Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?

@Miraglyth said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

@Tis-A-Cat said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

how is that simpler than just using file verification to reinstall the game

Because the backup doesn't need to be redownloaded. Unless you have a fantastic connection that's a big time saving.

so it makes a local backup? why even bother letting tweaker do its thing then instead of just downloading the game from microsoft too.

whole point of doing the tweaker thing is to not have to download the game twice to save file space. if im at the point where id be making a full backup locally might as well just download the ms store version too. yes itll take some time but so would making a full backup

@Tis-A-Cat said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

whole point of doing the tweaker thing is to not have to download the game twice to save file space. if im at the point where id be making a full backup locally might as well just download the ms store version too. yes itll take some time but so would making a full backup

Yes, you only need 1 install with Tweaker to access MS Store, Steam, and EGS. But it seems that you installed the Tweaker version on top of your Steam version and wasn't happy that the Tweaker bypassed the steam launcher - but it launched just fine according your post.

The whole point of the Tweaker was to bypass each individual store and connect directly to the SEGA servers while linking up to specific store account log in. If you are so adamant of keeping the Steam version the way it is, then the Tweaker is a bit moot, as you are going to need to install each version separately to keep each store in their original form.

Sorry to hear that the Tweaker messed up MS Store install, but the Tweaker was the only way for many people to even play the game before Steam came out.

@Tis-A-Cat said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

so it makes a local backup? why even bother letting tweaker do its thing then instead of just downloading the game from microsoft too.

Because either way you save time, the space use of a backup is temporary and limited to how long you need it for, and it would let you switch your one installation to the EGS version too if they ever do another campaign focusing on that.

If you had two installations for Microsoft Store and Steam, you need to download and install the game twice, and keep both installations updated. I'm familiar enough with this because it's my setup, without any EGS capability. But to anyone who only has a Steam installation (and setting aside any account-linking requirements since they're similar anyway) there are two ways to launch the game in Microsoft Store mode:

  1. Separately install the Microsoft Store version, which requires redownloading the full game (a potentially very long time).

  2. Backup their Steam installation (a short time), use Tweaker to convert their Steam installation (a short time), use it for whatever they need, remove that installation, restore the Steam backup (a short time).

Or to put it in simple arithmetic: 2 + 2 < 36.

@HarmlessSyan said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

If you are so adamant of keeping the Steam version the way it is, then the Tweaker is a bit moot, as you are going to need to install each version separately to keep each store in their original form.

tweaker doesnt come with any warnings that it changes how the steam install launches

Sorry to hear that the Tweaker messed up MS Store install, but the Tweaker was the only way for many people to even play the game before Steam came out.

ok?

@Miraglyth said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

  1. Backup their Steam installation (a short time), use Tweaker to convert their Steam installation (a short time), use it for whatever they need, remove that installation, restore the Steam backup (a short time).

Or to put it in simple arithmetic: 2 + 2 < 36.

started the backup process to test it and it looks like it would take an hour and a half to backup, then it would probably take a similar amount of time to restore the backup im guessing. i think i remember installing the game on ms store taking longer, but i wouldnt call an hour and a half a short time. definitely not the 1/13th time youre claiming. i dont recall the powershell being very quick either because it had to do a whole file check

@Tis-A-Cat said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

tweaker doesnt come with any warnings that it changes how the steam install launches

With a quick look on the arks-layer website, I can't find any warnings either. If it does change that behaviour (and its Steam setup guide describes console windows making changes so that's probably likely) then yeah a warning would be good, I agree.


@Tis-A-Cat said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Or to put it in simple arithmetic: 2 + 2 < 36.

started the backup process to test it and it looks like it would take an hour and a half to backup, then it would probably take a similar amount of time to restore the backup im guessing. i think i remember installing the game on ms store taking longer, but i wouldnt call an hour and a half a short time. definitely not the 1/13th time youre claiming

Questionable arithmetic aside, this sounds like it varies by system and connection capability. I didn't pay much attention to how much time Steam said a backup would take but in practise for me a backup took 45 minutes and a restoration took 40 so that was less than 1½ hours for both activities combined.

