Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana

Just a thought... but wherever i go everyone says that phantom katana is trash. Why is that so. I'll be starting to play it since today, since i kinda just unlocked it a day ago. I just love katanas and that was what lead me towards maining katana only braver, but goal was always towards the beautiful looking phantom playstyle. But everyone usually recommends Luster or Etoile, or rod/rifle if phantom. I understand their dmg might be better than a katana phantom, but how far can it be? just wanted to know. But anways, my only goal as a new player to pso2 is to get to 85, unlock UH amd make meseta to purchase new outfits XD. Someone juat assure me that katana phantom can clear such things with ease.... that's all i want.

is not that is trash but as you pointed out is the one weapon with Phantom that deal less damage and has less acumulation of Marks, still is not that is a huge variation of damage is just that you need to put more effort using Katana with Phantom that with the other weapons or with using Braver.

those who said is trash didn't even tried by thenselves they just heard from the JP players that love to max out damage and followed in the same logic so ignore then and play the way you want.

I say go for your playstyle, it may actually work out better than the so-called standard ones, PSO2 is not like other MMOs were you have to have very specific builds for endgame, its more based on what works for how you run your chosen class combos.

I myself run my own playstyle of a Ranger, and use my own set up of a Hunter sub when I need more defense and Etoile sub for offense (I did not put points in Damage Bouncer), what I set up works for how I run things and all but one person in my alliance accepts my unique way of running a Ranger (The one person who hates how I run the class thinks everything I do is wrong and tries to argue with me, so I blocklisted them), even how I use my weapons and PAs is not how they do it, but it works perfectly for me.

Katana Phantom isn't trash but it just doesn't really make sense how they decided to scale it on Phantom. Katana makes you get closer, so is more risky, so you'd think it would do more damage in exchange, but for some reason, the other weapons with less risk do more damage. They really should have made Katana Phantom do much more damage than it does. I'm sure it does more damage than some other classes, but for some reason it does less than the other two Phantom weapons.

This was a weird choice for them to do considering classes like fighter exist, where the more risky of a weapon you use the more damage it does. You will still do good damage with Katana on Phantom don't get me wrong, you'll still be able to do the things you could with other Phantom weapons, it's just less strong than the other Phantom weapons.

Phantom's Katana has a few problems compared to the other 2 weapons the class can use.

•Short range on attacks

•One truly good DPS move

•High PP consumption + Low PP regen

•Slow Marker buildup

•Awkward to use

Darkwave Agile/Lightwave Klauz remediates the PP problem on the weapon thanks to it's potential, so that's a plus.

I'd say Ph's Katana shines best in 1v1 encounters, but it still gets outshined by Rifle and Rod because they offer better and safer options. You will do well enough for most of the multiplayer content, but you will struggle more in quests where you have to fight mobs rather than bosses (such as Divide or Endless.)

@Meikoloid said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

Phantom's Katana has a few problems compared to the other 2 weapons the class can use.

•Short range on attacks

•One truly good DPS move

•High PP consumption + Low PP regen

•Slow Marker buildup

•Awkward to use

Darkwave Agile/Lightwave Klauz remediates the PP problem on the weapon thanks to it's potential, so that's a plus.

I'd say Ph's Katana shines best in 1v1 encounters, but it still gets outshined by Rifle and Rod because they offer better and safer options. You will do well enough for most of the multiplayer content, but you will struggle more in quests where you have to fight mobs rather than bosses (such as Divide or Endless.)

Just to further elaborate on this post, it’s one “good” dps move is very backloaded, which means any time you have to dodge out of then attack you lose a ton of damage, and that’s on top of already having the lowest dps out of the three weapons already. It also doesn’t really have any mobbing pa’s either. Which makes it the least versatile out of the three weapons, and very difficult to “main” the weapon.

If you’re just planning on playing casually and doing cradle and UQs, then you can do fine with the katana. You only run into issues with it when trying to do the harder endgame content like Sodam, endless etc.

