NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?

I think we're all hoping that the kind of differences Global has suffered won't happen at all in NGS.

For real, the 10% sale tax is useless. If anything, it will encourage a higher initial price because people will factor in the 10% of the sale already. If I want to make 1mil instead of 900k; I will list the item for 1.1m. It doesn't solve the main issue that Sega thinks they are solving. I would rather have an alternative solution of having two kinds of item sell-types: variable-auction and fixed-listed (kind of how eBay works but with controllable variables). Not sure if anyone is interested in the idea, so I won't waste my time in full details, but that would be my solution to a fair and healthy "game market". If Sega wants to implement a new feature that is rewarding for spending N_meseta (a burner to combat inflation) but also has decent incentives like items or something, then work on perfecting that system; instead of trying to mess with the personal shop stuff.

Also (I haven't seen the NGS beta so maybe I'm wrong), can the devs implement a better basic auto-search function (that auto-completes from a live database API of the items, instead of cache or locally). In addition, can we get an API or some official AC item catalog on the website or something? Some items are so old or gone or IDK if they existed because no one can find them or whatever (like how is this not a thing even for vanilla pso2). You know what I mean. It would be also nice if the items have a list date or something, just basic details would be nice information to know. 😞

@Xaiyeon said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

Also (I haven't seen the NGS beta so maybe I'm wrong), can the devs implement a better basic auto-search function (that auto-completes from a live database API of the items, instead of cache or locally).

This.

@Xaiyeon said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

For real, the 10% sale tax is useless. If anything, it will encourage a higher initial price because people will factor in the 10% of the sale already. If I want to make 1mil instead of 900k; I will list the item for 1.1m. It doesn't solve the main issue that Sega thinks they are solving.

I don't really agree with this, it doesn't actually matter whether or not people end up listing the item for more than they would've otherwise. Taxes like this exist to combat inflation, which is gonna happen regardless as long as players have a way to make money directly from PvE content, and the increase likely just means they realized the current 5% tax wasn't enough to combat the inflation in base PSO2. Basically all MMOs have this in some format, whether it's market tax, or repair costs, or whatever else, if money's introduced into the system it has to be removed somehow. The higher the tax is, the more the wealth distribution is going to be shifted away from the favor of paid players, which will obviously be worse for some, but giving free-to-play players a "good enough" experience is key to any f2p game staying afloat.

You can also prevent inflation more by not implementing stuff like the Yerkes weeklies/ the 1mil meseta weekly too, but I think it's probably important to give F2P players avenues to make money like that so that they don't feel forced into the Pay economy in order to make any semblance of money (which for many is likely to make them more likely to leave than to actually pay in for).

Best news ever thank you Sega!!!! Thank you!!!

@RainGnyu said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

Best news ever thank you Sega!!!! Thank you!!!

Why do you applaud a direct loss of value? Do you think Premium will go down in price to reflect the changes? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. You'll be getting less for the same amount of money. This is NOT a good thing by any measure, and will not bring anything positive to the game.

@BloodyKyona said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

@RainGnyu said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

Best news ever thank you Sega!!!! Thank you!!!

Why do you applaud a direct loss of value? Do you think Premium will go down in price to reflect the changes? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. You'll be getting less for the same amount of money. This is NOT a good thing by any measure, and will not bring anything positive to the game.

Just because you said it doesn’t make it true. It just your personal opinion not factual.

I think this particular choice is just going to end up hurting F2P players. Sellers of these AC items aren’t going to just swallow the extra tax, they’re going to raise the price to cover the tax. Things will just end up more expensive.

With trading not a thing anymore and market restrictions I’ll probably just keep everything I scratch, I didn’t sell too often anyway, too many good things to keep!

@Milk said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

I think this particular choice is just going to end up hurting F2P players. Sellers of these AC items aren’t going to just swallow the extra tax, they’re going to raise the price to cover the tax. Things will just end up more expensive.

With trading not a thing anymore and market restrictions I’ll probably just keep everything I scratch, I didn’t sell too often anyway, too many good things to keep!

It has to sale for your argument to be relevant and the revolving nature of Price gouging will be negated if the penalty of greed is established.

@Milk said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

I think this particular choice is just going to end up hurting F2P players. Sellers of these AC items aren’t going to just swallow the extra tax, they’re going to raise the price to cover the tax. Things will just end up more expensive.

With trading not a thing anymore and market restrictions I’ll probably just keep everything I scratch, I didn’t sell too often anyway, too many good things to keep!

Unfortunately, if it works as stated, if you raise the cost of the item to make more and it doesn't sell, you are out that tax and have to repost it at a lower cost, but you won't get the initial deposit back. Also, with enough feedback, they could probably implement a system which includes a maximum value things can be sold for as well, which would technically be better than having a minimum value.

@Ragnawind said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

@Milk said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

I think this particular choice is just going to end up hurting F2P players. Sellers of these AC items aren’t going to just swallow the extra tax, they’re going to raise the price to cover the tax. Things will just end up more expensive.

With trading not a thing anymore and market restrictions I’ll probably just keep everything I scratch, I didn’t sell too often anyway, too many good things to keep!

