monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations)

@Horosha-Onikage said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

But hey, if you folks keep repeating the same points, there's no convincing you, is there?

Friendly reminder that the biggest perpetrator of that particular behaviour is the topic's creator with their persistent use of comparisons that have long been shown to have no relevance whatsoever.

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

edit: on further thought i think there was a fundemental misrepresentation when they marketed NGS as an engine update when its really just an cosmetics scratch

PSO2-NG is a completely different/new game in the franchise. But after reading this comment you are obviously a troll. The mentality checks out with your username.

@Horosha-Onikage said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

Christ, entitlement when we've paid for the cosmetics already? I've played this damned game since 2012 and I DO expect the ones that SEGA is updating to be a free upgrade. I've already paid for them with scratches both on global and JP, with premium, with SG, with AC. Otherwise, you folks are just proving my point. Rolling over and letting these companies get away with more monetization. But hey, if you folks keep repeating the same points, there's no convincing you, is there?

Finally someone said it, why should we have to pay for something that was already paid for. Even if you bought it from the player shop, the fact is someone did already pay for it, and it shouldn't matter whether you or someone else was the one who purchased it. I find it rather stupid that people are saying they're perfectly fine with them making people scratch for the same item they already own again (or buy it from someone who did the new scratch) just because it was updated. Probably the people that are saying that have no plans on getting the new version, so of course they don't care.

I think the idea I agreed with previously is the worst case scenario that should happen with being able to get the updated version (as an outright purchase you can buy at any time permanently for only a few AC). Not having to either scratch for it again or buy it from someone else that did already.

I don't feel how much work it took to make the new version of the items is relevant, it's what's to be expected for what's basically an expansion with higher quality graphics. You expect the graphics on everything to be updated, not to have to buy individual graphical updates for every item.

@Riesz said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

why should we have to pay for something that was already paid for

You shouldn't. But that's not what this is.

Was the NGS version of Close Quarter made in 2010-12, fingers fully modelled and animated, but they had to use some means to automatically reduce the assets at the time to meet the engine limitations for 8 years until NGS let the model finally be used to its full potential?

If so, then I'd agree with the topic because the work to create the outfit would have already been done. But that doesn't seem very likely to me. In fact it seems pretty clear we are looking at two fully separate creation activities performed almost a decade apart. To turn the axis on the logic quoted: "Why should they have to work to make something twice, a full creation each time, that wouldn't be paid for a second time?"

And saying "I don't feel how much work it took ... is relevant" does not preclude that reasoning. It was two full creation processes. Downplaying the work to create what is obviously a fully new model by calling it an "upgrade" or a "new version" simply does not change this. In fact the creation of the NGS version may have be more work since the models are more detailed and they have to try to keep it looking acceptably faithful to the original version instead of having full creative freedom with a new look.

And yes, asking for thousands of models created over nearly a decade to be similarly and immediately (which is unreasonable btw) recreated for free just because you expect it - an expectation caused entirely by the fact that you're already getting plenty of other free updates and content with New Genesis, I add - is straying pretty close to entitlement territory if you ask me, yes. Expecting free things because you got other free things can't really be much else.

@Miraglyth said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

And yes, asking for thousands of models created over nearly a decade to be similarly and immediately (which is unreasonable btw) recreated for free just because you expect it - an expectation caused entirely by the fact that you're already getting plenty of other free updates and content with New Genesis, I add - is straying pretty close to entitlement territory if you ask me, yes. Expecting free things because you got other free things can't really be much else.

All the customers that paid money for those costumes have all their rights to be angry at the hilariously greedy scenario that they are offered to stick with. Their game, their terms, of course. But that they still are selling scratches with new costumes that you KNOW your NG created characters won't be able to fully take advantage of... it is just ridiculous.

Do you know what all this is just giving me? Low confidence in NG. Why? Because you can see they are changing their mind on game mechanics as we had been speaking! The first trailer had Just Attack rings, but now Just Attack is gone. But wait, changing the code on the layering wear and outfits, segmenting it, making a streamlined process to adapt the items?

It worked in Japan because there those predatory practices have success. They literally breathe gacha there everywhere and will buy 6 versions of Artoria at 1% chance. It had success when they made the whole Basewear-Outfit deal with "different combinations possible" and they expect it to work now too with Basewear-Outfit-NG costume citing "better animations and body combinations". The problem is that it is 2021 and outside of JP and there has already been plenty of backlash against such tactics. This is unacceptable and has killed interest on plenty of people to get Outfits and Layering Wear. Because those potential customers know they won't be able to use it at their fullest on the new character they make on NG.

