduced charge time is 0.8 seconds. So even an uncrafted one and phantom would still be 0.40 seconds, plus you have the 0.1 second extra charge time for crafting, which I don’t think phantom charge time applies too, I could be wrong, but even if it does that would still be 0.45 seconds.

This is a force guide but it has all the charge times for every tech, before you take into account things like crafting and stuff like photon flare, and phantoms short charge.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TMO8zro-8rhB61R73-rNlg_CC5BnqzEvKgVg6vg5oxM/view

Katana definitely has its uses, it’s sadly just very niche, theirs only a handful of enemies in the entire game, where it’s better to use than any of the other two weapons.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

You sure Gizonde charge time is 0.35 seconds? even before crafting its charge time without any of phantoms reduced charge time is 0.8 seconds. So even an uncrafted one and phantom would still be 0.40 seconds, plus you have the 0.1 second extra charge time for crafting, which I don’t think phantom charge time applies too, I could be wrong, but even if it does that would still be 0.45 seconds.

Crafted gizonde reduces charge time.

@Penguin-Deer said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

You sure Gizonde charge time is 0.35 seconds? even before crafting its charge time without any of phantoms reduced charge time is 0.8 seconds. So even an uncrafted one and phantom would still be 0.40 seconds, plus you have the 0.1 second extra charge time for crafting, which I don’t think phantom charge time applies too, I could be wrong, but even if it does that would still be 0.45 seconds.

Crafted gizonde reduces charge time.

That’s so weird, cause I definitely remember short charging a lot of gizondes when I first crafted it has a force. you’re right though I just tested it on force, and even reset my gizonde to double check, and yeah it’s a 0.1 second decrease in charge time, not an increase like I thought. So yeah that would put the charge time at 0.35 seconds. Well I need to get better at timing the charges on my gizonde.