Unfortunately, if it works as stated, if you raise the cost of the item to make more and it doesn't sell, you are out that tax and have to repost it at a lower cost, but you won't get the initial deposit back. Also, with enough feedback, they could probably implement a system which includes a maximum value things can be sold for as well, which would technically be better than having a minimum value.

Stuff does eventually sell though, maybe not overnight but even prices that are absurd eventually sell when the supply dries up(especially hair), I don’t think sellers tacking on 10% is going to prevent a sale or require relisting. That extra cost will just fall on the buyers, unfortunately. 😞

Also I believe that was a mistranslation, you only pay the tax when the item sells, not at the time of listing. They could make it like some other games that you pay tax for both.

Sellers charging what they want due to a lack of competition can only happen when there's no competition; when there is buyers can wait for them to compete and bring the prices down to an amount they're willing to pay. The AC Scratch exhaustive-supply model ensures this happens eventually and that has little to do with what the tax rate is.

On the other hand I'm not so sure everyone will be able to so easily associate PSO2 and NGS valuations to the point of being able to say "I hoarded something like this to 52.5 million in PSO2 six months ago so I'll sell this thing for 55.56 million today so I don't lose out!" Probably they'll just list it for 50-55 million for simplicity's sake.

And that's assuming the general value of meseta is going to be 1:1 between PSO2 and NGS. If for instance NGS meseta is factored down (if daily orders give 10k instead of 100k and if the Halpha equivalent of Yerkes + weeklies give 270k total instead of 2.7 million) then the two would be too unrelatable for most people to work out how to pass on a relative tax increase anyway.

Realistically the bigger impact of an increased player shop tax is to simply increase the game's passive meseta sink, which would either indicate they thought it was a little too high for PSO2 or that there might also be more (relative) passive supply than there was in PSO2.

@Miraglyth said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

And that's assuming the general value of meseta is going to be 1:1 between PSO2 and NGS.

There are some signs that indicate the economy in NGS is not that inflated as PSO2 is now.

https://pso2ngs.swiki.jp/index.php?デイリー・ウィークリータスク

These are the daily and weekly tasks in the beta, which corresponds to the weekly and daily missions of PSO2. The lists are incomplete, but we can see the weekly task rewards as

  • Defeat DOLLS, 0/100, 100,000 N-Meseta, XP reward unknown
  • Clear an Urgent quest, 0/1, N-Meseta reward unknown, XP reward unknown
  • Enhance a weapon or unit, 0/1, N-Meseta reward unknown, XP reward unknown
  • Complete daily tasks, 0/20, 100,000 N-Meseta, XP reward unknown

The meseta rewards seem to be pretty humble compared to what we have now in PSO2. I don't think finish a UQ once or enhance gear once will have significantly greater rewards compared to the other two tasks. And more importantly, these weekly task progress is shared between characters and the rewards can only be received once per account each week.

Secondly, for the container crates which can be found in the fields. In the CBT, 3 types of containers were confirmed, white, yellow and red. It seems that red were of highest value and the number of red containers is limited on account basis. They sometimes even have additional defending enemies. Then, rewards from such red containers are like 5,000 or 10,000 N-Meseta, it seems.

And another interesting point is that there was a comment like "Rappies are good enemies, they drop an N-Grinder and 1,000 N-Meseta". As seeing from there's no comments saying this as ridiculous, I guess a single N-Grinder and 1,000 N-Meseta are a nice to have reward, even if not super valuable.

So at least seen from the first beta test, there were signs to hint that the meseta supply in NGS is more limited. Of course beta is just beta, things can be different in the real release. But I personally guess the will be a difference of meseta value between NGS and PSO2.

@RainGnyu said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

@BloodyKyona said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

@RainGnyu said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

Best news ever thank you Sega!!!! Thank you!!!

Why do you applaud a direct loss of value? Do you think Premium will go down in price to reflect the changes? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. You'll be getting less for the same amount of money. This is NOT a good thing by any measure, and will not bring anything positive to the game.

Just because you said it doesn’t make it true. It just your personal opinion not factual.

Actually, my statement is a quantifiable fact. You calling it an opinion doesn't make it so. It is, directly, less value, period. Unless you can show proof that Premium is going down in price?

@BloodyKyona said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

@RainGnyu said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

@BloodyKyona said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

@RainGnyu said in NGS charging tax in advance on player shop sales?:

Best news ever thank you Sega!!!! Thank you!!!

Why do you applaud a direct loss of value? Do you think Premium will go down in price to reflect the changes? If so, I have a bridge to sell you. You'll be getting less for the same amount of money. This is NOT a good thing by any measure, and will not bring anything positive to the game.

Just because you said it doesn’t make it true. It just your personal opinion not factual.

Actually, my statement is a quantifiable fact. You calling it an opinion doesn't make it so. It is, directly, less value, period. Unless you can show proof that Premium is going down in price?

The seller is is paying a service to move goods, through a third party advertisement platform, which places the burden of proper adjustment profit on the seller.

Example: TV, YouTube, twitch ads.......