Expert matchmaking,when?

@YagyuChan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

people such as @Milk have less rights to play in Expert Matching

Ironically whenever a more basic playstyle is effective which would favor these people you get some elitists crying about how it should be nerfed and SEGA in the past has been stupid enough to give in on multiple occasions leading to situations were everyone else had to make up for the lack of performance caused by their request.

@Ryoga said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@YagyuChan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

people such as @Milk have less rights to play in Expert Matching

Ironically whenever a more basic playstyle is effective which would favor these people you get some elitists crying about how it should be nerfed and SEGA in the past has been stupid enough to give in on multiple occasions leading to situations were everyone else had to make up for the lack of performance caused by their request.

That reminds me of the "golden days" of Shunka Shunran & counter being all that a Braver needed to do to excel.

Got complained about until the inevitable nerf.

@IfrianMMO said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@YagyuChan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I am an EU player and I have no issues.

Fair, but others do, you are not the standard, so i do not see how this is relevant.

@YagyuChan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

Your statement here sounds like people such as @Milk have less rights to play in Expert Matching as you do which is horrible to me and sounds super selfish.

Can @Milk produce the same results and play at the level of the expert players?

If the answer is no, then they do not have the right to play with expert players who specificially want to play with other expert players, because @Milk is not an expert player.

Do you even comprehend the entire point behind the expert matching?

@YagyuChan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

This is an elitist attitude which the game doesn't promote and the game includes all people am I not wrong here?

Expert matching is a game feature that has existed for, as far as i remember, more than half a decade, so asking to have it here as well does not go against the spirit of the game, being that it´s an existing feature.

@YagyuChan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

These queues will lock a large amount of the playerbase out from people that aren't leeches

I fail to see how that is the expert player´s responsibility, you really love to put the wellbeing of half the community on the other half of the community like we are some kind of surrogate caretakers.

Your heart feels for those who have difficulties to unlock Expert but you do not seem to consider how those "elitist players" may also have difficult lives of their own and want to spend what time they have to game enjoying and relaxing with people that can keep up with them.

You really need to understand that other players ARE ABSOLUTELY AND DEFINITELY NOT the responsibility of any other player and other players owe them ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

You are literally demanding that a half a decade old GAME FEATURE does not get implemented and thus limiting the enjoyment of half the community, so that you can feel good about helping the other half.

You are like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich so you can give to the poor, only you fail to realize that now the old rich have become poor, and the old poor are rich.

As for the solution that you ask me to give you, it does not matter, even if i had a good idea, because we all know that Sega/Microsoft will absolutely never implement it, because it would take too much work.

Asking for them to enable an already existing feature is not the same as asking to create a whole new system, exclusively for the English version of the game, so that a miniscule part of a small community benefits.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

So players like me are a burden, then. Got it.

Or maybe people just want to play with equally skilled players, thanks to a feature that has already existed for 5+ years in the original version of the game, and has nothing to do with you personally.

I mean, my age is starting to seriously slow me down as a gamer, i am but a shadow of how good i used to be in my early 20´s, and i would bet an arm that by the time, in 5 years, when PSO NGS introduces a theoretical Expert Mode, i will fail to qualify, as every year my reactions and reflexes grow slower.

My younger sister absolutely destroys me in fighting games, even at my beloved soul calibur series, even though at the time of Soul Calibur 2 i used to be a regional champ in my country.

And i do not get upset or call myself a burden if no e-sports team wants me in their SC team.

I understand that time is valuable and everyone has the right to spend it according to their own wishes, and if some do not wish to play with people at my level, they have every right to do so without that making them evil.

You keep saying that I only care for half the community but I have stated before I care for everyone in the community and I feel a solution for all should be developed. I don’t see why half the playerbase should suffer to make the other half happy. This is no different than the premium only block idea I fought against. In my eyes you have ignored half of the playerbase as you claim I have done.

@IfrianMMO

Yes my initial reaction to my name being used multiple times is a pretty negative one, I don’t think elite players are “evil” for wanting their own space, my first replies were an understanding to your plight, it’s a shame you don’t care about mine.

I don’t want expert matching as it is now, I don’t feel the unlocking requirements are an indicator of how well a player will help their team. I can’t pass because I’m by myself but I also play XH UQ like everyone else and in a team setting I can hit acceptable damage numbers and not eat the floor, I struggle in solo fights because the boss only focuses on me. I stick to easier classes for me because I need that bit of help but I don’t need babysitting from other players. Right now I main Etoile, they can’t even heal me anyway.

I want a solution that helps both sides, how is that unfair? No one should have to play with leech/AFK players but the game doesn’t ban them no matter how much I report. Is it unfair to look for an alternative where you get to play the way you want and I do, too?