@Jamesmor said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

is not that is trash but as you pointed out is the one weapon with Phantom that deal less damage and has less acumulation of Marks, still is not that is a huge variation of damage is just that you need to put more effort using Katana with Phantom that with the other weapons or with using Braver.

those who said is trash didn't even tried by thenselves they just heard from the JP players that love to max out damage and followed in the same logic so ignore then and play the way you want.

The damage difference is actually quite a lot, just look at Sodam, where katana would be at its best, has its basically a bossing weapon, and the fact that with the rod you have to do a lot of the fight off element where you’re losing a lot of damage. Despite this the difference in run time is minutes in favour of the rod. That’s without getting into the difference in mobbing.

While I will always say use the weapon and play the way you want, let’s not put misinformation out there about the difference in damage

Phantom Katana is very viable, specially if you use S5: Finishing Blow. This s5 alone is enough for your pp management & allows you to use faster PAs for damage like Normal Rosenschwert or Schmetterling for your main dps & switch to folter only on boss stun phases. With PP no longer an issue, katana easily surpasses rifle in damage & becomes comparable to rod.

I myself am a Ph Katana fan, though I use a mix of all 3 weapons on my main & I can say with confidence that katana's damage potential is far greater than rod (As rod has a very low skill cap) but ofcourse, surpassing rod not easy to achieve at all. Regardless from my experience, in a lot of cases, katana generates focus gauge faster than rod so thats quite significant as well.

In the past I will say that katana was very hard to play with all its PP issues & wacky moments on mobile bosses such as persona, since rod & rifle can track the boss better with their attacks, those 2 had been much more popular. Katana got 1 tracking PA which has a low range. Quick cut for bossing is wacky as the good PAs for katana are non-shift.

Another thing I read above: Katana can do a great job at mobbing, specially if its UH mobs with high hp. 1 Quick cut + shift schmetterling takes about same time as 1.5 gizonde cast and deals about double the damage in a decent controllable aoe & leaves a few frames for another follow-up quick cut. Additionally, it costs 0 PP or it may even recover your PP depending on the number of mobs. I consider it my go-to mob farming weapon on UH (on lower dificulties, gizonde or even kugelstrum does better job)

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@Flaoc You could use the word "low skill cap" to describe all of that. But anyways, all rod has is usage of correct tech, timing the releases, perhaps counting the number of techs during ph time and once you have done all that, you are now a professional ph rod user, no more room to improve beyond that. Not the the case for katana though, and while that does increase the risks and complexity, it does allow you to continuously improve (until it catches up to rod in some cases)

though breaking down what you said: "full invul" you are still using dodge counter on both anyways, "position control" fair, katana has that bad without usage of quick cut/normal schmetter, "range" you are supposed to stay at melee on rod anyways, "aoe gear" does not help in bossing and ph time is very less significant in mobbing, "penalty reset" fair, katana loses a lot of damage on mistimed folter or normal schmetter

(unfortunately I'm all about long stories)

Edit: I take back that ph time is less significant on mobbing. It is definitely significant and thats a fair point

@Kan said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

@Flaoc You could use the word "low skill cap" to describe all of that. But anyways, all rod has is usage of correct tech, timing the releases, perhaps counting the number of techs during ph time and once you have done all that, you are now a professional ph rod user, no more room to improve beyond that. Not the the case for katana though, and while that does increase the risks and complexity, it does allow you to continuously improve (until it catches up to rod in some cases)

though breaking down what you said: "full invul" you are still using dodge counter on both anyways, "position control" fair, katana has that bad without usage of quick cut/normal schmetter, "range" you are supposed to stay at melee on rod anyways, "aoe gear" does not help in bossing and ph time is very less significant in mobbing, "penalty reset" fair, katana loses a lot of damage on mistimed folter or normal schmetter

(unfortunately I'm all about long stories)

Edit: I take back that ph time is less significant on mobbing. It is definitely significant and thats a fair point

You need to go do endless if that’s all you think their is to rod, that will very quickly show you theirs a lot of room to improve. I’m afraid to say it’s damage never catches up to rod even on single target. Even in rockbear I can out damage my Klauz katana with a rivelate rod, and that’s on a stationary target where you’re landing all your hits on you’re katana and not needing to dodge out before you final hit lands. Again look at Sodam run times, that would be katana’s best opportunity to outperform rod, and rod still beats it by minutes.