That's way faster than the unreliable connection I'm often needing even at its best, but surely also faster than many decent connections. To download (not including post-download install time) PSO2 faster than that you'd need an average speed of around 15 MB/s or 122 Mbps, though this will of course vary if you have an under-performing PC with a better connection.

@Miraglyth said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Questionable arithmetic aside,

??? youre the one that gave the 2 + 2 < 36 => 1/13 figure edit: oh i noticed my mistake, that was a vital part of my argument yes, thank you for pointing out my arithmetic error

this sounds like it varies by system and connection capability. I didn't pay much attention to how much time Steam said a backup would take but in practise for me a backup took 45 minutes and a restoration took 40 so that was less than 1½ hours for both activities combined.

That's way faster than the unreliable connection I'm often needing even at its best, but surely also faster than many decent connections. To download (not including post-download install time) PSO2 faster than that you'd need an average speed of around 15 MB/s or 122 Mbps, though this will of course vary if you have an under-performing PC with a better connection.

and a reliable 15 MB/s download speed is what i have

@Tis-A-Cat said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

and a reliable 15 MB/s download speed is what i have

Then most of this last page was unnecessary since I covered off that possibility last page in a post you replied to ask "why even bother". For some people the download is upwards of 3, 6 or even 12 hours and the savings involved with backup/restore there put your "wound up just completely reinstalling the game" (taking less than 2 hours) into perspective. Hopefully this explains why even bother.

@same

AIDA scrubbed things because they had influence over Phantasy Star Communities. Places like PSO World and the PSO2 reddit they have influence over. How do they have that influence? Here's how. In Phantasy Star Universe days they ran a pseudo GM force where they acted like they were GMs and would report people who apparently broke rules. Ever since these days AIDA was trying to make a name for themselves, then PSU died. However with PSO2 they made a tweaker and throughout this software, even when you are in the game it's constantly informing you to "Contact AIDA", or that AIDA made this or that. So everyone who played PSO2 essentially saw the name AIDA. It was pretty ridiculous how much it was plastered there but knowing their history on Xbox 360 like begging people to have their Xbox Live information so they could receive game share games (legit they did this)... it adds up with what happens later on.

The webmoney incident. Where tons of players never got their money or money in full, myself included which I'm still pissed about to this day. AIDA offered a service they'd sell webmoney and you can buy it and get arks cash, well tons didn't and only after tons of people blowing wind up their butt did they start giving out refunds, but I never got mine no matter how hard I tried to communicate with AIDA they would blow me off or make some random excuse as to why it's not there yet. Years went by, nothing.

So we have someone who's known for attention seeking, being shady with money, and of course people will fanboy an app by a person they don't actually know because "I personally wasn't affected." Well nice empathy on you! /s

Looking at the ARKS Layer Discord, everytime Global does something even a message in a AC Scratch ticket on the website, AIDA makes some snide remark and tries to create this Global / JP thing, when it makes no sense since both are SEGA. They don't crap on the JP side. But why is that? Simple. Because that's how they got their fame and their money. Global is a direct competition to their fame and money that's why AIDA doesn't like Global on the level they do. I mean in Phantasy Star Universe days they were absolutely fine bootlicking the SEGA mods on SEGA Forum for the western version of PSU, but now that they have a stake in something else you get this result.

Let's not forget about the rootkit Tweaker had

Can I just add, for the Tweaker fans, that I've installed PSO via the Microsoft store for the first time on my laptop (I play exclusively on XB1) and it works perfectly fine. Take the dive, and try it out folks.

@Arnie-v2000 said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Can I just add, for the Tweaker fans, that I've installed PSO via the Microsoft store for the first time on my laptop (I play exclusively on XB1) and it works perfectly fine. Take the dive, and try it out folks.

So just so we're clear here. When PSO2 first came out the MS had an issue where it would pretty much stop working, and people who have to spend the time they had getting permission to delete the files so they could re-install the game for it to seemly randomly happen again down the road (I don't think this happens anymore). This was an issue that a lot of people turned to the tweaker because (also lobby lag and stuff like that) - I was in the same boat where I didn't use the tweaker because the game worked fine for me until one day I spent like 4 hours trying to figure out why pso2 wouldn't work anymore.

Also, having multiple different pso2s run under the same download (epic, steam, and MS - also started playing Jp, and it's nice as well for that) is great, and I ain't dealing with having to download the game and have 3 different copies of it on my pc.

