Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?

I would also recommend linking your Steam/Epic accounts to the Microsoft version of the game now otherwise you can lose out on the rewards. It's free Star Gems, as well as an accessory and stamp that are both tradable.

@Sega-Genesis said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Looking at the ARKS Layer Discord, everytime Global does something even a message in a AC Scratch ticket on the website, AIDA makes some snide remark and tries to create this Global / JP thing, when it makes no sense since both are SEGA. They don't crap on the JP side. But why is that? Simple. Because that's how they got their fame and their money. Global is a direct competition to their fame and money that's why AIDA doesn't like Global on the level they do. I mean in Phantasy Star Universe days they were absolutely fine bootlicking the SEGA mods on SEGA Forum for the western version of PSU, but now that they have a stake in something else you get this result.

Sorry, but where exactly? I haven't seen then do anything related to what you are saying they are doing, and a smidge of proof has yet to be provided by anyone in this thread. There's a thing called screenshots you know.

I do wish people who throw around accusations that have been made here would y'know, actually provide proof instead of just saying "it happened trust me guyz". Apart from the webmoney stuff that happened way back in 2016 which was just unfortunate mismanagement.

@Miraglyth said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

It's getting a little off-topic but I'll drop a quick "I agree!" here because the PSO2 file structure is honestly pretty ridiculous. Given the constant creation of models and textures for weekly scratches it might be a bit unwise to stick those in a singular 10 GB outfits.dat file that'd need replacing every update, but those could be kept separate (or batched by update) and all the static content batched.

Oh it'd be completely fine. There's tons of mmos that do this. The whole file isn't replaced, it's just edited each patch. Guild Wars 2 for example, puts almost all of the game into gw2.dat, which is at the moment, 52 gb lol

@MoonRunestar said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

I would also recommend linking your Steam/Epic accounts to the Microsoft version of the game now otherwise you can lose out on the rewards. It's free Star Gems, as well as an accessory and stamp that are both tradable.

@Sega-Genesis said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Looking at the ARKS Layer Discord, everytime Global does something even a message in a AC Scratch ticket on the website, AIDA makes some snide remark and tries to create this Global / JP thing, when it makes no sense since both are SEGA. They don't crap on the JP side. But why is that? Simple. Because that's how they got their fame and their money. Global is a direct competition to their fame and money that's why AIDA doesn't like Global on the level they do. I mean in Phantasy Star Universe days they were absolutely fine bootlicking the SEGA mods on SEGA Forum for the western version of PSU, but now that they have a stake in something else you get this result.

Sorry, but where exactly? I haven't seen then do anything related to what you are saying they are doing, and a smidge of proof has yet to be provided by anyone in this thread. There's a thing called screenshots you know.

I do wish people who throw around accusations that have been made here would y'know, actually provide proof instead of just saying "it happened trust me guyz". Apart from the webmoney stuff that happened way back in 2016 which was just unfortunate mismanagement.

Uh the web archive was posted. Also aren't you a part of ARKS Layer? And funny how are you are downplaying it as mere mismanagement when it was thousands of dollars involved and only after being lit on fire by the community did AIDA start sending refunds to some of the users.

There's no defense for what AIDA did back then, the fact that they had get it scrubbed from the net is proof ot that. And yes I was scammed out of my money by them. What proof are you wanting? Me to go back to those years and show the paypal logs?

@Sega-Genesis said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Also aren't you a part of ARKS Layer?

No? What makes you think that? I'm just a regular guy.

What proof are you wanting?

I wasn't asking for proof of the webmoney stuff as you already posted the internet archive link. Rather I was referring to this bit:

Looking at the ARKS Layer Discord, everytime Global does something even a message in a AC Scratch ticket on the website, AIDA makes some snide remark and tries to create this Global / JP thing, when it makes no sense since both are SEGA. They don't crap on the JP side. But why is that? Simple. Because that's how they got their fame and their money. Global is a direct competition to their fame and money that's why AIDA doesn't like Global on the level they do. I mean in Phantasy Star Universe days they were absolutely fine bootlicking the SEGA mods on SEGA Forum for the western version of PSU, but now that they have a stake in something else you get this result.

