[NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Don't make a thread with a complaint if you don't want the opposite side to be involved with their opinions.

I don't think he's trying to silence the opposite opinion so much as pointing out that you going "well it doesn't sound like you care about bug reporting or feedback" is just a derail attempt. There's nothing in the OP that hints at that, the only reason he probly doesn't mention it is that it's completely irrelevant to the thing the topic's actually about.

I imagine the vast majority of people who bother being active posters on this forum would be interested in playing the beta even if there was nothing that carried over from it.

Cringe begging.

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Don't make a thread with a complaint if you don't want the opposite side to be involved with their opinions.

You're not giving opinions. You're accusing me of not seeking to help the game. This topic itself is a suggestion topic seeking to help the game by trying to help reduce player upset.


@Akonyl said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

While I don't care about the earrings personally, I'm also not gonna say "well I don't want it so it's fine" since it could just as easily be something I did care about. [snip] The suggestion to give it to anyone who applies is a good one, though, as it removes the fact that there's items some people will have just because they got lucky in a lottery.

Exactly! Thank you. Fact of the matter is we don't know if the Global rewards will be the same. Accessories aren't a special NGS item type after all.

And yeah, I'm really liking that suggestion because it eliminates the entire possibility for players to be denied things. Thinking about it more, it could apply even if the Global CBT had other limitations like region and platform. Like, if it's PC only this time around players could get the reward for registering and saying which platforms they can play with, even if they end up selecting a platform not eligible to be invited.

That registry of interest would surely still be useful information for Sega and if they really want to do an incentive-reward system it could be used for this!

At this point I'm like half and half thinking your account is some sort of longcon joke, because it's hard for me to believe you actually wrote all this over something so inconsequential. Your post is absolutely infantile and you sound like an absolute crybaby.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

So here's the point in time today that I went from happy and relaxed to legitimately miserable in about 30 seconds

Really a few bucks in SG and an earring ruined your whole day?

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

disbelief and horror.

lol

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

It's 12 hours on and I'm still struggling to think. I went offline for most of the day and have just not wanted to do anything. I haven't even been able to finish watching Prologue 2.

You have other, probably deep rooted, issues if a participation reward (which a lot of different games do for their betas) completely messes you up mentally like this. You should get help, fedora.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

After all the damage and unhappiness the exclusionary closed and open betas and even six weeks post-launch with PSO2 itself last year it's all happening again and a word to accurately describe my thoughts right now does not exist.

If you were there, you were there and you got it, and if you weren't you didn't. That's life fedora, it's not a big deal. You can't have everything.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Most obviously, just don't do "special" rewards like was done with previous betas and like JP is doing right now. There's no need for them! Just like the PSO2 (then) NA betas last year, people want to play them because they want to play, not because of special content. This beta is going to reach whatever its capacity is, without any need for incentives. Literally the only thing accomplished by giving unnecessary bonuses to participants is depriving people who weren't allowed to play of them.

It doesn't matter that everyone wants to play NGS, they're still doing a service to sega for participating heavily and testing the game when and if they get into the beta. Giving a small hand out of SG and a shitty little trinket is no big deal.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

@Ryoga in the first reply made the brilliant suggestion of giving any "special" rewards to everyone who applies for closed beta participation rather than those who get invited. This makes a ton of sense! If anyone at Sega actually believes they're needed to encourage people to apply, then this would still satisfy that without depriving people of goodies (on top of beta access itself!) just because they weren't lucky enough. Provided everyone has a reasonable chance to apply (so if applications last at least a day and aren't prematurely closed once a quota is hit, which risks people missing out while they're asleep), doing this one alone would eliminate the need to do any of the others!

Literally everyone who plays the game is going to apply.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

If we absolutely must do special rewards, actually let other people get them after the beta. I note here that the Photon Halo set from (then) NA's closed beta has still never been redistributed on Global which 10 months on is frankly absurd, and its open beta still had exclusivity over several other campaign rewards (e.g. Cross Legs) and dozens of Mission Pass, Fresh Finds, AC (and even FUN) Scratch and SG Shop items most of which never came back and almost all of which was either impossibly expensive by PC release or not tradable at all.

It doesn't need to be redistributed, if you were there you were there and if you weren't you weren't. Again, that's life.

This desperation coming from you to get these items that you'll probably get anyways is absolutely infantile. I really wonder what the NA team thinks of you with your obnoxious replyguy comments on the global twitter and these inane posts on the forum over absolutely inconsequential things. I personally hope you don't get a beta invite just because of this thread.

@Laep said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

a few bucks in SG and an earring

I'm not going to engage with the insults, but to repeat a point made before: We don't know what rewards (if any) a Global NGS CBT will have.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Don't make a thread with a complaint if you don't want the opposite side to be involved with their opinions.

