monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations)

@Miraglyth That is such a blatant misrepresentation of what I said. You're "debunking" strawmen, inventing points I haven't made and then steering the argument towards them hoping I bite. It's very disingenuous and I'm not interested in playing that game with you. And you know, perhaps you should research what actually goes into the LoL champion updates before you dismiss them out of hand as so much less effort than what Sega is doing, and I'll remind you that LoL champions and skins do not get re-sold to us after that effort and cost.

Anyway, I'm elaborating my point one last time, which will be enough, and bowing out.

You know, I'm willing to compromise with a company operating in good faith, who lays down the reality and why up front, and says "But we value your patronage enough to acknowledge you and do something to soften the blow." What I'm not willing to do, is shrug my shoulders and throw more money at Outfit Rehash Scratches for a copy of my ninja suit that has the basic NGS features. If the game is brand new, and it is a brand new outfit, then why is it being marketed as an update to PSO2? If the game is an upate to PSO2, then why can't my outfit, eventually, have the basic features of the engine without me diving into an endless gacha for an updated copy?

Right now they want to have it both ways and it's causing a lot of unnecessary confusion and frustration. Maybe their marketing team should re-examine that.

@_Flux_ said in monetizing costume textures:

@Miraglyth That is such a blatant misrepresentation of what I said. You're "debunking" strawmen

Warframe, Fortnite and League of Legends were brought up by the topic's creator, so I wasn't debunking you at all. It wasn't a strawman either, since ENERSHA420 presented them as their best set of examples to support their claim other games didn't charge for what NGS is doing.

To claim my use of the word debunk was aimed at you is itself badly misrepresentative - it was very clearly not: "the thoroughly debunked premise of this topic's title". You aren't the topic creator.


@_Flux_ said in monetizing costume textures:

inventing points I haven't made and then steering the argument towards them hoping I bite.

Again, haven't done this and haven't tried to do this. If you're talking about where I said "both of these arguments are being made concurrently", I meant that your arguments are in direct opposition with those of others. You're both somehow agreeing that Sega should do the kind of work they normally monetise for free with a circumstantial reason, which is funny because the arguments you and they are presenting should be in conflict.


@_Flux_ said in monetizing costume textures:

I'm not interested in playing that game with you. And you know, perhaps you should research what actually goes into the LoL champion updates before you dismiss them out of hand as so much less effort than what Sega is doing

I literally did this. I gave numbers, assessments and linked three sources to show that there are far less models in the first place, that they have only updated a few dozen rather than several thousand, and that each model is both less detailed to begin with and has no need to cater to proportion customisation that does not exist.

You talk about not playing games and within seven words lie about research not being done. That's an impressive turnaround time.


@_Flux_ said in monetizing costume textures:

a copy of my ninja suit that has the basic NGS features.

And for hopefully the final time, that's just not what they're doing. It just isn't. I don't know what you expect to accomplish by repeating it when you've been repeatedly told otherwise.

Lmao these global complaints keep getting worse and worse, you don't feel the slightest bit of shame for your super privileged entitlement, right?

@ZENCHI said in monetizing costume textures:

you don't feel the slightest bit of shame for your super privileged entitlement, right?

Hey everyone is it me or is this guy's prejudices starting to show juuuuust a bit? 😉

@Akonyl said in monetizing costume textures:

  • A potential situation where the programs weren't linked, so nobody felt a sense of entitlement about transferring plugins (which was stated by the OP, he'd be totally fine with getting charged twice and wouldn't be making this topic if they called it a new game and didn't link the two)

i just want to address many times people put words in my mouth and this is one of them. i did not say i would be fine if the games arent linked. i said i wouldnt have a case. its equally egregious if its a seperate game. up until now i could complain that i have to pay seprately for PSO2 costume color swaps. its still stupid. you can make excuses for pso2 because its dated (not really bc monetization has nothing to do with that) but NGS is supposed to be modern and to get new players in. theres lots of competition and if NGS wants to be the next big thing it should start embracing a bit of 2021 modernism rather than nickle and diming the player base at every possible juncture

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

byt NGS is supposed to be modern and to get new players in

You do realise that making a new but referential outfit available to those new players by way of including it in a new distribution is better for them than only letting players who had the old versions access them through that fanciful free "texture update" (that is far more than textures)?

Wouldn't that be a nice way welcome new players to a relaunch of the game, by blocking their access to newly-created outfits. I'm sure that'd play out well.

And no I'm not letting the "texture update" misinformation slide, because despite editing the original post four times now (yes I did see you just quoted the gif I shared) you're still calling it just a texture update. It may be fair to ask for a more affordable upgrade route but this continued insistence of being knowingly wrong after everyone has shown you otherwise is seriously damaging your credibility.

@Miraglyth yes gatcha systems are totally friendly to new players. what planet are you living on? and i marked my edits with 'edit' to be transparent and add more relevant info to the beginning of the thread lol. any way its shitty when you buy a costume and you have to buy it again 2 months later if you want the updated version. i dont even buy costumes now for fear of wasting my SG/meseta

and yes it is a texture, rigging and animation update, again these are basic features of any other game.