It feels like you're wanting to cling to the webmoney issue despite the fact it has been 5 years since then, and that if you were proactive about it (which it sounds like you was not), you would have requested a chargeback and avoided this issue in the first place. Also you willingly sent your money to a stranger on the internet and there's always an inherent risk with that.

I do not see a reason to be "uncomfortable" around Aida at all. Maybe if you were to live in the year 2021 you would understand why people like them so much.

@maii-sakurajima Just a friendly reminder again, that we do not advise players to download any third-party programs because we will not be able to give them the necessary assistance when things go wrong due to these programs. Additionally, if the anti-cheat program recognizes it as a cheat, it may result in an account ban.

@GM-Phantasma maybe when NGS launches on steam i might switch soon for the achievements in the profile but for now I think for me I'm enjoying the tweaker because it gives a lot of customizations i also know the risk of using third party prog and is also bannable but my friend plays JP since beginning of the release of pso2 jp and had no problems so far so I might take his word for it but still I will likely switch when NGS is released so don't worry

im just a regular guy

262653b9-2510-4dcb-bef2-b90f9672b655-image.png

@maii-sakurajima Openly admitting in breaking TOS, might as well ban this guy lmao.

Just put a blanket ban on Tweaker, hopefully Denuvo straight up bans anyone using that POS rootkit miner Tweaker when NGS Launches.

@same No really, I'm just a regular guy. All that the reddit moderator role gives there is a yellow name, and grants no additional abilities that a regular user does not have.

I help moderate over on /r/pso2ngs, and that's it.

@Coil said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Just put a blanket ban on Tweaker, hopefully Denuvo straight up bans anyone using that POS rootkit miner Tweaker when NGS Launches.

Again, where is the proof of Tweaker being that? In addition, who is saying that Denuvo is related to PSO2 at all? The only place it is mentioned is in the EULA, which is standard boiler-plate legal terms that is common across multiple SEGA games on Steam. This part is of interest:

This Product may beprotected (sic) by anti-cheat/hacking software and/or Denuvo Anti-Tamper Protection Technology (“Denuvo Anti-Tamper Technology”).

Emphasis mine.

Methinks people are spreading misinformation, intentionally because they don't like anything involved with Arks Layer or otherwise because they just don't know any better.

The same goes for nProtect GameGuard. The Wikipedia page for it is outdated and does not represent how it behaves with PSO2 nowdays, where it simply loads a kernel driver that unloads itself when the game closes along wirh a few other processes. No service is installed, no files are dropped into system folders. It's still rootkit-like but doesn't embed itself into your install of Windows like it used to.

@Drex said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

@Miraglyth said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Given the constant creation of models and textures for weekly scratches it might be a bit unwise to stick those in a singular 10 GB outfits.dat file that'd need replacing every update

Oh it'd be completely fine. There's tons of mmos that do this. The whole file isn't replaced, it's just edited each patch. Guild Wars 2 for example, puts almost all of the game into gw2.dat, which is at the moment, 52 gb lol

Interesting! I wasn't aware Steam could do updates by delta. Or does GW2 use its own launcher that handles updates separately like PSO2 used to? In order for a hypothetical NGS file structure sanitisation to allow reduced updates in that way, all (presently three) PC ecosystems would need to be capable of that method of update.


@MoonRunestar said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

@Coil said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

hopefully Denuvo straight up bans anyone using that POS rootkit miner Tweaker when NGS Launches.

who is saying that Denuvo is related to PSO2 at all?

There's a bit to unpick here. Apologies for a lengthy reply!

Firstly to raise confidence, Denuvo is almost certainly not presently related to PSO2 beyond the TOU mention. Unless Denuvo have included PSO2 as part of an incomplete group of games that does something new to hide its presence in an installation that nobody has discovered yet (and which would involve Irdeto knowingly delivering a worse service for games outside that group), it is not used by even the Steam installation of the game. Considering nobody among 2 million claimed user accounts have reported experiencing a Denuvo lockout, a codefusion error page or anything of the sort we can be reasonably assured there's no Denuvo in PSO2.