I also read the “not one of you gave a valid reason” comment so I gave you one and your reaction is to see players as a charity case, that honestly makes me feel bad. Players like me aren’t trying to ruin your experience, I personally work hard to not let my team down. No one wants to feel like a burden.

Edit : clarified something

Expert only for the class you unlocked it

in jp you could play any class in expert mode

For starters, my condolences to @Milk's notifications tab for all the mentions XD

I seem to remember Milk saying she does quite well in MBD UQs (as evidenced by Top 3 rankings), so if she struggles a bit with solo UQs this sounds like a valid reason to question the current expert requirements. I also think the ship population argument could be a valid reason as it can be hard to find full lobbies on UH even now if you get a late start to the UQ (especially during off hours) and this will likely only get worse after the NGS launch.

Solution 1: Create both solo and 4man expert requirements and let players in if they can pass either one of them. Scale the 4man content up in difficulty (like ship infiltration only alil harder?) and limit moons/deaths to limit leechers getting carried.

Somewhat Joking Solution 1.1: Enable a feature that if someone with an Expert license gets reported enough* for leeching they get their liscense revoked and have to do the requirements again after a waiting period. (*Would obviously be a debate over this threshold, e.g. if more than 50% of a UQ's players report you in more than 30% of the UQs you run on expert then you get the boot...minimum of 20 UQs completed)

Solution 2: Use something like the voting system that's at the end of MBD UQs and allow players to select any members they don't want to be matched with again in the future (i.e. a separate blocklist for UQ matching purposes only). People who only want to play with the best of the best can block lots of folks (and potentially have long queue times) and the rest of us can just block leechers/afkers.

Solution 2B: Much more complicated, but you could try to employ a full post-UQ ranking system (default is all ties) and then use something like the Gale-Shapely algorithm to match players into UQ instances based on mutual high rankings (see Al Roth's Noble speech for applications). You'd have to gather data for a bit before implementing to statistically impute rankings for players you never played with before, and I'm sure it'd be a programming hassle, but I just wanted to bring up the theoretical possibility of such a solution in the spirit of coming up with a compromise between the POVs in this thread.

@Rang-Dipkin said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

For starters, my condolences to @Milk's notifications tab for all the mentions XD

I seem to remember Milk saying she does quite well in MBD UQs (as evidenced by Top 3 rankings), so if she struggles a bit with solo UQs this sounds like a valid reason to question the current expert requirements. I also think the ship population argument could be a valid reason as it can be hard to find full lobbies on UH even now if you get a late start to the UQ (especially during off hours) and this will likely on get worse after the NGS launch.

Solution 1: Create both solo and 4man expert requirements and let players in if they can pass either one of them. Scale the 4man content up in difficulty (like ship infiltration only alil harder?) and limit moons/deaths to limit leechers getting carried.

Somewhat Joking Solution 1.1: Enable a feature that if someone with an Expert license gets reported enough* for leeching they get their liscense revoked and have to do the requirements again after a waiting period. (*Would obviously be a debate over this threshold, e.g. if more than 50% of a UQ's players report you in more than 30% of the UQs you run on expert then you get the boot...minimum of 20 UQs completed)

Solution 2: Use something like the voting system that's at the end of MBD UQs and allow players to select any members they don't want to be matched with again in the future (i.e. a separate blocklist for UQ matching purposes only). People who only want to play with the best of the best can block lots of folks (and potentially have long queue times) and the rest of us can just block leechers/afkers.

Solution 2B: Much more complicated, but you could try to employ a full post-UQ ranking system (default is all ties) and then use something like the Gale-Shapely algorithm to match players into UQ instances based on mutual high rankings (see Al Roth's Noble speech for applications). You'd have to gather data for a bit before implementing to statistically impute rankings for players you never played with before, and I'm sure it'd be a programming hassle, but I just wanted to bring up the theoretical possibility of such a solution in the spirit of coming up with a compromise between the POVs in this thread.

Correct, I’m surprised you remembered that!

I think you’re on to something about ships, sometimes we don’t even get a full party on ship 4 and someone hits the button anyway because we’ve been waiting.

I really like your 1st solution, especially the part about limiting moons to prevent carries. Everyone has to do their part to pass and that is 100% fair, and players that can’t solo bosses still have a way of showing they’re in it to win it, too. One single test to fit all is literally my only complaint it being implemented.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Rang-Dipkin said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

For starters, my condolences to @Milk's notifications tab for all the mentions XD

I seem to remember Milk saying she does quite well in MBD UQs (as evidenced by Top 3 rankings), so if she struggles a bit with solo UQs this sounds like a valid reason to question the current expert requirements. I also think the ship population argument could be a valid reason as it can be hard to find full lobbies on UH even now if you get a late start to the UQ (especially during off hours) and this will likely on get worse after the NGS launch.

