Expert matchmaking,when?

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I already said why I feel the requirements don’t match the content on this exact page and it literally had nothing to do with my personal circumstances. I was in support of the expert requirements even being raised because we’re already outgearing and outleveling the hardest content. There is no way in god’s green earth I will pass that when I just barely beat Masq lvl 1 by the skin of my teeth. It would be nice to beat the requirements just to say I did it but I don’t feel the requirements as they are right now fit our game, regardless if I can beat it or not. I said additional options for requirements would help the chances of players like me and while I sympathize with pro players sick of carrying leeches, I don’t like it either. If that’s selfish, oh well I guess. I think more options are fair to everyone, I didn’t want expert mode to just be taken away.

I should elaborate. I feel there should be additional options for requirements but they should he harder and actually scale to the difficulty of the current content, the requirements are from two episodes ago.

They actually do change the requirements. In fact the requirements currently in place came out a month after Ep 6's release. Obviously, those requirements are a bit old, but S ranking 2 solo UH quests isn't a bad requirement, IMO. I however do believe that the requirements could be harsher, and should be updated if possible to harder solo instances that aren't Masq (Since getting to a specific floor would be gated)

Apparently Expert matchmaking requires XH, not UH - so it 100% should be updated. Screenshot_14.png

Previously I gave an example from ffxiv, the Mentor system. How it works is you earn your mentor title by completing a large list of tasks that are designed to test your skill and your knowledge of the game. Every so often they raise the requirements and if you’re an existing mentor you lose your status until you complete the newest requirements, that way it’s not a bunch of players that earned their status years ago who haven’t touched current content. Now the mentor system is a lot different than pro players just wanting a private channel basically but the idea is the same. It makes absolutely no sense to me how beating outdated content proves you will do well in up to date content, and as I said before I don’t see how requirements that are solo fights help to determine you’ll do well in a team setting because there’s more to working in a group than your DPS.

The mentor system always has been, and always will be a joke and is a completely different system then Expert Matchmaking. Mentors are only required to get a class to level 80, and also get commendations.

Mentors have never been required to do content in FFXIV and that is why the mentor system is a joke. Even if all the mentors in FFXIV were in it to help new players, most don't even raid because setting foot into even the most baby of content (extreme) isn't required, but the entire system expects mentors to be able to guide a group of new players through an extreme.

It's very ass-backwards and shouldn't even be compared to expert matchmaking - which requires you to S rank 2 solo instances.

@NIC said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

Obviously, those requirements are a bit old, but S ranking 2 solo UH quests isn't a bad requirement, IMO. I however do believe that the requirements could be harsher, and should be updated if possible to harder solo instances that aren't Masq (Since getting to a specific floor would be gated).

Just correcting some info here:

The requirements are 2 solo XH quests, not UH.

You only need the XH Solo Mom&Dad S Rank title (幻創母神を超えし者), you don't need the UH title(幻創母神を砕きし者), and solo phanatical phantoms is a XH difficulty quest.

(For the mom and dad title, take a look at the 4th last "moonrune" if anyone's struggling to see the difference between the two.)


So I find it really funny if there are people who claim to still be unable to clear the XH requirements yet believing they (forgive me for being blunt and harsh) deserve to be burdens in UH.

Ahh, my bad I thought the requirements were UH. In that case the requirements 100% would need an update.

@NIC said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I already said why I feel the requirements don’t match the content on this exact page and it literally had nothing to do with my personal circumstances. I was in support of the expert requirements even being raised because we’re already outgearing and outleveling the hardest content. There is no way in god’s green earth I will pass that when I just barely beat Masq lvl 1 by the skin of my teeth. It would be nice to beat the requirements just to say I did it but I don’t feel the requirements as they are right now fit our game, regardless if I can beat it or not. I said additional options for requirements would help the chances of players like me and while I sympathize with pro players sick of carrying leeches, I don’t like it either. If that’s selfish, oh well I guess. I think more options are fair to everyone, I didn’t want expert mode to just be taken away.

I should elaborate. I feel there should be additional options for requirements but they should he harder and actually scale to the difficulty of the current content, the requirements are from two episodes ago.

They actually do change the requirements. In fact the requirements currently in place came out a month after Ep 6's release. Obviously, those requirements are a bit old, but S ranking 2 solo UH quests isn't a bad requirement, IMO. I however do believe that the requirements could be harsher, and should be updated if possible to harder solo instances that aren't Masq (Since getting to a specific floor would be gated)

Apparently Expert matchmaking requires XH, not UH - so it 100% should be updated. Screenshot_14.png

Previously I gave an example from ffxiv, the Mentor system. How it works is you earn your mentor title by completing a large list of tasks that are designed to test your skill and your knowledge of the game. Every so often they raise the requirements and if you’re an existing mentor you lose your status until you complete the newest requirements, that way it’s not a bunch of players that earned their status years ago who haven’t touched current content. Now the mentor system is a lot different than pro players just wanting a private channel basically but the idea is the same. It makes absolutely no sense to me how beating outdated content proves you will do well in up to date content, and as I said before I don’t see how requirements that are solo fights help to determine you’ll do well in a team setting because there’s more to working in a group than your DPS.