You're not giving opinions. You're accusing me of not seeking to help the game. This topic itself is a suggestion topic seeking to help the game by trying to help reduce player upset.


@Akonyl said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

While I don't care about the earrings personally, I'm also not gonna say "well I don't want it so it's fine" since it could just as easily be something I did care about. [snip] The suggestion to give it to anyone who applies is a good one, though, as it removes the fact that there's items some people will have just because they got lucky in a lottery.

Exactly! Thank you. Fact of the matter is we don't know if the Global rewards will be the same. Accessories aren't a special NGS item type after all.

And yeah, I'm really liking that suggestion because it eliminates the entire possibility for players to be denied things. Thinking about it more, it could apply even if the Global CBT had other limitations like region and platform. Like, if it's PC only this time around players could get the reward for registering and saying which platforms they can play with, even if they end up selecting a platform not eligible to be invited.

That registry of interest would surely still be useful information for Sega and if they really want to do an incentive-reward system it could be used for this!

I gave an opinion then you turned it into an "attack." Don't snip when you can't handle the snip back at you.

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Many of us want to help debugg the new game and provide feedback. Something you don't seem to have any interest in doing.

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

I gave an opinion then you turned it into an "attack."

Seriously, there is no need for this. You've registered that you think this is unimportant. Let's move on.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

I'm not going to engage with the insults, but to repeat a point made before: We don't know what rewards (if any) a Global NGS CBT will have.

It doesn't matter what rewards it has. If you're writing a big long thread about how unfair it is and how it completely mentally shut you down all day at even the notion of not being able to get what items there could be then there's a serious problem with you.

@Laep said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

I'm not going to engage with the insults, but to repeat a point made before: We don't know what rewards (if any) a Global NGS CBT will have.

It doesn't matter what rewards it has. If you're writing a big long thread about how unfair it is and how it completely mentally shut you down all day at even the notion of not being able to get what items there could be then there's a serious problem with you.

Rewards exist because people wouldn't help test otherwise. A carrot on a stick that's needed. If the complaints are against the cosmetics then the people are adopting the wrong idea about CBT.

Want it to stop? Convince people to start beta testing WITHOUT a reward as an incentive.

Oh no! I’ll register too, I’d really love to play and I’m upgrading my pc soon, it would be perfect timing. Here’s hoping. 😞

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Rewards exist because people wouldn't help test otherwise.

You're right.

This needs explanation: The rewards aren't just for being invited or logging in (at least, usually - on then-NA Photon Halo B just required login).

The JP rewards slide makes it clear that the rewards are for doing specific things during the beta period. Defeating a certain boss, raising Battle Power and so on. These are a means to direct players toward things that they're either looking for direct feedback on, or that require other activities they want feedback on (the Battle Power one encourages equipment and skill raising in a way that makes players think about what they're doing, which makes for better feedback). And obviously one of the rewards is just for filling in the survey.

Rewards generally aren't to get people to sign up for a beta, but to get the people they do invite to make it useful. To put it emotionlessly, the people that aren't invited to a closed beta in the first place are worthless to them - it doesn't matter if they are people who would have given the same feedback without asking for rewards in the first place. They've already been eliminated from being able to help. The only people that matter at that point are the people who were invited, and it's important they do the things that feedback is desired for or the whole endeavour is reduced to just being a more realistic stress test with a bunch of lazy players who treated it like a free demo.

It should be noted that Prologue 2 dedicated 11 minutes just to JP CBT 1 survey responses, starting here. I'd personally say it's beyond question that they're taking that data seriously not just from the amount of it they showed but also how some of it was already followed up with announcements of changes that'd be coming either for CBT 2 or later on. There's so much information there that I could spend hours analysing it (and let's be honest, at this point does anyone doubt that? 🤣 )

It's also worth considering why they're running a Global closed beta after two JP ones. Is it to make the Global community feel included? I think that's unlikely, especially if running an extra beta delays the eventual release. They could probably also accomplish that with an open beta. So is it to test things like Xbox porting or English translation stability (to prevent things like soft locks caused by missing text)? Again I find this doubtful, as an open beta could catch all of that in a way players would forgive since it'd still be in beta.

To me it seems most likely that Sega feel Global players might have differing preferences and might give different feedback, and that taking that into account would help make New Genesis a game that can appeal to, engage with and grip both its JP and Global player bases. If so, that'd be the best reason to run a Global closed beta. It would also mean that the Global closed beta will likely continue to seek the same kind of feedback that the JP betas have, and hence will still want to direct beta players' activities in the same way.