Solution 1: Create both solo and 4man expert requirements and let players in if they can pass either one of them. Scale the 4man content up in difficulty (like ship infiltration only alil harder?) and limit moons/deaths to limit leechers getting carried.

Somewhat Joking Solution 1.1: Enable a feature that if someone with an Expert license gets reported enough* for leeching they get their liscense revoked and have to do the requirements again after a waiting period. (*Would obviously be a debate over this threshold, e.g. if more than 50% of a UQ's players report you in more than 30% of the UQs you run on expert then you get the boot...minimum of 20 UQs completed)

Solution 2: Use something like the voting system that's at the end of MBD UQs and allow players to select any members they don't want to be matched with again in the future (i.e. a separate blocklist for UQ matching purposes only). People who only want to play with the best of the best can block lots of folks (and potentially have long queue times) and the rest of us can just block leechers/afkers.

Solution 2B: Much more complicated, but you could try to employ a full post-UQ ranking system (default is all ties) and then use something like the Gale-Shapely algorithm to match players into UQ instances based on mutual high rankings (see Al Roth's Noble speech for applications). You'd have to gather data for a bit before implementing to statistically impute rankings for players you never played with before, and I'm sure it'd be a programming hassle, but I just wanted to bring up the theoretical possibility of such a solution in the spirit of coming up with a compromise between the POVs in this thread.

Correct, I’m surprised you remembered that!

I think you’re on to something about ships, sometimes we don’t even get a full party on ship 4 and someone hits the button anyway because we’ve been waiting.

I really like your 1st solution, especially the part about limiting moons to prevent carries. Everyone has to do their part to pass and that is 100% fair, and players that can’t solo bosses still have a way of showing they’re in it to win it, too. One single test to fit all is literally my only complaint it being implemented.

Even Ship 2 struggles these days since I tried the new LQ the other day on UH and had to wait an exceptionally long time for people to join to run the LQ for the Rivalate Units and Weapon camos from the campaigns.

@YagyuChan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

You keep saying that I only care for half the community but I have stated before I care for everyone in the community and I feel a solution for all should be developed. I don’t see why half the playerbase should suffer to make the other half happy. This is no different than the premium only block idea I fought against. In my eyes you have ignored half of the playerbase as you claim I have done.

We both know that, a couple or three months before New Genesis release, Sega is not going to develop a whole new system to benefit a small amount of the even smaller English community.

It is obscenely ridiculous to pretend that we can get a feature that would require programming and developing from scratch implemented above the activation of a feature that already exists.

A feature which, by the way, should have already been implemented considering that we were promised all the game features and content for our NA/Global version.

We all know that the Expert matchmaking is not a perfect solution that benefits everyone but a solution that helps a big percentage of the community is better than no solution at all.

But wait, there´s more! (R.I.P Billy Mays)

Those players in smaller ships that may or may not encounter trouble with a split matchmaking have asked for it and it is their own fault that they find themselves in this situation.

WE WARNED THEM! WE WARNED THEM ENDLESSLY THAT THIS WOULD HAPPEN:

Every single post they made about how they refused to play the game unless they were given a fresh start (in a 10 years old game that will release 6 expansions in less than 1 year) and demanded more ships, was warned, told, debated and explained that the Western community was not big enough to have so many Ships.

They have ABSOLUTELY ZERO MORAL RIGHT to now try to hold an EXISTING GAME FEATURE BACK because they wanted their cake and after eating it too, their stomach hurts.

And ultimately, once again, it is not the job of the expert players to make everyone else´s experience enjoyable.

IT REALLY IS NOT and you need to put this into your head, and if you want to support the other part of the community then you have EVERY RIGHT to do it yourself, BY YOUR OWN CHOICE and play in the non-expert parties.

But you do not have the right to demand that everyone else does as well for the sake of some weird videogame sociocommunism.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@IfrianMMO

Yes my initial reaction to my name being used multiple times is a pretty negative one, I don’t think elite players are “evil” for wanting their own space, my first replies were an understanding to your plight, it’s a shame you don’t care about mine.

The problem is that you keep talking about "the leeches" as if they were the one and only problem, but as i have explained before, expert matching is not just about avoiding the leeches but about playing with the higher end of the player base.

Furthermore, and as i told Yagyu multiple times, we have to be realistic here, we all know t hat Sega is not going to develop a whole new feature exclusive to the Global version and exclusively for the benefit of a couple dozen competent players like you apparently are, in the middle of developing and close to launching New Genesis.

