Expert matchmaking,when?

@AiC-L said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

Phaleg is just a reaction test at this point due to the power creep making the S rank easy to hit if you can react. The fight doesn't really check positioning or planning either.

If you're just trying to assess your own skills, 4-man Persona trigger is a lot broader in coverage, and the Varuna story fight is more fair of a duel boss (healing, can avoid instead of iframing, can fish for counters on swords, etc) while still being easily accessible. Don't pay too much attention to the exact times you get, but ask yourself whether there's anything you did that you did that you could have improved on. Those two fights have a lot of ways to shave time off that are applicable to other bosses. Precasting, blind spots, chain counters, all sorts of things. Plus they both push you hard on defense, but let you heal instead of resetting the whole thing.

That’s actually really helpful, thank you!

@HarmlessSyan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

Fights like Phaleg and Masquerade are meant to train you to avoid damage - like many action games. Rather than trading hits to see who dies first or who runs out of resources first, you are suppose to avoid getting hit in the first place. This isn't your typical holy trinity game where a healer is going to be healing the damage you are taking, rather you are suppose avoid that damage in the first place.

When solo ultimate quest for Sodam comes out, this is a DPS sponge where you can check your DPS as Sodam has much slower attack speed. Here you can actually see if you are doing decent DPS, depth 1 starts at 66 million HP and depth 100 has 250 million HP. The time limit is 15 minutes, it includes all the cutscenes for phase transitions so you need to factor that in starting from depth 30 and onwards when Sodam gains the double element phase and later the final phase of the fight from 40 and every 10 depth afterwards.

You’re right, and in those games I always play a class with a safety net because unfortunately I’m aware of my limitations. I can practice a fight until I memorize it but the reflexes just don’t match the eyes anymore. I don’t think I’ll be able to beat Phaleg but who knows, I said the same thing about Masq but I finally beat him! I’m looking forward to that Sodam fight now.

@HarmlessSyan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

Fights like Phaleg and Masquerade are meant to train you to avoid damage - like many action games. Rather than trading hits to see who dies first or who runs out of resources first, you are suppose to avoid getting hit in the first place. This isn't your typical holy trinity game where a healer is going to be healing the damage you are taking, rather you are suppose avoid that damage in the first place.

When solo ultimate quest for Sodam comes out, this is a DPS sponge where you can check your DPS as Sodam has much slower attack speed. Here you can actually see if you are doing decent DPS, depth 1 starts at 66 million HP and depth 100 has 250 million HP. The time limit is 15 minutes, it includes all the cutscenes for phase transitions so you need to factor that in starting from depth 30 and onwards when Sodam gains the double element phase and later the final phase of the fight from 40 and every 10 depth afterwards.

Masq can be face tanked if you want unless it is depth 999 but even then if you are clever you can face tank it while Phaleg is complete annoyance since no time to heal and 95% reduction in all healing.

@YagyuChan only if you play a class have access to Anti, else on higher depths that injury is going to eventually screw you as you are stuck at 10% max hp. After you lose the 15* damage bonus, you longer can really burn him down super fast before he kills you if you are just trading hits with him.

@HarmlessSyan said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@YagyuChan only if you play a class have access to Anti, else on higher depths that injury is going to eventually screw you as you are stuck at 10% max hp. After you lose the 15* damage bonus, you longer can really burn him down super fast before he kills you if you are just trading hits with him.

Etoile is stupidly OP against injury status and almost seems bugged to me with Damage Balancer and the like applied in the skill tree. Even then you can face tank him and even kill him quick enough.

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So after having my first incident and failing a TPD run when people slowly left during sodam, i suppose i'll have to admit that the fight is probably too hard for the average player. I doubt that any amount of Expert Requirement would fix this issue, the only thing i can do now is seriously contemplate whether playing NGS on global isn't actually gonna be a detriment to the game's enjoyment. Considering you wont get around group content there either and this MPA wasn't held back by any gear related issues i can only guess that players just don't really care that much.

Understandable but this makes the game kinda painful to play.

@Macmaxi So you die instantly when the multiplayer crutch wears off? Maybe if you weren't bad you could've finished it off yourself instead of crying for help.

@Macmaxi said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

the fight is probably too hard for the average player

It's not just this fight, "the average players" drop like flies in regular PD too. The issue here is that the fight is essentially one big DPS check so your capacity to carry them is severely limited. The best thing you can do when PuGing this fight is to play ranger (or bring a friend who does) as it's a rather favorable fight for the class and WB really makes a difference as it boosts up the ≈30% of the MPA who are usually at least able to "pull their own weight".

@Hooonter said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Macmaxi So you die instantly when the multiplayer crutch wears off? Maybe if you weren't bad you could've finished it off yourself instead of crying for help.

Get your head out of your rear end with that garbage statement. It's not the solo ultimate version for a reason, its intended to be played with other players.