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

edit 3: just to provide context to the discussion, Sega is in the top 25 earning gaming companies, roughly in the same economic class as Konami but is under performing them according to this link https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-25-companies-game-revenues/

I would just like to say here, SEGA been having a super rough year since COVID. They already posted horrendenous financial reports for at least the last 2 or 3 quarters. They just sold off nearly 200 game center managing rights and also cut over 700 staff (cost 9.5 billion yen for the severance program). On top of this, the 3 billion yen they used to develop and market Sakura Revolution which ended up as a huge flop, netting them only about 70 million yen on launch (not surprised, even though I'm a long time Sakura Wars fan, the mobile game turned me off greatly).

@HarmlessSyan so maybe if the delivered on the sakura wars game in a consumer friendly way (or delivered a quality product in general) it would have made money. im suggesting making changes to NGS that will reach a wider player base rather than monetizing a smaller player base and alienating the western market entirely (who have only owned the classic versions of their outfits for less than a year before they need to be replaced to recieve the update)

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

@Miraglyth yes gatcha systems are totally friendly to new players. what planet are you living on?

It's funny you accuse others of misrepresenting your words and then do this.

I'm living on the planet where the ability to get new referential outfits through a gacha (many of which if there will be more than this set will reference old outfits that were themselves gacha) is infinitely better than not being able to get them at all because you only started when New Genesis launched and didn't get the pre-NGS item needed to unlock a free upgrade as the only way to get it.

That was the obvious meaning of my post.


@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

its [snip] when you buy a costume and you have to buy it again 2 months later

It. Is. Not. The. Same. Item.

My god.


@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

and yes it is a texture, rigging and animation update

And what does the topic STILL say? Oh that's right: "monetizing costume textures".

Thank you for finally acknowledging there's more work involved than you've previously insisted (that only took 5 pages...) but you're still knowingly downplaying the work involved with the topic's title, which you had and passed up the chance to edit when updating the original post all those times. That was my point and as long as you keep doing it, that point still stands.


@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

again these are basic features of any other game

Again those other games have different monetisation models, and you have STILL yet to provide a single example of a game that has fully recreated SEVERAL THOUSANDS of MODELS at all, let alone one for which cosmetics are as much of the business model as they are for PSO2.

Warframe's automated increased compression of unaltered textures is a complete joke of an example and until you come up with something better than that embarrassment you cannot claim other games have done what NGS is doing.

@Miraglyth said in monetizing costume textures:

I'm living on the planet where the ability to get new referential outfits through a gacha (many of which if there will be more than this set will reference old outfits that were themselves gacha) is infinitely better than not being able to get them at all because you only started when New Genesis launched and didn't get the pre-NGS item needed to unlock a free upgrade as the only way to get it.

no one is suggesting that ONLY people who have the old version will get the new one. im saying they should be the same item. having 2 copies of every item is also going to make item management artificially harder. its particularly agregous when pso2 fails to deliver on many BASIC quality of life issues (i.e. green cds and bonus keys should obviously stack). or how about if the game launched without having to install a third party root kit? that would be nice lol (edit: referring to tweaker)

hate to say it bro but you are kinda simping rn

and there, i changed the title, i take your point, the title was misleading, i didnt know you could change the title actually

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

im saying they should be the same item.

Well they're not, and that doesn't seem like it would even be compatible with how new physique outfits, layered wear and CAST parts are registered to characters or equipped.

From what we've seen it looks like new-physique outfits are entirely separate of the inventory system. The stream I got the Close Quarter comparison from showed the old version being equipped into an empty slot to switch the character from using the new version. So how did that character have NGS Close Quarter in effect? We don't know. But it wasn't an item on that menu.

And honestly not having outfits, outerwear and especially CAST parts permanently taking up inventory slots would be a huge improvement I'd welcome. I don't believe that's a reason the new versions and the work involved in fully recreating them needs to be charged for (to me that is self-evident) but if it was a reason I'd welcome it on the basis of that improvement anyway.


@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

bonus keys should obviously stack

And how would their unique expiration dates work with that, exactly?


@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

or how about if the game launched without having to install a third party root kit?

GameGuard has a rich history of being easily bypassed in both Blue Burst and Universe 10-17 years ago. It was badly outdated then and hasn't improved since. I do agree with you on this one, but what you're doing here is trying to introduce a fully separate complaint that is easier to agree with and pretending that magically means all your complaints have as much merit.

It's separate. It's also nothing to do with the topic. Make a topic about GameGuard and I'd agree with you, but that's not what we're talking about here.


@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures:

hate to say it bro but you are kinda simping rn

Have we really already reached the point where the word "simp" is already being overused to the point of describing any criticism of a flawed complaint? Normally it takes longer for internet buzzwords to become this overplayed.

@Miraglyth i was referring to tweaker. and the dated quality of life in pso2 does not exist in a vacuum. people play the game despite these flaws, not because of them. if they want to implement such invasive microtransaction i expect the game to ya'know... launch

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

@Miraglyth i was referring to tweaker.

In which case "how dare you" on two fronts because the Steam installation launches just fine and Tweaker is a launcher with a third-party update mechanism that does not meet a single criteria for being classed as a root kit.

@Miraglyth i dont have the ability to switch my acount to steam because sega doesnt let you delete the account associated with your steam account (another quality of life mistake), and if tweaker isnt a rootkit then fair enough, my base assumption is that it is since it has to fix file permissions and to install it you have to go into developer mode and run an unknown script as admin. i have no idea what its doing to my system. im just assuming in good faith that neither gameguard or the tweaker team are going to steal my credit card info lol