The specific mention of Denuvo among more generic additive software is present in the PSO2 Terms of Use beyond Steam as well. Most obviously and helpfully on this website where they are headlined "SEGA TERMS OF USE". I can probably speak of involvement with this because in recent history I was one of the loudest voices in the debacle about Sonic Mania including Denuvo without any mention on the store page or EULA. (Fun fact, I had the most-recommended review of the game until I replaced it when Denuvo was eventually removed.) Since around then Sega have largely reworked their EULAs to be more generic and to blanket include the possibility of Denuvo specifically while leaving other protective software (like GameGuard) unnamed.

Second, we've had no indication that Denuvo would be involved in any capacity when PSO2 switches over to NGS. Denuvo itself has multiple products that can be added to games; the aforementioned "SEGA TERMS OF USE" boilerplate only mentions their Anti-Tamper product whose purpose is essentially DRM (no matter how much they deny it) and applied for copy-protection purposes. While its name and function would interfere with the efforts of both the Tweaker team and modders, the main reason to use Anti-Tamper would be to prevent piracy of a paid game. PSO2 is F2P, so that purpose is unnecessary.

The Denuvo product Coil probably wants is Denuvo Anti-Cheat, which most people have probably principally or only heard about from the mess that was its quickly reverted post-launch addition to Doom Eternal. But can Denuvo Anti-Cheat issue bans in such a way? Actually, yes! At least through Steam. Their explanatory blog post implies it's a VAC ban as much as they can without saying it, which would be wrong; it is only capable of a game ban which is wholly distinct to VAC bans. But this is at least consistent with Denuvo's usual scummy marketing...

Third, would Denuvo Anti-Cheat pick up on Tweaker's use anyway? I'd expect not. My limited understanding is that Tweaker optionally makes in-game changes to the JP client (most obviously to include translations) but that on Global it's simply an alternative means to download and update the same files and change the same client options as the official launcher does before the game is launched (which is when GameGuard starts working). Unless New Genesis dramatically changes this format or my understanding of what Tweaker does in Global is wrong, it would not be detectable because it's not doing anything to detect. But don't take my thoughts as either advice or endorsement. I'm just thinking aloud.

Fourth and lastly, is there any prospect that Sega might switch PSO2 over to Denuvo Anti-Cheat with New Genesis? Never say never, but I think it's unlikely. Denuvo Anti-Cheat also works by giving its game kernel-level access, so as far as legitimate user complaint is concerned it's no better than GameGuard. I've seen very little objection from PSO2's players about GameGuard in the first place, so I don't expect Sega would think there's a reason to act on that. And as previously mentioned, the Sega TOU doesn't name Denuvo Anti-Cheat (only Anti-Tamper) so they've either not considered its use prior to the last TOU revision or have and just aren't planning to use it. The omission would also mean the risk of a backlash if they did switch to it.

Also according to the TOS there isn't an issue with using third-party software as long as it doesn't modify gameplay. The Tweaker fall inline with the TOS and not even @GM-Phantasma said it is against the rules just advised that there is nothing they can do if there are any problems with it.

Yeah if you're using the Tweaker, if you run into a technical problem with PSO2, it isn't the job of the official PSO2 support team to help you fix it.

Honestly, this entire topic just makes me shake my head at the sheer disappointment of both what's happening to this community (nonsensical witch hunts against anyone who dares to wrong a person in the past, does something they don't like, or simply has the "wrong think" of someone else), as well as a gross misunderstanding of how computer programs work.

I mean, the Tweaker is, at it's core, literally no different than the Final Fantasy XI Windower. Ironically, just like the Tweaker is getting right now, the Windower also had it's fair share of people like Coil and Same who insisted it's creators were malicious, evil human beings hell bent on kicking puppies and cheating through the game. In reality? The Windower, like the Tweaker, was designed to fix the short comings of Square's ineptitude when it came to creating a PC game. All the Windower originally did was, as it's name implies, launched the game outside of Play Online so you could minimize it without the game crashing (because welcome to how SE handled their anti-cheating methodolgy back the old days).

