NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother

I wanted some input. How do you think these enemies will return and in what capacity?

"Dark Falz returns every 1,000 years" is a staple of the Phantasy Star series. Phantasy Star II (1989-90) was set 1,000 years after the original and Dark Falz returned in that, but it was probably first formally confirmed in lore in IV (1993-95) which was set about 1,000 years later again (alongside III).

The moment the story of New Genesis was said to take place 1,000 years after Episode Oracle/Earth/Photoner, they were basically announcing "Dark Falz will be in New Genesis" to the series' most longstanding fans.

What makes this interesting is we're in new territory. The destruction of Profound Darkness as the origin of Dark Falz in IV concluded the series so thoroughly that it's been used as the first and biggest reason to not do a Phantasy Star V for 25-28 years now. That reasoning was likely a large part of why in PSO2 Episode 3 they made sure to put it in temporal limbo instead of calling it destroyed.

But we destroyed the Profound Darkness in Episode 6. So now we're facing the same situation that has been used as an argument against the original series' continuation.

What does this mean? We could simplify it to two possibilities: Either we destroyed the Profound Darkness, or we didn't.

If we did, New Genesis is going to be an all-new plot, and that 1000 years mention was a deliberate misdirection on Sega's part. Basically they'd have told us 1000 years to fool us into thinking it'd be another Dark Falz storyline, only to make the new story be something completely different and surprise us with the excitement of something new. The total lack of a Dark Falz presence specifically 1000 years later would also be a way to confirm to fans that yes, we did indeed destroy the Profound Darkness for good in Episode 6 and that'd actually be pretty neat.

If we didn't, we will likely see New Genesis introduce Dark Falz before too long, and the first confirmation of Dark Falz in any capacity will likely also confirm the eventual return of Profound Darkness as its source. Partly because the two are and will always be inseparably linked, partly because once Dark Falz is introduced there'll be a demand for Profound Darkness that they only have to cede to once in the following years to make it canon thereafter.

Which would be nice for keeping tradition, but as I write this post I'm honestly struggling to consider how they could make it a new story. Do we really want to play the same story again, and to undermine the happy ending of 1000 years prior in the process? In a game that is literally called "New", it would be the least new thing they could do.

I'm glad PSO2 was so faithful to the Dark Falz lore. But I think it may be time for us to find out what a main-line Phantasy Star game can do without it for once. To be honest I think I'd like it if we stepped back from a universal-creation-scale story too. It's starting to feel a little overdone. That New Genesis seems to be limited to Halpha (for now?) is making it feel fresh to me.


Either way, Mother's story is done and that's why she already didn't appear in Episode 6.

I'm an absolutely massive fan of Mother's role and the use of Earth specifically in Episode 4 because it was a huge inversion of Mother Brain's role in Phantasy Star II that I really want to believe was fully intentional because of how genius it would have been. But that relationship has been completed and there's not really any more mileage to be gotten out of it. Mother as a character received a satisfying conclusion as well.

Phantasy Star being what it is (and our four intro heroes already being called Ash, Sue, Gilliam and Rupika again), we can never rule out that there might be another character in the New Genesis story called Mother. But it'd be a new character with a new role that in my mind could never live up to how well they executed her in Episode 4.

"Mother" as a concept can still return just since it is such a generic term that it can be used as an identifier used by her "children" rather than her actual name as a nudge-nudge-wink-wink to Mother/Mother Brain.

One possible way to bring her in is that she is the source of the Dolls, maybe even under the influence of the reemerging Dark Falz/Profound Darkness.

@AndrlCh said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

One possible way to bring her in is that she is the source of the Dolls, maybe even under the influence of the reemerging Dark Falz/Profound Darkness.

So they're basically the Motherspawn and we've got exactly the same story again 😛

I have no real knowledge of PSO lore beyond what's in PSO2, but I assume dark falz will be back in some form if they're such a series mainstay. It's like in Megaman when you see Wily get crushed to "death" in MM3, and then MM4+5+6 all have plots where you fight someone who isn't Wily, but then just kidding each game ends with you fighting Wily anyway because he's not dead and always is scheming something.

