Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?

They've added a couple of features to the disabled features list of JP server.

The first is the registration of Ensembles from Bookmark feature, the second is the Looks(Ensembles) feature within the main menu. The first one will be a negligible one, but the second one seals off the remaining way to use Ensembles.

http://pso2.jp/players/news/27526/

From their latest announcement, they are planning to end the maintenance on the JP server at 8 pm (JST), which is pretty soon.

@Fiona-Respha said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

They've added a couple of features to the disabled features list of JP server.

Thanks for the link. It looks as though these are temporary suspensions of the features and that they should be returning, right?

@Miraglyth Yeah, they're temporarily disabled because of bugs (most likely related to the new character models) and will be re-enabled once the bugs are fixed.

@Miraglyth Yes, as @Ezodagrom has answered. I hope they'd fix at least the character data load/save feature, but probably that's the heart of the problem and the hardest part to fix.

Also, they've also disabled the mission pass details screen, as they found a bug with it during the maintenance. They haven't commented if this was related to the character creation issue.

Could be since Mission Pass has previews and such now.

Thanks both! Good to have that detail too.

@Ryoga I'm not gonna argue on what form of progression is best... but the very system you have been complaining about has been a part of the franchise for much longer than you might think.

First off... indeed, PSO1 took the Offline / Online approach and is by all accounts an Action Online RPG. That said, not until PSO Blue Burst could the game receive updates, so any real updates came in the form of either new releases (version 1 to version 2 on Dreamcast) or entire new platforms (if you could take your save data from Dreamcast to Gamecube... you'd find a lot of the Dreamcast gear surpassed by the gear introduced in the Gamecube version). And then the release of Blue Burst, which also added the ability to patch the game, then saw entire new weapons added via patches.... Phantasy Star Universe was also skipped in your argument, which to my knowledge did in fact add entire new weapons over time which surpassed the older ones...

That said, assuming what was said is true... focusing on the franchise's roots while ignoring the direction the franchise went is not gonna do any good. While indeed PSO1 started out as an Online RPG, its been clear since the release of the PC version (Blue Burst) that Sega's become more interested in making the franchise be more online orientated and follow in the footsteps of the MMO genre while still maintaining PSO1's overall structure; what with the game getting frequent updates, storing characters server-side, the PC version specifically adding a 'guild' (Team) system, the direction Sega took with Phantasy Star Universe and so on.... PSO2 is the ultimate culmination of all these elements and while still choosing to market the game as an Action RPG... the design elements Sega has borrowed is by all accounts the kind of things you'll find in an MMO... complete with the vertical progression where as newer content releases, older content is made obsolete.

The only reason PSO1 feels like its got horizontal progression is cause the only true way to update the game... was to get it on whatever new platform Sega chooses to release it on and private servers for Blue Burst just have all the content available from the getgo as opposed to released gradually as it was back in the day.

@YagyuChan said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Attempt #2 at removing the dependence on the launcher updating the game (Steam Version btw might be happening with the Microsoft Store too but cannot verify this):

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Prepare for a potentially long maintenance

Lets hope this one goes quite well... can anyone who (still) has the Windows 10 version or has the game on the Epic Game Store confirm if this is a Steam-only thing or if Sega decided to roll it out on all available platforms?

This does beg the question how the standalone NGS installation option which was available during the Beta will work now that the launcher isn't handling updates...

@Leonkh99 said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

the very system you have been complaining about has been a part of the franchise for much longer than you might think.

Except I never "complained that it is part of the franchise" but criticized how its used. "but other games overuse it too" is not a valid argument for anything. If one wants to defend their excessive usage of vertical progression then one has to show how its positives outweigh the negatives and the only one who even brought up some actual benefits of using vertical progression was me.

@Leonkh99 said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

The only reason PSO1 feels like its got horizontal progression is cause the only true way to update the game... was to get it on whatever new platform Sega chooses to release it on

Not really, while PSO was not purely horizontal it still became (for the most part) more and more horizontal the further you progressed and like I said many EP1 weapons (even some of those from lower difficulties) were still relevant at endgame. The stat gain thouh leveling up also diminished the higher your level was to the point where it was (even if we ignore diminishing returns) almost neglectable.

The main issue with PSU and PSO2 is they continually make the newest content more rewarding than existing content to the point of obsoleting the existing content (items in new rarities, better drop rates and so on), then at best give the old content a one-time shot of UH difficulty that brings limited resurrection.