The mentor system always has been, and always will be a joke and is a completely different system then Expert Matchmaking. Mentors are only required to get a class to level 80, and also get commendations.

Mentors have never been required to do content in FFXIV and that is why the mentor system is a joke. Even if all the mentors in FFXIV were in it to help new players, most don't even raid because setting foot into even the most baby of content (extreme) isn't required, but the entire system expects mentors to be able to guide a group of new players through an extreme.

It's very ass-backwards and shouldn't even be compared to expert matchmaking - which requires you to S rank 2 solo instances.

It’s only XH? That makes it worse. Yeah they should update it.

The current system for mentor needs reworking but the intention behind it was you were supposed to be an expert and you could teach others. It’s an excellent idea but it needs an overhaul, god I hate players that beg for coms, like heck no, earn your freaking coms. There were also people who cheesed the dungeon requirement by spamming Ifrit over and over again. People cheat and they ruined a good system, people with crowns are usually aholes that don’t help anybody, but it wasn’t supposed to be that way and I took my crown seriously. We were supposed to set a good example for sprouts, know the game like the back of our hand and answer any & all questions. Most mentors now use the stupid crown to gloat.

But what I’m getting at is they kept updating the requirements, you didn’t get to earn your crown back in Heavensward and keep it into Shadowbringers. If you want to be an expert in a game then you should have to keep earning it.

@Misuran

That actually changed my mind a bit so thank you for that. We all do UH content now and it’s honestly not hard so if the requirements are just for XH then they should be raised. For some reason that never dawned on me, I knew the fights were for ep4 but I thought they were harder than that.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

It’s only XH? That makes it worse. Yeah they should update it.

The requirements could honestly be updated to something like:

★ 15 Weapon, ★13 Back/Arms/Legs, UH Solo PD S Rank, Solo Mom/Dad S Rank

I don't believe that the "Expert Matchmaking" system is suppose to keep average players out. I think it's suppose to keep bad players/under geared players from getting carried.

The current system for mentor needs reworking but the intention behind it was you were supposed to be an expert and you could teach others. It’s an excellent idea but it needs an overhaul, god I hate players that beg for coms, like heck no, earn your freaking coms. There were also people who cheesed the dungeon requirement by spamming Ifrit over and over again. People cheat and they ruined a good system, people with crowns are usually aholes that don’t help anybody, but it wasn’t supposed to be that way and I took my crown seriously. We were supposed to set a good example for sprouts, know the game like the back of our hand and answer any & all questions. Most mentors now use the stupid crown to gloat.

But what I’m getting at is they kept updating the requirements, you didn’t get to earn your crown back in Heavensward and keep it into Shadowbringers. If you want to be an expert in a game then you should have to keep earning it.

Honestly, the Mentor system is more then just "people abused it, so now it's bad". The honest truth is that no one can decide what it is, and how it should work - not even the devs.

The current mentor system:

  • Asks nothing of mentors extreme/savage/ultimate wise out of fear of lack of mentors, but requires that mentors be willing to enter extreme fights with new players. These fights can easily go south due to mechanics requiring to be completed, or wiping the party - so full party co-operation is required. On top of this new players aren't required to communicate with the mentor, so often mentors can be left in a dead end, where they have no choice but to give up.
  • Offers a reward for mentors who complete 2,000 mentor roulettes, meaning players are in it for the reward.
  • Has no heavy requirement. In fact you can become a crafting/gathering mentor without doing most content. The most gated things required to get to become a mentor is 1,500 comms, which people hand out randomly for things like "said hello at the start of the dungeon", "had a good glam", or "was the healer/tank".

The absolute worst thing is that what a mentor should be is a person who can give the most basic advice to new players to help them out. Mentors shouldn't have anything to do with extreme content. It should just be stuff like helping out with the most basic content, controls, explaining the basic combo systems of the game, explaining the LB system, etc - esp since FFXIV refuses to update the old systems they have, so new players are stuck not learning the very basics of the game.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

Duplicate, curse wifi!

I think minds can change, I know I’ve spoken to someone on the forum in suggestions and we didn’t agree on anything at all but I did walk away from the discussion a little unsure of my previous stance. I don’t think opinions are set in stone and a good argument can be persuasive.

