Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?

@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Do you honestly believe that increasing supply would change anything?

Well let's see... one of the most infamous hoards in Global to date was the Pole Dance emote, exceeding 200 million meseta in player shops across Ships 1-3. Then it appeared in Throwback Collection and spent several weeks being available for 35-40 million and even a few months on I see it's only gone back up to ~75 million on my ship.

So you know what? I'm gonna go with yes on this one.


@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Limiting the prices is the only way to make it more reliable

What is "reliable" supposed to mean in this context? That sellers holding an item worth 200 million would suddenly decide "Oh well I'll just sell it at some 100 million cap instead because I like throwing vast amounts of money away" ? That's not a realistic expectation at all.

If a handful of players are holding onto an item that gets rarely put on the market at 100 million and snapped up immediately (which at that kind of value disparity would surely happen) they won't do the same. They'll hold onto their excessively valuable item to use in a trade, either for more money than it can sell for (to circumvent the cap, potentially risking scamming) or for another excessively valuable item they want down the line which is also too high in value to be wasted in player shops.

I mean, extrapolate the thought process a little. Imagine they add a market pricing cap that's stupidly low like 15 million. Do you think players who get something like a Rodeo emote (~20 million) or that backless sweater (~25m) from the newest scratch are just going to throw 5-10 million away in an inefficient liquidation? What if they wanted one of the other pulls? They'd trade for what they wanted instead and ignore the player shop entirely. In the process, most items would disappear from shops, and F2P players couldn't ever have a chance to get them as they do now. And you're saying that's a good thing? It's no different regardless of what your arbitrary cap is.

What those rich players you decry would do in such a situation is switch the focus of their hoarding to items that are below whatever your imagination is for a sales cap, buy them, and hold onto them only until their value rises until they hit the cap before relisting them. So even items that would have been cheaper prior to the instigation of this cap would be forced to become more expensive. And because they were cheaper in the first place, those rich players will be able to do it to a greater volume of them too.

This idea would accomplish the exact opposite of what the people calling for it want. It's not the only way to make anything more reliable; it's one of the worst ways to interfere.


@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Improving and fixing those problems would help, but the fact it's PvP means that it still wouldn't be popular.

Oh I agree; PVP in a game that's PVE is always a largely pointless endeavour because if people wanted PVP they'd just play a game that intended to be PVP to begin with.

But PVP in PSO2 is even more unpopular than it would be because of how unplayable and unrewarding it is. To put it into context: There are several other enjoyable quest types that players have nevertheless abandoned for not being rewarding enough compared to newer ones. Battle Arena not only isn't rewarding enough but at least half the players in every game come out worse than if they hadn't played. And the servers' tick rate and biased geolocation make it unenjoyable too. It needs way more fixing than other quest types they can (and often do) just slap a UH difficulty on before players will care.

But again this topic is about the myth that empty PVP says anything about the server's population. It doesn't. It just says that Battle Arena is a truly awful game mode.

@Milk said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Pvp is dead because a good chunk of players don’t find it fun, making the game more populated isn’t going to fix pvp, there will just be even more people avoiding it. I don’t hate pvp, in fact the only content I’ve run recently on ffxiv has been pvp! It’s fun and when it’s done right it’s a welcoming, engaging environment for everyone. Pso2’s pvp is the exact opposite. I dread doing it, I only ran it for the titles and almost gave up because of the ridiculous wait times.

pvp in ffxiv has been since release other than daily rewards for it. I use to love the pvp in ffxiv but, it also died. Just like the community.

@The-Great-Paisano said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Milk said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Pvp is dead because a good chunk of players don’t find it fun, making the game more populated isn’t going to fix pvp, there will just be even more people avoiding it. I don’t hate pvp, in fact the only content I’ve run recently on ffxiv has been pvp! It’s fun and when it’s done right it’s a welcoming, engaging environment for everyone. Pso2’s pvp is the exact opposite. I dread doing it, I only ran it for the titles and almost gave up because of the ridiculous wait times.

pvp in ffxiv has been since release other than daily rewards for it. I use to love the pvp in ffxiv but, it also died. Just like the community.

Eh it comes and goes, the next mog event will liven it up a bit. I still run it regardless because I have my guild family to queue with, at least some modes.

@Miraglyth

I think the revivals have been so good for players because they aren’t willing to pay those scalper prices anymore, everything comes back eventually, why pay 100m+? The prices needed to change so I’m happy the people that greedily bought up the poledance emote again aren’t seeing a huge profit anymore. The market will only bend if something is appealing and rare, so I think adding more into the market would help the economy for sure.