PSO(1) didn't do this primarily because it didn't increase the highest rarity, didn't add a bunch of unusual game modes and - helpfully - never lasted that long. Blue Burst for instance was released in mid-2005 and shut down in early 2008 and those almost 3 years were plagued with the entire game being abandoned without any updates for most of that. One of the other versions (I want to say Xbox?) was stuck in the christmas lobby for years.

Vertical progression to a degree makes perfect sense. You can't have the fancy BIS endgame sword dropping during the tutorial! It'd give players nothing to play for and make the sense of progression that is a part of these games quite unsatisfying. We shouldn't be suggesting that Sega keeps the equipment to 12★ as the highest for close to a decade. Expansion of difficulty and equipment is fine.

The trouble is when they have Exploration, ARKS, Urgent, Advance, Challenge, Extreme, Battle, Ultimate, Ridroid, Buster, Endless, Risk, Divide, Partridge and Pear Tree quests and only one or two of them are worth doing at all because the rest got immediately obsoleted by their arrival. It's possible to add a new quest type and scale up the existing ones so they're not immediately rendered worthless. Sega just don't try to do that and after Universe and pre-NGS PSO2 it'd be real nice if they started.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

You can't have the fancy BIS endgame sword dropping during the tutorial! It'd give players nothing to play for and make the sense of progression that is a part of these games quite unsatisfying.

No one is suggesting to give players "endgame gear" during the tutorial. Also, no one is suggesting to not have a progression system either.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

We shouldn't be suggesting that Sega keeps the equipment to 12★ as the highest for close to a decade.

If you're talking about rarity then sure, let them implement super rare >12 star items if they feel like the 12 star stuff it too easy to come by but there is no point in power creeping the gear outside of the tutorial phase so setting an upper limit and sticking to it is fine even if it's "for close to a decade" or till the end of the games life cycle.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Expansion of difficulty and equipment is fine.

Except (with the exception of some few bosses) the general difficulty has actually declined for the most part. I'd argue that from a gameplay perspective the overall most "difficult" enemies are some of the corrupted enemies and some of the ESCA darkers, vertical progression however destroyed the threat they presented due to them power creeping the amount of damage the players are able to put out / take. Everything else is generally just stat walls designed to present the "illusion of a difficulty increase".

Also, no one is against expanding the equipment choices either but that's another issue with vertical progression: it doesn't expand your gear options, it just replaces your current ones which at worst can dull things down.

This argument is ridiculous. Since the start of RPGs, vertical progression has been a feature in almost all of them. Starting with Dungeons and Dragons where a Holy Avenger certainly outclasses a Longsword +1 by every measure. In Final Fantasy, when you went to a new segment, all your old gear was pretty trash. In fact, until the mid-90s, most RPGs had this. Dragon Quest, Faxanadu, Wizardry... In Crystalis, new enemies would literally be invincible to your old weapons, and you needed a certain level to touch bosses. Pool of Radiance, Destiny of an Emperor... Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Lufia, Soul Blazer, they ALL had it. In fact, the only three RPGs from the 80s I can think of that had horizontal progression are Star Tropics, Ultima, and Zelda 2. It's a core feature of almost every RPG. It's how these games show progression. You don't want to enter endgame with your basic crap, after all. It's about feeling like you've actually moved up in the world, something that is extremely difficult to accomplish with horizontal progression (I think only Zelda and Ultima really did it right, and Ultima only through 7 as 8 and 9 were terrible).

@Ryoga Actually, Dark Falz Apprentice Hardcore Story Mode battle is almost as hard to S rank at Level 100 as it is to S rank at Level 75. Phaleg is no easier, Solo PD is no easier, and Shiva's cohort are no easier. Hell, I still get rotten MPAs for Final Lament, which people should be embarrassed about since it's Level 95 content NOT Level 100 content. Global just proves that global players are nowhere near as skilled as players in JP.

Your first post seems to be rather disconnected from the arguments I actually made so not much to say here. Regarding your second post:

@BloodyKyona said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

... Dark Falz Apprentice Hardcore Story Mode ... Phaleg ... Solo PD ... Shiva ...

As I said:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

with the exception of some few bosses

@BloodyKyona said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

I still get rotten MPAs for Final Lament, which people should be embarrassed about since it's Level 95 content NOT Level 100 content

And now emagine how these MPAs would have wend if they replaced:

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and

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@BloodyKyona said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga Actually, Dark Falz Apprentice Hardcore Story Mode battle is almost as hard to S rank at Level 100 as it is to S rank at Level 75. Phaleg is no easier, Solo PD is no easier, and Shiva's cohort are no easier. Hell, I still get rotten MPAs for Final Lament, which people should be embarrassed about since it's Level 95 content NOT Level 100 content. Global just proves that global players are nowhere near as skilled as players in JP.

