[NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time

So here's the point in time today that I went from happy and relaxed to legitimately miserable in about 30 seconds of disbelief and horror. It's 12 hours on and I'm still struggling to think. I went offline for most of the day and have just not wanted to do anything. I haven't even been able to finish watching Prologue 2. I've tried four times now and walked away every time.

You all know why. You all knew I'd complain. After all the damage and unhappiness the exclusionary closed and open betas and even six weeks post-launch with PSO2 itself last year it's all happening again and a word to accurately describe my thoughts right now does not exist.

Maybe everyone will be allowed to sign up this time? Even if that was the case, it's still unfair. As long as it's a genuine closed beta, some of us are going to sign up and not get an invite. And if the "rewards" for the arduous task of getting lucky are anything like they are on JP NGS right now, or (then) NA PSO2 last year, everyone who isn't invited (or even allowed to apply) is being screwed. Unnecessarily. Just like before.


So, what can we request to make this less unfair? This is just a quick list because I haven't spent the last 12 hours thinking about it:

  1. Most obviously, just don't do "special" rewards like was done with previous betas and like JP is doing right now. There's no need to make them so unique! Just like the PSO2 (then) NA betas last year, people want to play them because they want to play, not because of special content. This beta is going to reach whatever its capacity is, without any need for incentives, and they can be incentivised to follow directed testing and fill in surveys with rewards that are valuable without being irreplaceable. Literally the only thing accomplished by giving unique items to participants is depriving people who weren't allowed to play of them.

  2. @Ryoga in the first reply made the brilliant suggestion of giving any "special" rewards to everyone who applies for closed beta participation rather than those who get invited. This makes a ton of sense! If anyone at Sega actually believes they're needed to encourage people to apply, then this would still satisfy that without depriving people of goodies (on top of beta access itself!) just because they weren't lucky enough. Provided everyone has a reasonable chance to apply (so if applications last at least a day and aren't prematurely closed once a quota is hit, which risks people missing out while they're asleep), doing this one alone would eliminate the need to do any of the others!

  3. If we absolutely must do special rewards, actually let other people get them after the beta. @Kuon in post #51 suggests using a subsequent OBT as a prime opportunity to do this. It's worth noting the Photon Halo set from (then) NA's CBT has still never been redistributed on Global 10 months on, and NA's platform-barring OBT still had exclusivity over several other campaign rewards (e.g. Cross Legs) which never came back. It'd be nice if New Genesis was a new start and took the opportunity to be free of this sort of thing.

  4. Since the purpose of a beta test is feedback, guarantee an invite to anyone who has filed bug reports and feedback via the official support system on Global prior to the broadcast of Prologue 2. The purpose of a beta (closed or open) is to discover what needs changing and feedback is a core part of that. Players that will report bugs or fill in a survey are infinitely more valuable than those who will not and just want an early-access free demo without any intention to help improve the game. This doesn't prevent "special" content restriction; it's a feedback improvement suggestion.

  5. Consider giving invite priority to ARKS whose first PSO2 character was created on or shortly after 27 May 2020. I detest unfairness of any kind and if I was in charge of running betas I wouldn't have discriminated by platform last year, or at the very least would have redistributed the (then) NA beta rewards on 27 May 2020 as an apology to everyone who was mistreated last year. But if we really must screw people over a second time around, the very least we could do is include a measure to protect people from being the ones who got screwed over both times, you know? Again this doesn't solve the underlying issue and one of the above would be preferable.

List subject to change and addition because I'm sure more ideas will come to mind both on their own and as a result of discussion.

If there are special rewards then they should go to everyone who applied. Getting to play the actual thing and having your feedback heard should be "special treatment" enough for those who end up getting chosen.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Consider giving invite priority to ARKS whose first PSO2 character was created on or shortly after 27 May 2020. I detest unfairness of any kind

Well that sounds unfair to me, there were many people who had to wait for the official "global" release before they could play PSO2 (which also means that they were missing out on several MPs) so why should those who could at least play the game (or anyone else for that matter) get priority treatment here?

@Ryoga said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

If there are special rewards then they should go to everyone who applied.