The fact you’re needing to use finishing blow all the time to maintain your pp is not good, means you’re replacing your skillfull adept will, which is your lifesteal ability and a 20% crit rate loss. Which means you then need to sacrifice another S aug somewhere to get that back which means you lose damage. Thats also presuming you have 300pp and get the full 60% from your skill tree, if it’s less then you are probably going to need 2 S augs to get yourself up to 100% crit rate, which can be a big damage loss.

Has for mobbing katana is downright awful, go watch high score endless runs or any fast runs on UH, it’s all rod and rifle for mobbing, in fact the only time katana gets used at all in these runs are on enemies like masq and anga that force you to use it, to get around weapon resistances. Phantom is not force, Gizonde is an average tech at best for phantom, you are far better of using techs like Rabarta and Gigrants a lot of the time.

Has for phantom time build up, the reason it seems slow on rod is because most people don’t understand the mechanics behind it and how to build it, if you do you can build it nearly has fast on the rod has you can with the rifle. This is also where we start moving away from “maining” a specific weapon cause if you want to maximise this you want to be using your rifle has well in particular placing shift Strafe on mob spawning points, and following up with kugen for a nice chunk of gear accumulation.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 If you talk about endless specifically, its the quest that needs you to improve, not your weapon playstyle. Different stages of endless have different positioning and attacks usage to make the runs fast, that has nothing to do with improving your game as ph rod player since its a very specified content. Also, rockbear is horrible for comparison. Its weak to all elements, has no resistances and is quite ideal target etc. Again, I did not say katana surpasses rod on every stage. Very limited niche cases that it does: example is sodam phase where its weak to katana and not weak to rod.

And I dont get this part of finishing blow. This s5 also gives 2% damage and heals you everytime you sheathe your katana (which is as simple as tap a key). No lifesteal is not a problem. 5% base crit, 50% from tree, 20% from ring, 15% from s6 is 90%. In mpa if you got a techter, thats over 100% idk why you need more than that. If you dont have the s6, 95% isn't low at all. No damage loss here. In a worst case scenario where you have no techter and no s6, you still have about 75% crit rate. I put 75% as my personal benchmark if i want to use precision wills, small price to pay to cover for katana's major flaw: pp management, but if that is unsatisfactory for you, use your secondary weapon of your choice in that situation. Also, this is assuming 250 PP, meanwhile having 280 or even above 300 PP is doable with much ease these days compared to back when ph came out.

I specifically mentioned UH for katana mobbing so endless is instantly disqualified from the list. And if your best argument to that is "Look at clips of other people playing it" you really need to try it out for yourself. And I assure you, gizonde is much better at mobbing than those 2. Their radius is small, they are a lot slower and gigrants in particular has high pp cost. The only upside being that rabarta gives you more focus gauge to prepare for any boss spawns. Regardless though, I do use rabarta occasionally amidst gizonde.

My comparison for focus gauge build up was for bosses specifically. I am relatively new to rifle so I'm not experienced with rifle's focus gauge build up but I can confidently say that I manage to pop out 3-4 ph times on persona UH on katana compared to 2-3 times on rod. (Since Persona, I started utilizing both rod and katana in my rotations so I dont have comparisons for updated bosses like tpd)

@Kan said in Concern regarding my choice for Phantom Katana:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 If you talk about endless specifically, its the quest that needs you to improve, not your weapon playstyle. Different stages of endless have different positioning and attacks usage to make the runs fast, that has nothing to do with improving your game as ph rod player since its a very specified content. Also, rockbear is horrible for comparison. Its weak to all elements, has no resistances and is quite ideal target etc. Again, I did not say katana surpasses rod on every stage. Very limited niche cases that it does: example is sodam phase where its weak to katana and not weak to rod.

