Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?

@BloodyKyona said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Let's just be honest: the development and release of Global has been botched on a great many levels. They went an entire month without a content update after Armada came in, they've released the end of the story long before the final UQ when they should have dropped at the same time like in JP, and it seems to be problem after problem from the shop to Fresh Finds to player trading. It's a mess. Given there is usually a seasonal quest starting mid March or so typically, does this mean Primordial Darkness and the new seasonal are gonna come at the same time? Or is the seasonal being pushed back?

I mean geez, everything has been a mess. In JP, Primordial Darkness dropped at Level 95, and prior to Luster's release; this means, without re-balancing, Global is going to crush Primordial Darkness from the start due to technically being overgeared for what is a relatively easy fight compared to Final Lament. Guides of Creation was also a normal UQ rather than just a trigger (and properly named, unlike Global which butchered the name of the quest... Mother Creator doesn't even make sense since it's a double boss). Good grief, how could they have messed up so badly?

The moment they released Nemesis/Slave in episode 3 should tell you how they handle progression. They have been all over the place with it.

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

The moment they released Nemesis/Slave in episode 3 should tell you how they handle progression.

Progression was doomed from the start since they decided to take an overly vertical approach to content / gear progression leading to a situation where (ignoring cosmetics) out of ≈9 years of development time only a fraction of it ended up being relevant. PSO didn't have this issue however NGS most likely will as we can already see signs of them running into the same direction.

Most of your 15s will heve the same Potentials and power in NGS... around ~230 power at +35/+40, save Atlus EX, and Cras/Klaus, and Still. So Sega has it planned out for this to prevent too much issues in NGS and gear.

Completely meaningless, this is nothing more than a pat on the head for those who played the base game. NGS is going to take the same vertical approach to gear / content progression meaning that they get power creeped into irrelevancy soon enough.

Yet I can take it easy for a while and gather resources for eventual gear that will phase it all out, instead of being crowded at an item lab with everyone else that didn't bring gear over. I'm going to approach NGS intelligently.

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Completely meaningless, this is nothing more than a pat on the head for those who played the base game. NGS is going to take the same vertical approach to gear / content progression meaning that they get power creeped into irrelevancy soon enough.

Welcome to progression style MMO's? Only MMO that allows old gear to still be relevant is ESO. If you don't like that then I think you're playing the wrong genre.

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Completely meaningless, this is nothing more than a pat on the head for those who played the base game. NGS is going to take the same vertical approach to gear / content progression meaning that they get power creeped into irrelevancy soon enough.

Welcome to progression style MMO's? Only MMO that allows old gear to still be relevant is ESO. If you don't like that then I think you're playing the wrong genre.

What are you talking about? PSO2 is not an MMORPG, it's an MOARPG just like PSO was. Also, what you said makes no sense whatsoever. Vertical progression systems are not a prerequisite for MMORPGs (or any RPG that's not overly story driven outside of the "tutorial phase"). Just because other games "do a bad job too" doesn't mean that this is somehow beyond criticism, especially since already got it right the first time they tried with PSO1.

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Completely meaningless, this is nothing more than a pat on the head for those who played the base game. NGS is going to take the same vertical approach to gear / content progression meaning that they get power creeped into irrelevancy soon enough.

Welcome to progression style MMO's? Only MMO that allows old gear to still be relevant is ESO. If you don't like that then I think you're playing the wrong genre.

What are you talking about? PSO2 is not an MMORPG, it's an MOARPG just like PSO was. Also, what you said makes no sense whatsoever. Vertical progression systems are not a prerequisite for MMORPGs (or any RPG that's not overly story driven outside of the "tutorial phase"). Just because other games "do a bad job too" doesn't mean that this is somehow beyond criticism, especially since already got it right the first time they tried with PSO1.

I'm just saying about every MMO has a progression system that makes old gear obsolete. This style has been around before MMO's we're a thing with RPG's in general. You're attacking from an angle that doesn't make sense since this system works well. Game evolves and everyone gets stronger from it be it levels or gear.