Dude! That's perfect! I'm adding that near the top of the list right away. Seriously, fantastic idea.


@Ryoga said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Well that sounds unfair to me, there were many people who had to wait before the official "global" release

It is unfair but as I said I can't do anything about the decision to exclude people in the first place. All I can do is to try to reduce the chance that the ones who get excluded this time around were people who were also treated as second-class last time around.

Everyone had trouble with the Microsoft Store launch, but I do believe it was possible to use it no matter where you were. I was helping out with this at the time since the game was listed only when you had the right region set for a couple months. I'm not saying it wasn't too much trouble for some, but a lot of us went to the trouble in May and that proves we'd have absolutely played in the betas that NONE of us were allowed to. So this would easily be an effective measure to dramatically mitigate double-screw-over.

it’s not that big of a deal

Closed because normally do this. Plus it's purely cosmetics. It's how they give incentive for people to sign up for the beta.

It really isn't a big deal. Life moves on probably hardly anyone will use the cosmetics just like with Global VBT on pso2.

@VerdantLemur741 said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

it’s not that big of a deal

@Zeke said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

It really isn't a big deal.

Then I presume you don't plan to apply?


@Zeke said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Closed because normally do this. Plus it's purely cosmetics. It's how they give incentive for people to sign up for the beta.

Tradition is a terrible excuse to be unfair. "Fashion is the endgame" has been this game's mantra for years. No incentive is necessary because the quota WILL be filled.

This is not a topic to argue and there is no argument to be had. There is NO point in telling the forum you don't care. Some of us DO care and it's unreasonable to tell us not to.

@Miraglyth said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

@VerdantLemur741 said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

it’s not that big of a deal

@Zeke said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

It really isn't a big deal.

Then I presume you don't plan to apply?


@Zeke said in [NGS CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Closed because normally do this. Plus it's purely cosmetics. It's how they give incentive for people to sign up for the beta.

Tradition is a terrible excuse to be unfair. "Fashion is the endgame" has been this game's mantra for years. No incentive is necessary because the quota WILL be filled.

This is not a topic to argue and there is no argument to be had. There is NO point in telling the forum you don't care. Some of us DO care and it's unreasonable to tell us not to.

You can say what you want, but it doesn't change that fact. As for applying I do plan on doing so. That said I don't plan on throwing a hissy fit if I don't get invited.

End if the day either deal with it and see if they re-release some of them like they did with pso2 cbt or move on from the game. It's unlikely they'll change their stance over something extremely minor.

Important to some doesn't make it important to most. Many of us want to help debugg the new game and provide feedback. Something you don't seem to have any interest in doing.

Are people in the JP CBT actually getting unique rewards/scratches/whatever? Last I heard, the scratching being done/seen in CBT vids was being done with play money due to it not actually tarnsferring over to live service accounts.

@Akonyl said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Are people in the JP CBT actually getting unique rewards/scratches/whatever? Last I heard, the scratching being done/seen in CBT vids was being done with play money due to it not actually tarnsferring over to live service accounts.

Yes unlike with cbt pso2 the character progression will not transfer over.

@Akonyl Players that complete certain objectives in the JP CBT (like defeating a specific boss) receive an earring, a stamp, and star gems for the official release.

Earring and stamp being rewarded: alt text alt text

I agree with #1 #2 #3 and #4 but #5 is something I dislike even if I started playing PSO2NA since PC launch (btw pls add other people's suggestions after yours so there's no need to edit posts to fix the number order).

Also, have they ever rereleased stuff from beta PSO2NA? Maybe there was 1 thing or another from mission pass but I'm not sure.

@OmegaNeo8603 said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

I agree with #1 #2 #3 and #4 but #5 is something I dislike even if I started playing PSO2NA since launch (btw pls add other people's suggestions after yours so there's no need to edit posts to fix the number order).

Also, have they ever rereleased stuff from beta PSO2NA? Maybe there was 1 thing or another from mission pass but I'm not sure.

Dreamcast mag and Coated Edge sword camp were re-released. The Phton rings were not.