Sure, but there is a big difference between changing one´s mind on a specific topic after being convinced, and changing one´s words on a per-thread basis like many people here.

You cannot claim, for instance, low population in this thread, then 10 minutes later post in the "Unable to find people to do triggers" thread about how your server is full of people and you have no problem finding full parties for any content ever.

And this is a literal example that i have seen since this thread began.

@NIC said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

It’s only XH? That makes it worse. Yeah they should update it.

The requirements could honestly be updated to something like:

★ 15 Weapon, ★13 Back/Arms/Legs, UH Solo PD S Rank, Solo Mom/Dad S Rank

I don't believe that the "Expert Matchmaking" system is suppose to keep average players out. I think it's suppose to keep bad players/under geared players from getting carried.

The current system for mentor needs reworking but the intention behind it was you were supposed to be an expert and you could teach others. It’s an excellent idea but it needs an overhaul, god I hate players that beg for coms, like heck no, earn your freaking coms. There were also people who cheesed the dungeon requirement by spamming Ifrit over and over again. People cheat and they ruined a good system, people with crowns are usually aholes that don’t help anybody, but it wasn’t supposed to be that way and I took my crown seriously. We were supposed to set a good example for sprouts, know the game like the back of our hand and answer any & all questions. Most mentors now use the stupid crown to gloat.

But what I’m getting at is they kept updating the requirements, you didn’t get to earn your crown back in Heavensward and keep it into Shadowbringers. If you want to be an expert in a game then you should have to keep earning it.

Honestly, the Mentor system is more then just "people abused it, so now it's bad". The honest truth is that no one can decide what it is, and how it should work - not even the devs.

The current mentor system:

  • Asks nothing of mentors extreme/savage/ultimate wise out of fear of lack of mentors, but requires that mentors be willing to enter extreme fights with new players. These fights can easily go south due to mechanics requiring to be completed, or wiping the party - so full party co-operation is required. On top of this new players aren't required to communicate with the mentor, so often mentors can be left in a dead end, where they have no choice but to give up.
  • Offers a reward for mentors who complete 2,000 mentor roulettes, meaning players are in it for the reward.
  • Has no heavy requirement. In fact you can become a crafting/gathering mentor without doing most content. The most gated things required to get to become a mentor is 1,500 comms, which people hand out randomly for things like "said hello at the start of the dungeon", "had a good glam", or "was the healer/tank".

The absolute worst thing is that what a mentor should be is a person who can give the most basic advice to new players to help them out. Mentors shouldn't have anything to do with extreme content. It should just be stuff like helping out with the most basic content, controls, explaining the basic combo systems of the game, explaining the LB system, etc - esp since FFXIV refuses to update the old systems they have, so new players are stuck not learning the very basics of the game.

(Sorry on phone, hard to do nice quote replies!)

Those requirements would make a lot more sense, especially gear. People with gear that can get them killed shouldn’t be doing UH content anyway. Once my dumb self used a loadout before an UQ and I didn’t realize for a quarter of the fight why I was taking so much damage and then to my horror I realized my loadout put me in outdated units! I’m talking 9* units. I felt each and every hit like getting hit by a truck.

The mentor roulette is so awful, people want that mount but you’re thrown smack dab in the middle of a usually on-the-verge-of-failure run and you’ve got to play hero. The system itself needs an overhaul but I like the idea of it and working to its full potential I think it would be something other games could emulate. Pro players should have to earn it and keep earning it and actually run the content. Right now it doesn’t work that way, obviously. When I was leveling alts, no mentor would explain the fights even when sprouts asked and I sort of get it because I’ve been chewed out before for trying to help but the purpose of the crown is to help sprouts. But I think the potential of the mentor system could be used in other games, if you’re an expert level player but then refuse to do any of the new content then it’s just kind of silly.

I liked one guy’s suggestion in PSO2 to have requirements be based in some way by Divide quests. Those are seriously hard, and new content.

@IfrianMMO said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

Duplicate, curse wifi!

I think minds can change, I know I’ve spoken to someone on the forum in suggestions and we didn’t agree on anything at all but I did walk away from the discussion a little unsure of my previous stance. I don’t think opinions are set in stone and a good argument can be persuasive.

Sure, but there is a big difference between changing one´s mind on a specific topic after being convinced, and changing one´s words on a per-thread basis like many people here.

You cannot claim, for instance, low population in this thread, then 10 minutes later post in the "Unable to find people to do triggers" thread about how your server is full of people and you have no problem finding full parties for any content ever.

And this is a literal example that i have seen since this thread began.

That’s fair, I agree with that. Heck I can’t even throw my hat into that ring because for that specific example my ship has always been empty. 😞 but I get the frustration.