And I dont get this part of finishing blow. This s5 also gives 2% damage and heals you everytime you sheathe your katana (which is as simple as tap a key). No lifesteal is not a problem. 5% base crit, 50% from tree, 20% from ring, 15% from s6 is 90%. In mpa if you got a techter, thats over 100% idk why you need more than that. If you dont have the s6, 95% isn't low at all. No damage loss here. In a worst case scenario where you have no techter and no s6, you still have about 75% crit rate. I put 75% as my personal benchmark if i want to use precision wills, but if that is unsatisfactory for you, use your secondary weapon of your choice in that situation. Also, this is assuming 250 PP, meanwhile having 280 or even above 300 PP is doable with much ease these days compared to back when ph came out.

I specifically mentioned UH for katana mobbing so endless is instantly disqualified from the list. And if your best argument to that is "Look at clips of other people playing it" you really need to try it out for yourself. And I assure you, gizonde is much better at mobbing than those 2. Their radius is small, they are a lot slower and gigrants in particular has high pp cost. The only upside being that rabarta gives you more focus gauge to prepare for any boss spawns.

My comparison for focus gauge build up was for bosses specifically. I am relatively new to rifle so I'm not experienced with rifle's focus gauge build up but I can confidently say that I manage to pop out 3-4 ph times on persona UH on katana compared to 2-3 times on rod. (Since Persona, I started utilizing both rod and katana in my rotations so I dont have comparisons for updated bosses like tpd)

While that is true about endless, it also teaches you a lot about you’re class and play style, and how to manage a whole bunch of things, and teaches you how to has efficient and fast as possible in a multitude of scenarios, and does very much make you a better player in normal content too.

Yeah I went back to edit the bit about he 2% I realised after I posted that finishing blow had that, but you saw it before I edited it. Not having 100% crit is kind of a big deal on phantom and needing a techter in the mpa is definitely not idea. Just between your ring and your skill tree that an 8% loss in damage every time you don’t land a crit hit, and that’s without any S augs you might have that go of critical hits. So every time you miss a crit hit that’s a lot to lose, especially it that’s fall on a marker detonation which is very slow to build on a katana and starts to add up on tankier enemies.

So for you to run finishing blow with a 75% crit rate has per your base rate, and using precision will which is another 9%, that means that 25% of your hits are going to be missing out on 17% damage. Which in general content isn’t game breaking but don’t you see where the katana is starting to fall short compared to the rod here, and even the rifle has it doesn’t have this issue either. Plus with finishing blow you are forever stopping yourself from using the petal and precise balance build that allows you to build a weapons with 28% extra damage built into including phrase decay. Which is very strong against bosses.

I only play phantom these days so I have tried it out, and the reason I pointed out other people’s runs is because endless isn’t just special stage orders like break enemy parts or get kills from behind, theirs plenty of times where you are just straight out dps the mobs, plus all the videos on UH runs, and if katana really did match rod and rifle in mobbing people would be using it, cause the fastest runs people use whatever is then best for that specific situation, but no one does.

Rabarta and gigrants generally out damages gizonde, I’ve played techs since I first started playing phantom, has I switched from force, and I very quickly realised gizonde wasn’t like it is on force, it still has its uses but you are definitely going to ben using your other techs a lot. If you think rababrta is slow then you’re probably using the wrong craft for it, you want the one that reduces the intervals.

It’s hard to judge without knowing how fast the run was against persona, I never managed 3 with any weapon against him, but when my alliance was doing it we were generally killing him pretty quickly. But in general for rod the fastest way to build gear against him, is to cast your shifted mass and Ramegid zero whenever he’s out of range and cutscenes. A combination of rababrta and llbarta when he’s weak to ice, use mass on stun phases, counter whenever possible, nagrants has he loads into his final phase and grants and llgrants the rest of the time. Plus the more points you have in lord of thorns the slower your gear accumulation is as well.

@Kan

To give you an example of how fast gear can be built against bosses using rod, here’s a run I did against shiva, took me 1:55 to build a time

https://youtu.be/2jrgVb42F2w