@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

You can say what you want, but it doesn't change that fact. [snip] I don't plan on throwing a hissy fit if I don't get invited.

The fact it's it'd be unfair and in an unnecessary way. This is 100% indisputable. If you don't care, please don't try to derail the topic for those of us who do and definitely please don't be inflammatory.


@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Many of us want to help debugg the new game and provide feedback. Something you don't seem to have any interest in doing.

Correction 1: I have investigated, filed support tickets and publicly shared the details of several bug reports and feedback items throughout all ten months since the end of May, from softlocks to failed campaign distributions.

Correction 2: I suggest actually reading item 4 on the list since I already suggested invite priority to those who will help.

Again: This attack is wrong and pointless. Kindly stop.


@Akonyl said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Are people in the JP CBT actually getting unique rewards/scratches/whatever?

Yes. Prologue 2 repeated the rewards from the first CBT so players who got into both uniquely get to account-bind the accessory, and also added new rewards. 47:04 if the link doesn't take you to that time.

eb500643-17b2-4ae5-b397-67c8e57d651f-image.png

The PSO2 (then) NA beta rewards were very different to the JP rewards (for instance, the Photon Halo set were originally AC scratch items from the second "Winner's Design" series some of which Global adapted into three sets called Designer Dreams).

Since the Global beta is going to be happening later on, they may choose different rewards for it, or not have any. It'd be silly to say we shouldn't try to "change their stance" on this when they likely don't have a stance yet.


@Zeke said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Yes unlike with cbt pso2 the character progression will not transfer over.

On JP, players' accounts will be marked as having participated in the betas and rewards will be distributed on the live accounts after New Genesis releases. Closed beta progress will not be retained but these rewards will be permanent.


@OmegaNeo8603 said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

I agree with #1 #2 #3 and #4 but #5 is something I dislike

Understandable. At it's heart it's an unfair idea. But doing this limited-reward thing to players twice means some people are going to miss out twice no matter what and I think it's worth considering measures to reduce people being screwed over twice. I guess it's kind of like when a raffle asks winners of the previous raffle not to try again so there can be more winners overall.

Thanks for the general agreement!


@OmegaNeo8603 said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

(btw pls add other people's suggestions after yours so there's no need to edit posts to fix the number order).

I mean I'd be editing the suggestions list either way. I just wanted to give Ryoga's idea higher billing because it's a seriously good idea that I felt deserved to be given a bit of respect. 😛 But sure I'll make future additions as 6 onwards, not least because I've mentioned item 4 earlier in this reply and it would break that reference to change it afterwards.


@OmegaNeo8603 said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

Also, have they ever rereleased stuff from beta PSO2NA?

I could give you a full breakdown of individual items from campaigns, mission passes, fresh finds content, scratch tickets and defunct SG shop sales which have and have not reappeared since PC release. It's something I've been working on since giving GMs an infographic around when the PC release was announced. Note that infographic has a few mistakes I'm aware of.

But the short version is: 2/5 CBT and 7/11 OBT (4 of which likely by mistake) items have re-released. Most Fresh Finds items have not returned but many have had colour variants released. An ugly mixture of both AC scratch and Mission Pass items have been re-released. Of the SG Shop items only the Phantasy Star Universe items (excepting the Tylor Replica outfits and accessories) reappeared in Fresh Finds.

Don't make a thread with a complaint if you don't want the opposite side to be involved with their opinions.

@Ezodagrom said in [NGS Global CBT] Suggestions to be less unfair this time:

@Akonyl Players that complete certain objectives in the JP CBT (like defeating a specific boss) receive an earring, a stamp, and star gems for the official release.

Earring and stamp being rewarded:

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, in that case that's a bit lame. While I don't care about the earrings personally, I'm also not gonna say "well I don't want it so it's fine" since it could just as easily be something I did care about. The SG also kinda sucks, but since it's probably not much and SG isn't really "unique", it doesn't suck as much as the unobtainable cosmetics. The suggestion to give it to anyone who applies is a good one, though, as it removes the fact that there's items some people will have just because they got lucky in a lottery.