You're quite the child on these forums aren't you? Always insulting someone.

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

And yet even some of the gear you could find at level 30-40 where still viable choices at endgame and none of the levels became obsolete due to power creep.

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

No one is suggesting to give players "endgame gear" during the tutorial. Also, no one is suggesting to not have a progression system either.

So getting endgame gear at level 30 (when the level cap is 200) is good, but getting endgame gear during the tutorial is bad? I've got to be honest here, this is coming across as quite inconsistent. Requiring players to be high level to be able to try for endgame gear is a progression system.

The other subject you touch on - farming in all areas being viable - is a definite product of its age, especially on the Dreamcast versions. Sure every area had some unique drops, but the drop rates were frankly insane and usually only possible with a portion of the section IDs. It also helped that there were only four areas and two play modes (essentially exploration and Hunter's Guild missions) so there wasn't that much to divide desirable content between.

Also that Sega didn't need to keep players entertained, especially on v1 where 100% of the money came from the initial purchase and there were next to no competitors in the market. A modern live-service online action RPG (in a period where we have dozens of modern live-service online action RPGs to choose from) just doesn't get away with that.


@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

(with the exception of some few bosses) the general difficulty has actually declined for the most part. I'd argue that from a gameplay perspective the overall most "difficult" enemies are some of the corrupted enemies and some of the ESCA darkers, vertical progression however destroyed the threat they presented due to them power creeping the amount of damage the players are able to put out / take. Everything else is generally just stat walls designed to present the "illusion of a difficulty increase".

You're mixing level gains with difficulty here. Of course level 75 Episode 4 enemies are less of a threat two episodes later and with players now at level 100 with scion main or sub classes. Like for like there's little argument that difficulty has scaled up over time. For a very brief time during the beta MPAs were timing out on Luther SH but that was when most players were still level 50 with a cap of 75. Since then we've never had anything like the prevalent and enduring complaints of bad MPAs as we have with the most recent UQs.

The only way for levels not to affect difficulty would be for legacy content to be scaled up in difficulty (taking Super Hard from level 75 to level 90 for instance), for new difficulties to be added that are a suitable challenge for the higher level cap (Ultra Hard hasn't made it to several fields still) or for levels to be done away with entirely. And honestly if you want the last of those go play a beat-em-up, because that's not what JRPGs are about.


@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Expansion of difficulty and equipment is fine.

Also, no one is against expanding the equipment choices either but that's another issue with vertical progression: it doesn't expand your gear options, it just replaces your current ones which at worst can dull things down.

"Expanding equipment choices doesn't expand your gear options"... what? It feels like you're either misinterpreting what I'd said or talking about something I wasn't.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

So getting endgame gear at level 30 (when the level cap is 200) is good, but getting endgame gear during the tutorial is bad? I've got to be honest here, this is coming across as quite inconsistent.

Getting endgame viable and actual endgame gear is still different. None of the stuff you could get at that level range was actually BIS. Also, there is no inconsistency here as I never asked for endgame gear to drop during the tutorial phase. Me pointing out that PSO dropped endgame viable gear early on doesn't change that especially since I also said: "I never said that PSO was the "pinnacle of horizontal gear progression" (or even that there shouldn't be vertical progression at all". The level cap being 200 is also meaningless as a good chunk of them are just there for optics. There is ofc. nothing wrong with expecting people to be at a certain level for your endgame content as, like I said, it prevents new players from being overwhelmed but there is generally no point in pushing things any further once the players reach the point where you would expect them to have the mastery of the game you want them to have.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

The other subject you touch on - farming in all areas being viable - is a definite product of its age

Not really, there are several modern RPGs that follow this idea and that some items had insane drop rates and the issues with the section ID system are different topics altogether.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

You're mixing level gains with difficulty here.

Not really, you were just pointing out that you could mitigate some of the power creep by upscaling the enemies in question but after a certain point level increases stopped leading to content being more difficult. There is nothing about the current endgame that makes it more difficult than e.g. the corrupted mines on their initial jp release. Replaceing "the player doing 1000 damage vs. an enemy with 10000 HP" with "the player doing 10000 damage vs. an enemy with 100000 HP" does not make for more difficult content.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

"Expanding equipment choices doesn't expand your gear options"... what? It feels like you're either misinterpreting what I'd said or talking about something I wasn't.

You were talking about it in context of vertical progression, which is also something you just doubled down on.