Now that a Global closed beta has been announced, I'm fine with that and if my reasoning is on point I think that'll be a good thing! I shouldn't need to point out that none of the items in this topic's list are "cancel the Global closed beta". Unless this is being seriously mismanaged it's going to serve a purpose I approve of - a sentiment I would hope is shared by anyone who wants a better New Genesis.

Which is a good opportunity to segue into...

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Convince people to start beta testing WITHOUT a reward as an incentive.

This actually explains item 4 already being on the list; those who have gone out of their way to write reward-free feedback and bug reports in the last 13 months are more likely to give similarly dedicated feedback in the future. They're people who have shown they want to help improve the game purely because they want the game to be better, rather than as a requirement to get an accessory. It's not about convincing new people to participate without a reward, but identifying the ones who already exist and grabbing them to get better quality feedback for everyone's overall benefit.

But this line of thought also has parallels with why paid-survey sites have articles on the matter (Edit: Brief note - I am absolutely not endorsing paid surveys! This link is as a reference only) when appealing to prospective customers by providing advice:

We all know that respondents who don’t have the right motivation to complete a survey can provide lower-quality data

many people also associate rewards with low-quality surveys, completed by serial responders who are solely focused on receiving the prize at the end

Do you really need to use incentives?"

Where I'm going with this is pretty straightforward; exclusive special rewards aren't the be-all and end-all. I wouldn't disagree that any rewards will help increase survey response rate from the randomly-selected portion of invited applicants, because I believe that and it'd be dishonest for me to do so.

But I do believe it's possible to provide rewards in a way that doesn't make those who weren't invited feel second-class (and in the process resurrecting unhappy memories from February-April 2020 for many) after New Genesis goes live.

Most obviously they could simply be AC, SG, a few free scratch pulls (although more difficult since tickets were retired) or the provision of buyable enhancements like extra inventory or storage expansions, Mission Pass Gold Tickets or Material Storage passes, crafting slots, extra collection folder sheets (if NGS does those) and so on. The sort of thing that players who weren't invited aren't either required to buy from those who were at a vast premium (basically a luck tax) or simply cannot get at all. But also the sort of thing which is still an undeniably compelling reward for participants to play for, you know?

The beauty of Ryoga's idea is that rewards could still be a mixture of missable (remembering this is largely a FOMO game) and great-but-still-obtainable rewards, the missable ones could go to all applicants (presuming nobody is barred from applying like last year) and the great-but-still-attainable ones could be the extras that invitees would absolutely still want to go for but which everyone else wouldn't be forced to miss out on forever and therefore couldn't be upset about missing (besides the temporary inability to play New Genesis itself!)


I guess in short I don't think it's mutually exclusive that participation rewards for invitees must be so super-exclusive-special that all non-invitees are by definition missing out. I'm convinced there's a lot of overlap that would allow invitees to be given great rewards for providing valuable beta feedback without permanently screwing over everyone else.

Catching up on reading!

They didn’t need incentives in the first place, people just want to play. The invites should hopefully go to players who will actually do their job and report bugs, give feedback, ect. The reward is helping your favorite game improve, making it a better experience at launch.

I’ve participated in a few closed betas in the past, some I got stuff for, others nothing. It really made no difference, the items were pretty boring trinkets usually.

Just wanted to say that I really hope they do make it so items are available to everyone. Exclusives are never fun. If they have to do this, then at least definitely release them later or still be able to be gotten through gameplay-- just not as an immediate gift.

Even as someone who got into the Xbox Betas, I would 100% support those items being released again.

@Milk said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Catching up on reading!

They didn’t need incentives in the first place, people just want to play. The invites should hopefully go to players who will actually do their job and report bugs, give feedback, ect. The reward is helping your favorite game improve, making it a better experience at launch.

I’ve participated in a few closed betas in the past, some I got stuff for, others nothing. It really made no difference, the items were pretty boring trinkets usually.

From what I recall in-game during the pso2 CBT for Global almost all players I ran into participated due to the rewards. Had it not been for those I doubt we would of had that many people test it.

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

almost all players I ran into participated due to the rewards

For clarification, "participating for the rewards" meant playing Urgent Quests. Including the extension it got, there were 11 UQs in this time (4 Cradle of Darkness, 4 Big Varder fights, 1 Falz Arm, 2 Elder).

It took one UQ win in 4 of those 11 windows to get all rewards; anyone who ran more than 4 UQ windows, or who played any of the UQs more than once within a window, was not just phoning it in for rewards but after something else like drops or the increased EXP which was likely because progress was retained (two people hit the level 75 cap) into OBT and the full launch.

Apparently there was a survey response (my favourite output from that was how many respondents claimed to play the pre-Online games), but there was never any need to fill in a survey and doing so gave no rewards and appears to have not affected the final game in any way. So it seems that was more of a community engagement activity.