I’ve got characters on ships 2/3/4 and my main is 4, it’s honestly so empty I want to move but I’ll have to move a lot of characters and haven’t decided on a better ship yet.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

(Sorry on phone, hard to do nice quote replies!)

No worries

Those requirements would make a lot more sense, especially gear. People with gear that can get them killed shouldn’t be doing UH content anyway. Once my dumb self used a loadout before an UQ and I didn’t realize for a quarter of the fight why I was taking so much damage and then to my horror I realized my loadout put me in outdated units! I’m talking 9* units. I felt each and every hit like getting hit by a truck.

The mentor roulette is so awful, people want that mount but you’re thrown smack dab in the middle of a usually on-the-verge-of-failure run and you’ve got to play hero. The system itself needs an overhaul but I like the idea of it and working to its full potential I think it would be something other games could emulate. Pro players should have to earn it and keep earning it and actually run the content. Right now it doesn’t work that way, obviously. When I was leveling alts, no mentor would explain the fights even when sprouts asked and I sort of get it because I’ve been chewed out before for trying to help but the purpose of the crown is to help sprouts. But I think the potential of the mentor system could be used in other games, if you’re an expert level player but then refuse to do any of the new content then it’s just kind of silly.

I liked one guy’s suggestion in PSO2 to have requirements be based in some way by Divide quests. Those are seriously hard, and new content.

They could honestly just also add gear requirements to quests to also require a gear level, like requiring UH persona to be 85/85 + have a 15 star weapon.

@NIC said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

They could honestly just also add gear requirements to quests to also require a gear level, like requiring UH persona to be 85/85 + have a 15 star weapon.

I honestly don't like min gear requirements lockout systems in (some) games because it disables the ability to do certain types of challenge runs, unless there's a toggle to turn off the requirement for the specific run/room/group (min requirement default to on, in this case obviously).

@NIC said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

They could honestly just also add gear requirements to quests to also require a gear level, like requiring UH persona to be 85/85 + have a 15 star weapon.

This is something that should be expected as a bare minimum IMO (except with a bit more lax requirements; a 13 star unit of some kind and at least a 13 star weapon, lest you lockout certain still viable weapons like Nemesis Harmonizer). That Sega hasn't implemented even a facsimile until NGS tells me something in their engine regarding this is super hard-coded and doesn't allow them to do it easily.

@Misuran said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I honestly don't like min gear requirements lockout systems in (some) games because it disables the ability to do certain types of challenge runs, unless there's a toggle to turn off the requirement for the specific run/room/group (min requirement default to on, in this case obviously).

While valid, that's also such a super rare edge case that I don't know if it'd be worth continuing to frustrate players over.

@_Flux_ said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Misuran said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I honestly don't like min gear requirements lockout systems in (some) games because it disables the ability to do certain types of challenge runs, unless there's a toggle to turn off the requirement for the specific run/room/group (min requirement default to on, in this case obviously).

While valid, that's also such a super rare edge case that I don't know if it'd be worth continuing to frustrate players over.

That's why I suggested the middle ground of there being an opt-out 'toggle' to turn off the min requirement for specific runs (maybe only for non pug-able, private premade runs) for if the game goes into having a min-gear system.

After all, this is a game where skill matters more than gear, where it's entirely possible to clear things (and outperform some "properly geared" people) with 1* weapons and where some people actually do enjoy doing these kinds of challenge runs, in private (because I feel like this needs to be emphasized).

Hey, I get it; I wasn't meaning to dismiss the idea entirely. I'm just saying that they have to balance the effort to implement vs. how many players are actually asking for it, and this stuff becomes more complicated when you're working with an existing engine instead of accounting for it from the beginning (like FFXIV ARR did).

Like I said, it's valid. It'd be great for parties to have that kind of customization over their difficulty, and I hope the devs take that into account.

That would honestly be great to toggle gear requirements for private parties. Some of my best memories in ffxiv was with my friends in baby mode gear and seeing how far we could get and videos of completion times of people in starter gear makes good entertainment. The concept isn’t new obviously so it’s a shame PSO2 doesn’t have it but maybe we’ll get lucky down the line with NGS.

And yes there should be a minimum for gear in UH at least, maybe not top of the line but something reasonable. I shouldn’t have even been able to go in with my newbie Luster gear mixup.

Just 13 star units + 10 alone would be good enough for me. I am very, very patient when it comes to people in my MPA because I know the only way to practice Ultra Hard is to be in Ultra Hard, but if they can't dodge, they should at least have the bulk to potentially survive the hits or you end up with my last Persona run where everyone, everrrrryone was out of moons by the Over the Universe phase.