Whereas the expert matching is a feature that by Microsoft/Sega´s own words, should already have been implemented in Global since they promised everything would be coming to the west.

I do not know you personally and hey, who knows, perhaps you play better than me overall, but the bottom line is that you are an outlier, you are the exception that confirms the rule, and to pretend that every expert player be held back so that you do not feel left behind is a bit absurd and selfish.

And by the way, while i have not mentioned this yet in this thread, as a mainly JP player who plays NA on the side, i am not even sure if i could fulfill the conditions in NA once again, considering that i do not have my main JP classes leveled and my loadout is different.

There is a very serious chance that, if expert mode comes out in NA, i may be left behind too, but i am not arguing in favor of the expert mode because it benefits me personally, but because i find it´s exclusion and people demanding it never comes incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, and the proposed solutions, perhaps morally fair, but not realistic.

@IfrianMMO said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@IfrianMMO

Yes my initial reaction to my name being used multiple times is a pretty negative one, I don’t think elite players are “evil” for wanting their own space, my first replies were an understanding to your plight, it’s a shame you don’t care about mine.

The problem is that you keep talking about "the leeches" as if they were the one and only problem, but as i have explained before, expert matching is not just about avoiding the leeches but about playing with the higher end of the player base.

Furthermore, and as i told Yagyu multiple times, we have to be realistic here, we all know t hat Sega is not going to develop a whole new feature exclusive to the Global version and exclusively for the benefit of a couple dozen competent players like you apparently are, in the middle of developing and close to launching New Genesis.

Whereas the expert matching is a feature that by Microsoft/Sega´s own words, should already have been implemented in Global since they promised everything would be coming to the west.

I do not know you personally and hey, who knows, perhaps you play better than me overall, but the bottom line is that you are an outlier, you are the exception that confirms the rule, and to pretend that every expert player be held back so that you do not feel left behind is a bit absurd and selfish.

And by the way, while i have not mentioned this yet in this thread, as a mainly JP player who plays NA on the side, i am not even sure if i could fulfill the conditions in NA once again, considering that i do not have my main JP classes leveled and my loadout is different.

There is a very serious chance that, if expert mode comes out in NA, i may be left behind too, but i am not arguing in favor of the expert mode because it benefits me personally, but because i find it´s exclusion and people demanding it never comes incredibly self-serving and hypocritical, and the proposed solutions, perhaps morally fair, but not realistic.

Replying on phone, sorry if the quote is sloppy

Ok first the Billy Mays line made me laugh so thank you for that.

It’s not realistic to expect anything modified or added from scratch to benefit more players, no, especially with NGS around the corner but it’s something to think about for future content. A one size fits all approach feels wrong for Global. If we had the player numbers of JP maybe it wouldn’t be so bad, there would still be plenty of medium skill level players to join up with.

As it is right now without expert mode in an average UQ it’s usually only 2-3 people still alive in the parties I join, from the last eight I’ve done it’s either me or one other guy having to panic-moon everyone. I’m not a good player, I can’t even S rank some hardcore mode story bosses, it’s pretty dang bad if I’m the player last standing. I never have any moons left and I leave the UQ feeling like I got robbed of a fun experience because it was like pulling teeth. I’m sure expert tier players feel that way all the time, it sucks, it robs you of time for more runs and more loot so I absolutely understand why elite want to avoid all of that.

My complaint is selfish, you have a fair point, I like playing with people who pull their weight. My irl friends have demanding jobs or babies so I usually run with strangers. I don’t want to feel left behind, I fully admit that. I tried to beat Masq recently just so I could feel like I’m a good player but I haven’t been able to beat it. I don’t meet people in this game because I don’t want to feel like a burden or explain myself, that’s no one’s problem but my own.

SEGA promised “all the content” for many things, maybe it’s delayed for NGS, who knows. I think alternative requirements is a fair request for a feature we don’t yet have.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

My complaint is selfish

Worth nothing when the same thing can be said about the whole premise of the thread.

@Ryoga said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

My complaint is selfish

Worth nothing when the same thing can be said about the whole premise of the thread.

At the end of the day we just want to enjoy the game but unfortunately as of right now only one portion of the population gets to be happy. Make content harder and the elite players are having fun, make content easier and the casual players are having fun instead. It feels like an impossible task to please everyone but allowing more than one option for expert requirements would alleviate at least some of it. 😞

I can't even find a group running Divide 26-30. An expert mode is laughable at this point. There's just no one playing high level content. I had to solo the entire thing.

@Star-Platinum Invest in alliancecoin

@Laep said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Star-Platinum Invest in alliancecoin

I tried running armada with them once, they sucked. I don't want to bother with that again.