@Milk said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

everything comes back eventually

Sadly not so... so much from the first few scratches and Mission Pass seasons that hasn't returned once in almost a year now. But that's definitely another topic. The only reason I brought up revivals here is because it demonstrated a very clear relationship between raised supply and lowered market value (which itself said the opposite about server population than what it was brought up to claim).

@Miraglyth said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Milk said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

everything comes back eventually

Sadly not so... so much from the first few scratches and Mission Pass seasons that hasn't returned once in almost a year now. But that's definitely another topic. The only reason I brought up revivals here is because it demonstrated a very clear relationship between raised supply and lowered market value (which itself said the opposite about server population than what it was brought up to claim).

At least it seems like everything that used to be 200m+ came back again. No more Shooting Star or Wings of Darkness for 500m+, that was just pure greed. I’d like the revivals to be handled better but it was nice to see the poledance scalpers lose their big fat profits.

I finally got Reaver Swallow, I had to go to ship 1 but they sold them for only 30m there! So happy, at least I have Reaver Swallow and Raison Venitas(?) now. They will probably never be revived, too old and no data for how desirable they would be.

@Milk said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

At least it seems like everything that used to be 200m+ came back again.

I'd disagree on that in part due to the lack of data point, but as I said before this really isn't the topic for it.

@Miraglyth I'm not talking about old things in PSO2, but new things in NGS here. I know they are connected in some way, but is the personal shop connected with all the old items still there? Because if yes, that's going to make the meseta resets pretty dumb, which makes me doubt that they are. So, it's to improve NGS. I don't think it would help PSO2 much anyway since people have had time to hoard, so if someone would be willing to buy everything and keep it for themselves, they could and would. Which means that we are all out of luck.

@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Miraglyth I'm not talking about old things in PSO2, but new things in NGS here.

I was talking about supply in demand principles that have no game-specific exceptions. The Pole Dance example was just that, used to demonstrate the principle works. NGS wouldn't magically differ from PSO2 or online markets in general because of it's magic NGS-ness.

That we know so far: New Genesis is using a separate in-game currency also called meseta. It'll have a separate player shop system that appears to operate almost identically to PSO2's just using items from NGS' inventory and storage space instead and with a flat 10% tax instead of 5% as in PSO2 (I still think a sliding-scale tax that can go above 10% would do more to combat hoarding of high-value items).

Beyond that, largely the same, so the same hoarding behaviour will end up happening within months and a counter-productive sales price cap will not help that situation.

Honestly just go to ship 2 if you want a lot of players to do stuff with. Ship 1 and 3 are whole heartedly community based now. Unless you are within the guilds you're gonna feel pretty lonely pretty quick.

@Miraglyth Why wouldn't it help? How many people do you imagining doing this kind of thing? Hoarding is one thing, but if someone actually buys all the items listed at the personal store to get a monopoly on it, that's pretty insane. If so, then i guess the only thing left is to remove the personal shop and try something original.

@Zeke said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Honestly just go to ship 2 if you want a lot of players to do stuff with. Ship 1 and 3 are whole heartedly community based now. Unless you are within the guilds you're gonna feel pretty lonely pretty quick.

he is not wrong in any way.

@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Miraglyth Why wouldn't it help?

I explained that here, which is what led to you questioning the existence of supply and demand in the first place.

Substitute currencies in games where value exceeds a money cap are far from new to MMO or instance-based online gaming. The earliest example I think I experienced was the Stone of Jordan in Diablo II in the early 00's, which has since been discussed several times or asked about by people wishing to understand how that happened. One such response given on the gaming stack exchange:

gold itself was not valuable enough to trade for any high-end items (because there was a max amount you could carry). So the economy needed something that was more valuable to serve as a basis of comparison between the value of high-end items

Bolded for emphasis: Basically limiting either players' capacity or throughput for a currency and then creating items that are communally-valued to be far greater than that will not magically force players to trade items for less than they are worth. It'll just eliminate that currency as an option for buying that item, as it usually has in the past.


@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Hoarding is one thing, but if someone actually buys all the items listed at the personal store to get a monopoly on it, that's pretty insane.

You realise that already happens regularly in PSO2, right? The limit of 30 items in a players' shop and in many cases the limit on when (particularly early) items have been distributed or how they could be acquired means that several items have passed the critical mass at which some players who had over a billion meseta back in May could gobble up the remainder?


@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

If so, then i guess the only thing left is to remove the personal shop and try something original.

And now you're dismissing the increase-the-supply option I'd already described and the confirmation that it has worked in the past. Why, exactly?