And then, even if you were to ignore all of this, there is a question: Why would you want to wear on the expansion the same outfits bought twice? Isn't NG supposedly a... "new parallel game"? It isn't PSO3. What kind of "nostalgic" value has wearing Ash outfit? Or Cursed Coat? Wouldn't it be better to have the PSO2 skeleton even for a more "pure" PSO2 "reminiscing"? Now I want a PSO costume with PSO type animation.

@Aumires said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

@Miraglyth said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

And yes, asking for thousands of models created over nearly a decade to be similarly and immediately (which is unreasonable btw) recreated for free just because you expect it - an expectation caused entirely by the fact that you're already getting plenty of other free updates and content with New Genesis, I add - is straying pretty close to entitlement territory if you ask me, yes. Expecting free things because you got other free things can't really be much else.

All the customers that paid money for those costumes have all their rights to be angry at the hilariously greedy scenario that they are offered to stick with. Their game, their terms, of course. But that they still are selling scratches with new costumes that you KNOW your NG created characters won't be able to fully take advantage of... it is just ridiculous.

There's a reason I suggested in many threads for an exchange option either with original Mission Pass items similar to the NGS Sets in conjunction to a 100-500 SG fee, or the cost of Mission Badges.

That reason was Nexon's infamy for Mabinogi gachapons (lootboxes similar to AC Scratch) which contain Idle Animation variants that fetch high value on the player marketplace. (Ratio of the Idle Animation pulls aren't even 1 out of $100)

TLDR: Nexon can't market for logistical spenders, SEGA usually has a better plan than this.

And yes, asking for thousands of models created over nearly a decade to be similarly and immediately (which is unreasonable btw) recreated for free just because you expect it - an expectation caused entirely by the fact that you're already getting plenty of other free updates and content with New Genesis, I add - is straying pretty close to entitlement territory if you ask me, yes. Expecting free things because you got other free things can't really be much else.

no one is asking for all the models to be updated at once. this is like the original straw man everyone jumps to and is addressed in the OP. pretty funny how you accuse me of not supporting my points for many pages then you totally misconstrued my arguement lol.

however I am asking for them to add one universal hand animation to the models that have already been rigged and all have morphed versions of the same skeleton. and for the visual upgrades of pre existing models released for free as they are released (however the texture upgrades are mostly procedurally generated anyway, assuming they have proper implementation, and dont require any real work)

@Aumires said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

@Miraglyth said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

asking for thousands of models created over nearly a decade to be similarly and immediately (which is unreasonable btw) recreated for free just because you expect it - an expectation caused entirely by the fact that you're already getting plenty of other free updates and content with New Genesis, I add - is straying pretty close to entitlement territory

All the customers that paid money for those costumes have all their rights to be angry at the hilariously greedy scenario that they are offered to stick with.

It feels like you're trying to shield a weak point with strongly-worded outrage here. To repeat myself yet again, "those costumes" are from PSO2. The ones in NGS that look like them are different outfits, different items, and were not in any consideration when the outfits were first acquired.

And, uh... paid what money? The topic is complaining because four outfits are appearing in an AC Scratch set in NGS. These are Close Quarters, Sieg Jaeger, Viola Magica and Thousand Rim. You know how much money those cost? Nothing. They're all available in character creation. Though if you really want to buy more you can pick them all up from the Couturier in the Shopping Area for a combined total of 6,000 meseta.

How dare Sega rip people off for not giving people NGS variants of outfits that cost them 6,000 meseta, right? So greedy! That meseta was more than enough to pay real people to give everyone new replica default outfits on top of the new NGS default outfits that will already be free!

Now this is just how it happened to play out, because they may make new from-the-ground-up outfits to reference PSO2 weaeables that previously came from AC scratch. If so I'd still be cool with that, because it's not taking the old-physique items or ticket registrations away. But on the response from this topic perhaps they'd be best adding a couple of frills and giving it a new name because apparently that's the point at which it becomes acceptable? 😕

By the way if you guys really cared about this you'd realise you were barking up the wrong tree with NGS. I understand some (potentially upcoming on Global) SG scratch items are just going to be layered wear compatible conversions of some of the same outfits.