Since the profound darkness (at least in PSO2) was artificially created, and things like "dolls" are usually artificial beings/life made by someone else, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out whatever made the dolls ended up making a new profound darkness/dark falz/ whatever as well (possibly with Dolls being a stepping stone on their way to replicating PD deliberately, or just another accident). That way, we keep our happy ending in PSO2, it's just that someone else decided to do the same fuckup again as the photoners did 1000 years later.

@Miraglyth said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

@AndrlCh said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

One possible way to bring her in is that she is the source of the Dolls, maybe even under the influence of the reemerging Dark Falz/Profound Darkness.

So they're basically the Motherspawn and we've got exactly the same story again 😛

I mean if I’m being honest the Phantasy Star series was never really about originality in its story and only really really started to differentiate itself when it moved from standard RPG turn based combat into ARPG combat. So to say we might have a similar story to base PSO2 wouldn’t be a stretch.

@Miraglyth I'm thinking more of "Mother" being the AI that was used to design and build the Dolls that then went rogue, maybe even having started as the AI used to terraform Halpha, similar to Mother Brain's role in Phantasy Star II or Mother Trinity in PSZero, with the Dolls being a system created to fight against her original creators (either ARKS or Photoners).

It could lead to a scenario where the player finds out that Mother is based on the mind of a character from PSO2, like an attempt to recreate Xion or Xiao, a corrupted Xierra, or setting Matoi as the core of the AI.

Dark Falz and so on are beings of Darkness. According to the lore the Darkness can never be truly defeated since its the opposite of Light. In order to get rid of one you must get rid of the other which would destroy life.

Their entire story is based on a cycle that can't be broken unless everyone dies.

@Zeke said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

Dark Falz and so on are beings of Darkness. According to the lore the Darkness can never be truly defeated since its the opposite of Light. In order to get rid of one you must get rid of the other which would destroy life.

Their entire story is based on a cycle that can't be broken unless everyone dies.

I thought that the lore reasons to why the Profound Darkness can’t really die was because as long as Photons and living beings exist the Profound Darkness can be reborn from the darkness of people’s hearts. I do agree however the cycle can’t be stopped unless everyone dies.

Mother could return if she manages to "reassemble herself" but I don't see her being an enemy if she does. On that note Phaleg could also return as she doesn't really seem to age.

Dark Falz never left so I wouldn't even talk about "returning" here. Al is a Dark Falz (albeit a mutated one) even though I don't see him being an antagonist and we have no reason to asume that there couldn't be other DFs who survived the end of EP6 due to them "wandering of" into some other parts of the universe.

There are also other things to keep in mind here such as the compete absence of the photoner leadership that were responsible for creating the PD to begin with. Furthermore, we do know that "Dark Falz like" entities such as Magatsu can come into being without actually being related to the Profound Darkness at all.

The only thing that should be (and stay) gone (from the story) is the Profound Darkness itself but other than that the story is still full of open ends.

@Akonyl said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

of PSO lore

The stuff I spoke of predates Online (2000-01). Online itself has tenuous references to the classic series; both Universe and Online 2 were more direct about that. If anything of Classic, Online, Universe and Online 2, Online has arguably been the biggest outlier when it comes to storylines.


@Akonyl said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

but then just kidding each game ends with you fighting Wily anyway

Yeah that's kind of what I'd be annoyed by. I don't really want to spend 12-24 months thinking we're in a new story but then psych it's the same story again and now the next several years are going to be thoroughly predictable because once you're on the Profound Darkness train there's no getting off until you summon up the Great Light yet again.

It's worth mentioning that the Mega Man canon itself performed a distant continuation that gave the series fully new non-Dr. Wily evil forces. Multiple times in fact; the X series, the Zero series and then its close relative in the ZX series are all part of the same overall timeline. Arguably several of those enemies were like Dr. Wily (especially Dr. Weil), but they were still at least new entities, y'know?