I know Aida has beef with people and shit, but I don't think completely bashing the tweaker because of whatever happened with them is fine.

too bad tweaker doesnt come with a warning like "hey this could permanently fuck your microsoft store install" because its an unstable software

Yeah, this concerns me too. I wish this whole login debacle was easier to deal with.

So just so we're clear here. When PSO2 first came out the MS had an issue where it would pretty much stop working, and people who have to spend the time they had getting permission to delete the files so they could re-install the game for it to seemly randomly happen again down the road (I don't think this happens anymore). This was an issue that a lot of people turned to the tweaker because (also lobby lag and stuff like that) - I was in the same boat where I didn't use the tweaker because the game worked fine for me until one day I spent like 4 hours trying to figure out why pso2 wouldn't work anymore.

Yeah this is the biggie, the game launched last year on PC in I believe the last week of May or so. Steam was announced and started the first update in August. I was about to give up on the game and I'm sure many actually did, but I know my install botched itself at least 6 times in that time period. This is also, one of the things that would have turned people onto tweaker very early on global.

This is a very lengthy process to fix too, you have to tell the MS store to uninstall. Then the backup files it shouldn't even make, have to be removed, which are located somewhere not accessible to regular users, and requires permissions voodoo to deal with. This however takes a ridiculous amount of time, especially if you're not installing it on an SSD, because Sega did some really bad file management on this game that I honestly hope they rebuild in NGS.

See, thing is, take Warframe for example, a similar style of f2p game, functionally, about the same age also. The game has a total of 188 files in my install, including some random files not everyone would have there. Meanwhile, a stock Sega PSO install, is over 100,000 files. Instead of packing many game assets into say an archive called "sound.dat" and "textures.dat" etc, it made every single file loose. So when the regular every day PC tools touch this, it has to recognize. Every. Single. File. Every one has to have a hash made and checked, every single file has to be moved or deleted when moving as well. In short, It'd take less time to move/modify a few large files, than a million small ones.

So basically, every time it botched this, you'd have to tell Windows to "uninstall." This didn't 'really' uninstall, it just moved the files to that backup area I mentioned earlier, but this involved touching every single file. Then, you'd have to get into that protected area I spoke of earlier, and delete them all, again, a process it does 100k times. Then, if it wasn't permanently deleted, and go sent to the recycle bin, well, you're effectively gonna be doing it another time.

After all that, you can then, reboot, and reinstall the game. Which then would grab an 11gb package from MS, then Sega's very slow patcher, would finish the rest. This is easily a multi hour process of thumb twiddling while it works. Mind you if it was on an SSD this could be faster probably at least 5 fold, but it's still not something anyone should have had to do. But yeah, they started updating the Steam version with Steam, recently, and then, Windows Store was supposedly supposed to follow so this issue may be gone.

I'm a bit concerned about tweaker for the promo stuff myself, actually. I wasn't able to get on the game today I keep getting a verison mismatch when I know very well that Steam updated this last night and no longer shows new updates. I will admit, that tweaker bypassing the patcher is nice, especially if the developer isn't truly using it anymore. However, I dunno if Sega put out another mini patch early today only on that, or what, but I can't even get on atm because of it.

I'd have rather not used tweaker but it's silly to have to have 100gb+ install of multiple copies of the game just to log in via another storefront. Honestly the Epic/Steam situation isn't prolly a big problem, but that windows store login method is a mess.

@Drex said in Regarding to TWEAKER pso2 Can they join the GLOBAL closed beta test?:

Sega did some really bad file management on this game that I honestly hope they rebuild in NGS.

It's getting a little off-topic but I'll drop a quick "I agree!" here because the PSO2 file structure is honestly pretty ridiculous. Given the constant creation of models and textures for weekly scratches it might be a bit unwise to stick those in a singular 10 GB outfits.dat file that'd need replacing every update, but those could be kept separate (or batched by update) and all the static content batched.

Thanks for the info guys i read almost each comments and learned more than what I wanted to learn thanks again im new to pso2 just started last year global release but ms store wont work so I tried the alt they say tweaker which still even right now im enjoying the tweaker anyways thanks again! big help