I'll reiterate what I said. Welcome to MMO's? If it truly bugs you then you really are playing the wrong genre. ESO has exactly what you're looking for if you want old gear to stay relevant.

Edit: And PSO2 is an MMO. That stands for Massive Multi-player Online and since PSO2 requires you to be online at all time to play it the game falls under that category. PSO didn't require online to play so that one ISN'T an MMO.

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

already got it right the first time they tried with PSO1.

Leaving aside that Online only lasted as long as it did because most of that time was spent platform-hopping with no save compatibility and very few players followed as it went, even the original edition on the Dreamcast had so-called vertical progression since Ver.2 added better endgame equipment and raised the level cap from 100 to 200.

Vertical progression is the standard because it works and works well. Pretty much every rpg does it. Even table top rpgs do it. It's a system that is tried and true. It's never going away. If you don't like it then play game genres that don't rely on it.

Attempt #2 at removing the dependence on the launcher updating the game (Steam Version btw might be happening with the Microsoft Store too but cannot verify this):

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Prepare for a potentially long maintenance

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Completely meaningless, this is nothing more than a pat on the head for those who played the base game. NGS is going to take the same vertical approach to gear / content progression meaning that they get power creeped into irrelevancy soon enough.

Welcome to progression style MMO's? Only MMO that allows old gear to still be relevant is ESO. If you don't like that then I think you're playing the wrong genre.

What are you talking about? PSO2 is not an MMORPG, it's an MOARPG just like PSO was. Also, what you said makes no sense whatsoever. Vertical progression systems are not a prerequisite for MMORPGs (or any RPG that's not overly story driven outside of the "tutorial phase"). Just because other games "do a bad job too" doesn't mean that this is somehow beyond criticism, especially since already got it right the first time they tried with PSO1.

I'm just saying about every MMO has a progression system that makes old gear obsolete. This style has been around before MMO's we're a thing with RPG's in general.

I already covert that part. Vertical progression works for story driven single player RPGs because they don't really care all that much about "replayability". Your point of "you really are playing the wrong genre" is also self defeating as you even acknowledge that RPGs don't need to rely on a vertical progression system. Furthermore you have yet to actually make any real arguments, your defence for PSO2s self defeating progression system boils down to "but other games" and you're nonsensical "play something else" blatantly ignores several other factors.

It's not that I'm in the "wrong genre" you just act as if vertical progression systems are the be all and end all for RPGs when that's clearly not the case.

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

PSO didn't require online to play

PSO went "online only" with EP4.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

already got it right the first time they tried with PSO1.

Leaving aside that Online only lasted as long as it did because most of that time was spent platform-hopping with no save compatibility and very few players followed as it went, even the original edition on the Dreamcast had so-called vertical progression since Ver.2 added better endgame equipment and raised the level cap from 100 to 200.

And yet even some of the gear you could find at level 30-40 where still viable choices at endgame and none of the levels became obsolete due to power creep. Also I never said that PSO was the "pinnacle of horizontal gear progression" (or even that there shouldn't be vertical progression at all, as I said it still makes sense to have it in the "tutorial phase" of the game) but they went into the right direction with the general approach to progression.

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Completely meaningless, this is nothing more than a pat on the head for those who played the base game. NGS is going to take the same vertical approach to gear / content progression meaning that they get power creeped into irrelevancy soon enough.

Welcome to progression style MMO's? Only MMO that allows old gear to still be relevant is ESO. If you don't like that then I think you're playing the wrong genre.

What are you talking about? PSO2 is not an MMORPG, it's an MOARPG just like PSO was. Also, what you said makes no sense whatsoever. Vertical progression systems are not a prerequisite for MMORPGs (or any RPG that's not overly story driven outside of the "tutorial phase"). Just because other games "do a bad job too" doesn't mean that this is somehow beyond criticism, especially since already got it right the first time they tried with PSO1.