@NotWhoUThink said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

I mean if I’m being honest the Phantasy Star series was never really about originality

Not sure I'd agree... each continuation of the Classic series expanded the lore. Online was primarily a story of corrupted planetary migration that only has loose parallels with that of the Earthmen in II (who were not the game's perspective and were introduced at the last minute) and the dome ships of III. Universe was a story of racial conflict.

Both Online and Universe had their own underlying stories and themes that for the most part had Dark Falz as a concurrent but not always primary adversary. Online 2 from the Prologue onwards was introduced as pure ARKS vs Dark Falz and with the partial exception of Episode 4 everything else has been a Dr. Wily style "Psych! It's a Dark Falz too" including both Luther and Omega. If the Dolls are just more psych-out Dark Falz entities and the only conflict is Us vs Falz yet again, we won't have even had a break from it this time!


@Ryoga said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

Mother could return if she manages to "reassemble herself" but I don't see here being an enemy if she does. On that note Phaleg could also return as she doesn't really seem to age.

Honestly, there's a ton of potential in non-Dark Falz sources of conflict the more I think about it. We do have several millennia-living characters including Risa, Ro'Kamiz, Xiao, Aurora, Al, Phaleg, Klariskrays I, Alma and Harriette (and arguably all Omega residents) that should survive the timeskip to New Genesis and would presumably be able to appear if Halpha is within travel distance of the Oracle fleet in that time. We also have the concluding sub-story dialogue on Episode 6 suggesting one or two new sources of conflict.


But yeah. We spent the entirety of PSO2 from the very beginning fighting either the Profound Darkness itself or things it ultimately corrupted, with perhaps the single exception of Deus Esca. In JP it's been that way for coming up 9 years! I'd really quite like it from a novelty standpoint if the Dolls weren't ultimately revealed to be yet more of that.

On that note I definitely don't want it to be revealed that Halpha is just Naverius because come on lol.

well Dark Falz do appear in all Phantasy Star games however Profound Darkness not always so it is possible that Profound Darkness won't come back or it can be that the existence of Profound Darkness was erased from the universe and now someone is trying to create a new one, still is too soon to say anything when we know nothing over the story.

In the sense that IDOLA Phantasy Star Saga is still based on a future far detached from Phantasy Star Online 2 (but still linked enough that it is the same world), Dark Falz returns in that game as a major plot point (my apologies for spoilers).

I would imagine that depending on where IDOLA takes place (I believed it was stated to be thousands of years after the events of Phantasy Star Online 2 but I was never too certain on the exact dates) and how there was another Dark Falz that the protagonist helps to fight in Phantasy Star Online 2es there may be hints to more Dark Falz that have yet to be destroyed or sealed despite the Profound Darkness or Primordial Darkness being defeated. At the same time, it would not surprise me if in New Genesis in lieu of fighting more of the Darkers (or their return) in relation to Dark Falz if we ended up having to clean up a mess the Photoners created instead such as what happened on Machia/Makia during the events of Phantasy Star Nova (which was also a sidestory involving an ARKS Ship that went missing and crash-landed on a planet that prohibited the use of photons due to Photoner violence in the past). Personally to me I am in the camp of believing that the dolls we fight are similar in nature to the enemies fought in Phantasy Star Nova meant to repel Photoners and invaders of that sort (such as the Gigantes).

I'm certain it'll be back, there has never been a Phantasy Star game without Dark Falz.

That said, I would be more concerned about NGS being restricted to a single planet 9as it seems to be thus far), as planet hopping is the other thing that has been in literally every Phantasy Star game.

Without these two things, it'll just be another MMORPG.

@BloodyKyona said in NGS Profound Darkness, Dark Falz, and Mother:

That said, I would be more concerned about NGS being restricted to a single planet 9as it seems to be thus far), as planet hopping is the other thing that has been in literally every Phantasy Star game.

PSO1 was on a single planet though. PSZ was also on a single planet, unless for some reason you want to count the moon as one.