Now yes, one big difference between the XI Windower and the Tweaker is that the Windower eventually went on to be rebuilt as a way to incorporate addons and UI interfae tweeks to XI, which of course lead to even more witch hunting of people claiming Windower users were cheaters, yada yada yada. Long story short - SE has all but openly accepted the use of the Windower, so long as it does not give a player an unfair advantage, despite the game's ToS saying that the use of the Windower should lead to an outright ban.

The Tweaker is, like the Windower, a reconfigured launcher that fixes the faults of PSO2's archaic launcher, as well as it's conflicts with things like the Windows Store, as well as let you play the game off the JPN servers. That's it, that's all it does (well, that and let you brew coffee from afar). There's no root kit installed in it, there's no crpytocurrency mining nonsense going on. The Tweaker is not, in fact, stealing your identity as we speak, and selling it off to some foreign investment firm.

Because here's the reality of it - If it did ANY of this, people would have discovered it. Computer software is not some strange alien technology that requires people to have a four year degree in astroscience to understand. If a program was stealing your information and identity, it wouldn't exactly be hard to find it. Hell, look at Genshin Impact. When the game came out, people like those in this topic were screaming from on high that because it used Denuvo, it was clearly a CCP tool to steal American information, and sell it back to their masters.

And yet...that wasn't true, at all. Because people who actually understood how software works, just knew that while Denuvo does causes issues with performance, it does not, in fact, steal information and send it to the CCP. But again, let's say it did - does anyone honestly think that after millions of people played the game, no one would notice their information leaking over to the CCP? That's just not how reality works.

AT the end of the day - I'm not defending what the tweaker's creator may or may not have done half a decade ago. If people lost money,t hat's unfortunate, but hey, that's the risk you take when it comes to investing, especially with someone who isn't super vouched for. But what I can say is that the Tweaker is not stealing your information, it is not giving people unfair advantages, and it's not some evil program that's going to bring about the end of the world. And do we really need to dredge up these childish little wars over people using Arks-Layer, or how this Discord is worst than this Discord? We're not in highschool anymore, stop acting like it.

It's a launcher modifier that can make coffee from afar, and offers a translation patch to the Japanese client. Maybe it's time to stop throwing these little witch hunts around about stuff that happened five years ago, and instead just worry about making sure the game runs properly.

@Blade-Syphon said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

does anyone honestly think that after millions of people played the game, no one would notice

I'm thoroughly on board with the detail and if possible more so the spirit of your post in general there, but we have seen such large-scale unethical activity in both the technology and even the copy-protection spaces before. Since you mentioned root kits it's pertinent to point out that particular term was popularised thanks to XCP, the Sony BMG music disc root kit they denied both the existence and danger of for long enough that it made its way onto over 20 million discs before finally being proven beyond the weight of their denials.

(Denuvo themselves have occasionally been erroneously linked to the creation of XCP thanks to its use by Sony BMG. But Denuvo's original team largely came from Sony DADC, a totally separate division that instead made now-defunct SecuROM. So that connection is both more real and more relevant, as is allegedly the connection to VMProtect who once accused them of pirating their anti-piracy measures.)

Concerns about Denuvo's security impact and its effect on hardware life have mostly been made up or arose from one-off situations of poor implementation like sickeningly excessive read-write cycles in Rime or Lords of the Fallen at a time when SSD life was more of a concern, so they don't apply any more.

Meanwhile I haven't personally heard about Denuvo being used as a front for CCP data theft but since Denuvo is based in Austria and their owners Irdeto are based in the Netherlands (both subject to EU's heavy data protection laws) it's difficult to imagine. I'm guessing the idea came from Irdeto's South African owners also having a sizeable stake in Tencent? But that's pretty tenuous.

Interesting thought if they're going to try Denuvo's anti cheat. Typically people hate their DRM but I dunno about the anti cheat. Though, I can't say I'm a fan of GameGuard, either, and I highly doubt denuvo's anti cheat is quite as lame as gameguard is if nothing else.