I'm just saying about every MMO has a progression system that makes old gear obsolete. This style has been around before MMO's we're a thing with RPG's in general.

I already covert that part. Vertical progression works for story driven single player RPGs because they don't really care all that much about "replayability". Your point of "you really are playing the wrong genre" is also self defeating as you even acknowledge that RPGs don't need to rely on a vertical progression system. Furthermore you have yet to actually make any real arguments, your defence for PSO2s self defeating progression system boils down to "but other games" and you're nonsensical "play something else" blatantly ignores several other factors.

It's not that I'm in the "wrong genre" you just act as if vertical progression systems are the be all and end all for RPGs when that's clearly not the case.

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

PSO didn't require online to play so that one ISN'T an MMO.

PSO went "online only" with EP4.

@Miraglyth said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

@Ryoga said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

already got it right the first time they tried with PSO1.

Leaving aside that Online only lasted as long as it did because most of that time was spent platform-hopping with no save compatibility and very few players followed as it went, even the original edition on the Dreamcast had so-called vertical progression since Ver.2 added better endgame equipment and raised the level cap from 100 to 200.

And yet even some of the gear you could find at level 30-40 where still viable choices at endgame and none of the levels become obsolete due to power creep. Also I never said that PSO was the "pinnacle of horizontal gear progression" (or even that there shouldn't be vertical progression at all, as I said it still makes sense to have it in the "tutoria phase" of the game) but they went into the right direction with the general approach to progression.

Doesn't need and doesn't work are two different things. Your argument from what I understand is that it doesn't work when that just isn't true. It's a system that's proven to be better than pretty much anything else. Even games outside of rpg's use it just from its perfection. Something you can't really build on.

MMO games typically use this progression system. What I said about you not liking this genre stands true since this genre almost exclusively uses the vertical progression system. Like literally almost every MMO.

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Your argument from what I understand is that it doesn't work when that just isn't true.

I never said that it "doesn't work", story driven single player games have no reason not to use it especially since it underlies the development the character makes along his journey and you still want your progression during the tutorial phase to be mostly vertical to prevent new players from being overwhelmed. The rest however is a different story. Ofc. the people in charge have an interest in using one (especially if the upgrade system is heavily connected to the cash shop of the game in question) as it allows them to be lazy in regards to their item designs but the game is paying the price by losing out on build and content diversity. It's also high maintenance as it requires regular content updates "to work" otherwise you get players complaining about how there is no content in games that actually would have more than enough content if >90% of it wasn't "dead".

@Zeke said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

What I said about you not liking this genre stands true since this genre almost exclusively uses the vertical progression system.

Not really, the claim is just as false as the first time you made it. A RPG without a vertical progression system is still a RPG meaning that, as I said before, a vertical progression system is not integral to the genre. That alone shows that your claim doesn't have any merit. It's pretty much the equivalence of someone arguing that "a game can't be a RPG if the setting isn't "medieval fantasy"" just because of how commonly used the setting is.

@BloodyKyona said in Can we have more transparency in global pertaining what is next in updates or a road map at least?:

Let's just be honest: the development and release of Global has been botched on a great many levels. They went an entire month without a content update after Armada came in, they've released the end of the story long before the final UQ when they should have dropped at the same time like in JP, and it seems to be problem after problem from the shop to Fresh Finds to player trading. It's a mess. Given there is usually a seasonal quest starting mid March or so typically, does this mean Primordial Darkness and the new seasonal are gonna come at the same time? Or is the seasonal being pushed back?

On JP, the final chapter was released 1 month before the UQ, only the epilogue was released together with the UQ.

About the early~mid March seasonal, I don't think it's happening in the EN version, white day isn't really celebrated in the west after all, and the next update will already be after this seasonal's date (white day is on March 14th, next update is on the 17th). Expect the next EN seasonal to be easter in late March.