@Aumires said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

Because you can see they are changing their mind on game mechanics as we had been speaking! The first trailer had Just Attack rings, but now Just Attack is gone.

It's a little off-topic but Perfect Attack was always gone, right back to the Introduction. It's just that the earliest footage hadn't removed the visual yet.


@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

no one is asking for all the models to be updated at once. this is like the original straw man everyone jumps to and is addressed in the OP.

It was "addressed in the OP" after it was made clear how unfeasible it would be, and even now it is clearly sectioned as "edit 2" making it obvious it wasn't there to begin with. Moreover, yes people categorically are asking for all the models to be updated at once. Or rather no they're not because they're flat-out demanding it. Didn't you read the post I replied to? Let me quote it for your benefit:

@Riesz said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

it's what's to be expected for what's basically an expansion with higher quality graphics. You expect the graphics on everything to be updated

See that "everything"?

Quick question, have they said anything about weapon camo models being improved as well or are they staying the same?

@Miraglyth hes saying they set an expectation then basically walked it back when they revealed how the scratches work. lowering overall confidence in the game. I cant talk to you anymore, you are pretty much just Sega's doormat at this point

the more i talk about it the more i just hate classic pso2's monetization as well, makes me want to quit honestly.

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

@Miraglyth hes saying they set an expectation then basically walked it back when they revealed how the scratches work.

Firstly he clearly said everything. I know it doesn't fit the story you like to tell but that person definitely wants several thousand models to be updated immediately and for free. Sorry about that.

Secondly, set what expectation? Revealed what about scratches? They never said the NGS nostalgia outfits would be free, and these are just a regular AC scratch set with nothing yet known to be new about how they'll work in NGS.

@Miraglyth whatever dude, have fun with your lootboxes

@ENERSHA420

Miraglyth has spoken against Sega for numerous reasons, off the top of my head the poorly designed revival scratches and the lack of premium campaigns. You can disagree and argue but dismissing their point of view and saying they blindly idolize Sega is just flat out wrong.

I’ve sunk 1.5k into cosmetics in this game, I like my outfits and my infinite wardrobe options but I don’t feel Sega owes me an updated version of outfits I bought. They were just fine when I bought them before, why aren’t they good enough now? If I couldn’t wear them in NGS at all then I’d be pretty upset but that isn’t the case. My outfits still work, I’m not entitled to a fancier version of something I paid for. That’s like buying jewelry and being angry the company produced a new one with sturdier prongs or something cosmetic like more jewels, I already bought it, I don’t get to demand an exchange at the store. Buyer regret isn’t the company’s fault. Would it be nice? Sure, but it’s simply not realistic.

There’s no game I’ve ever played that has granted what you’ve asked. None. F2P games need to keep making money, there’s nothing in it for them to put that much time into making something like that for free. You can decide to stick to your older version or buy the new one. I’m honestly on the fence myself, there’s very few outfits I own that I would care enough to have the new version. I think what you’re asking/demanding for isn’t realistic for any company.

@Milk if you spent 1.5k on a game your opinion doesnt really count lol you should maybe make smarter financial decisions. this thread is for people that dont want to piss away all their money to Sega for minor visual upgrades

@ENERSHA420 said in monetizing costume textures (and model rigging and finger animations):

@Milk if you spent 1.5k on a game your opinion doesnt really count lol you should maybe make smarter financial decisions. this thread is for people that dont want to piss away all their money to Sega for minor visual upgrades

Yeah fuck me tor supporting a game, I’m a sheep I get it. My opinion matters just as much as yours and if you want to go there and be nasty about it, my opinion might even matter more because I actually had something to lose. I repeat, you and I are not entitled to free stuff on an already free game, we paid for old versions of our outfits and that’s what we got.

Honestly could you try arguing with people without being so snotty and rude? I don’t regret supporting the game and if you don’t want to that’s perfectly fine but you’re not going to make me feel bad about spending my hard earned money on entertainment when I can afford it, it’s not hurting you or anyone else and I help keep the game alive. I’m not entitled to anything more than F2P players are and that includes thousands of hours of updated clothing.

I literally only brought it up because it’s important to hear from all sides. I flat out told you how much I’ve spent and I’ve told you that I’m still not going to buy every updated outfit, only my favorites and I’m not bitter about it. I just don’t care enough about the update to get every single outfit. I seriously can’t believe you’re basically telling me to get out and my opinion is irrelevant because I bought outfits, in a thread about outfits.