@The-Great-Paisano said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Zeke said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Ship 1 and 3 are whole heartedly community based now. Unless you are within the guilds you're gonna feel pretty lonely pretty quick.

he is not wrong in any way.

The alliance I'm in was made for casuals to do whatever they want and still be able to get alliance campaign rewards and tree buffs. It has 26 players and to my knowledge I've only ever partied with 2 of them who I've known long before PSO1 was made. I've not once felt lonely.

UQs of relevant content have always filled up fast if you start them on time and not at a difficulty that nobody is playing anymore (like Hard when the difficulty set is Normal through to Ultra Hard), and UQs or other irrelevant content are dead because they're not worth playing. And lately I've been finding myself jumping into random Shopping Plaza conversations that I stumble on more than usual too.

I've never felt it's required to be in an active or popular alliance, so I find it difficult to accept that a claim saying such is "not wrong in any way". It sounds like you're trying to coax people to transfer off a ship unnecessarily, which if anything would ultimately cause that problem. Please stop.

@Miraglyth said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Miraglyth Why wouldn't it help?

I explained that here, which is what led to you questioning the existence of supply and demand in the first place.

Substitute currencies in games where value exceeds a money cap are far from new to MMO or instance-based online gaming. The earliest example I think I experienced was the Stone of Jordan in Diablo II in the early 00's, which has since been discussed several times or asked about by people wishing to understand how that happened. One such response given on the gaming stack exchange:

gold itself was not valuable enough to trade for any high-end items (because there was a max amount you could carry). So the economy needed something that was more valuable to serve as a basis of comparison between the value of high-end items

Bolded for emphasis: Basically limiting either players' or capacity for a currency and then creating items that are communally-valued to be far greater than that will not magically force players to trade items for less than they are worth. It'll just eliminate that currency as an option for buying that item, as it usually has in the past.


@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Hoarding is one thing, but if someone actually buys all the items listed at the personal store to get a monopoly on it, that's pretty insane.

You realise that already happens regularly in PSO2, right? The limit of 30 items in a players' shop and in many cases the limit on when (particularly early) items have been distributed or how they could be acquired means that several items have passed the critical mass at which some players who had over a billion meseta back in May could gobble up the remainder?


@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

If so, then i guess the only thing left is to remove the personal shop and try something original.

And now you're dismissing the increase-the-supply option I'd already described and the confirmation that it has worked in the past. Why, exactly?


@The-Great-Paisano said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Zeke said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

Ship 1 and 3 are whole heartedly community based now. Unless you are within the guilds you're gonna feel pretty lonely pretty quick.

he is not wrong in any way.

The alliance I'm in was made for casuals to do whatever they want and still be able to get alliance campaign rewards and tree buffs. It has 26 players and to my knowledge I've only ever partied with 2 of them who I've known long before PSO1 was made. I've not once felt lonely.

UQs of relevant content have always filled up fast if you start them on time and not at a difficulty that nobody is playing anymore (like Hard when the difficulty set is Normal through to Ultra Hard), and UQs or other irrelevant content are dead because they're not worth playing. And lately I've been finding myself jumping into random Shopping Plaza conversations that I stumble on more than usual too.

I've never felt it's required to be in an active or popular alliance, so I find it difficult to accept that a claim saying such is "not wrong in any way". It sounds like you're trying to coax people to transfer off a ship unnecessarily, which if anything would ultimately cause that problem. Please stop.

You are literally a forum warrior that loves to argue and twist words just to keep posting on forums. Keep up the great work you are making a massive difference in peoples lifes ❤ best of luck kido! :3

@The-Great-Paisano said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Miraglyth said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Yggranya said in Is PSO2 DED Content till NGS or is it my ship?:

@Miraglyth Why wouldn't it help?

I explained that here

You are literally a forum warrior that loves to argue

Sheesh, you answer a question and this is what you get. 🤷

@Miraglyth

He's not wrong though.

You were posting in a topic a few weeks about one step away from outright demanding Sega completely changes their scheduled plans to add a PSO2 Premium campaign because you decided it was time for one.

It's one thing to offer suggests to the development team, it's another entirely to act as though you're the sole voice of the community, or that Sega outright has to listen to you because of whatever inane logic you pick out. What you were doing was not only cringeworthy at the highest level, but made you sound like a spoiled child upset that your parents weren't catering to your every demand and needs.

You also do tend to have a habit of going way overboard and arguing with pretty much anyone with a dissenting opinion to you. I get it, you're passionate about PSO2, so am I. But try to act a little less like the Fedora avatar you have, and realize that you're just another person posting on the forums, and while your feedback is helpful, Sega can't just outright change whatever they have on plan because you deem it important for them to do so.

It doesn't work like that.