I find Primordial Darkness easier than Profound Darkness, it just got more HP. Maybe just biased since I did the Depth 100 climb on it.

I remember going Etoile the first time I did this UQ blind just to be safe, still lived when it barfed on me on final phase - damage balancer OP. I did the Ultimate climb on Luster though.

I'm reserving judgment for another week or so, but in ~15 pugs on UH (none via triggers) I've yet to run into folks abandoning the quest. I'm hopeful things will get better for a few reasons: 1) It's a new UQ with a few new mechanics to learn; 2) There are new players who have power leveled and UH UQs are the wake-up call; and 3) There's a boost week coming up. In order:

  1. Until there are more guides, I expect it'll take folks a few runs to learn the mechanics just as it did when UQs like Luther (clock), Magetsu (2nd phase), Deus Esca (4 man), and Dragon (4 man) first launched. For instance, from the story mission I knew to jump platforms in Phase 1 but didn't notice the minimap indicators until subsequent runs. Breaking the rings in Phase 3 was pretty obvious, but it took a couple runs to learn to hide behind glaciers, jump into the tornado, and break water bubbles in Phase 2. And I rarely pay attention to the top left of my screen so it wasn't until I looked at the wiki right now that I learned there are rotating dmg weaknesses in Phase 2 and that you can inflict burn or poison on the rings in Phase 3.

  2. I've had runs with Lvl 85 and low 90s players and unsurprisingly these are the folks getting one-shot a bunch. I'm hopeful that many of these players will either drop down in difficulty, look for guides, and/or invest more into their character (or an ET subclass) as a result of the experience. The game has a way of lulling you into a false sense of security because you can easily go into quests underleveled in the earlier difficulties and think you have everything mastered (especially with over-leveled gear from catch-up campaigns/Collection Folders/Badge Shops). For me, the wake up call was jumping into SH Luther underleveled back when SH was bugged to have significantly more HP and we failed a 30min run. These days folks can power level to EH content fairly easily and things like optimizing your skill tree, using a meta rotation, and affixing your gear won't seem worth it until you get your butt kicked in UH content and want to grind items from that content.

  3. I'm also hopeful that more DPS checks will be passed after the upcoming boost week. With true endgame gear available, a 20% boost to success rates, and zeo meseta costs I think many "average players" will find the motivation to move past hand-out gear/affixes and make at least a decent budget build using a Glare, an Ex Soul, and SAFs.

There will always be players who feel no shame leeching or getting carried, as well as those who don't think it's worth investing time/resources improving their character/gameplay with NGS right around the corner. However, if even a few more people in each UQ learn the mechanics and improve on DPS we can shift the distribution of completion times to the left and hopefully decrease the likelihood of an abandonment train. As of now, I've had about 3 runs take > 30min and about the same number take < 15min with the majority in between. If this is still the case in mid-April I'll jump on board the "this content is just too hard for global pugs" wagon.

I quite enjoy Primordial but I get some pretty awful parties. My last run was over 40 minutes. No moons left, half the party always dead. People died repeatedly even in first phase. It’s still new so people could improve but these runs are a doozie.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I quite enjoy Primordial but I get some pretty awful parties. My last run was over 40 minutes. No moons left, half the party always dead. People died repeatedly even in first phase. It’s still new so people could improve but these runs are a doozie.

Longest run I've had was 28 minutes, and that is from pug runs. I guess I'm just lucky to never run into groups like these.

Although I have heard runs get bad after the early arrivals to the UQ. The people entering right away have been fairly nice so far.

I keep saying that the majority of NA players believe to be a lot better at the game than they actually are.

I wish parsers and DPS meters were legal and public and every player had access to them. Not to mock people or humiliate them, mind me, that should be bannable, but because it would help a lot of people to improve.

I feel like a major problem of the NA community is that for the most part it only has itself to compare and with no native tools to truly measure performance in the middle of a fight, or to truly know much one does, there is no incentive to get better.

People nag about elitists and elitist attitudes, but i feel like more than one poster in this thread would be surprised to find their contribution in the single digit/lower double digit %.

@IfrianMMO said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I keep saying that the majority of NA players believe to be a lot better at the game than they actually are.

I wish parsers and DPS meters were legal and public and every player had access to them. Not to mock people or humiliate them, mind me, that should be bannable, but because it would help a lot of people to improve.

I feel like a major problem of the NA community is that for the most part it only has itself to compare and with no native tools to truly measure performance in the middle of a fight, or to truly know much one does, there is no incentive to get better.

People nag about elitists and elitist attitudes, but i feel like more than one poster in this thread would be surprised to find their contribution in the single digit/lower double digit %.

I had quite a few people who boasted their dps being really good, need stealth rings so they didnt have aggro all the time and complain about how long UQs take when ever they cant get into the alliance UQ. I did an alliance event where we spent some time in risk as a full group and I never once saw those people in top 3 when it came to overall damage. It's a little janky, but its better than nothing. All those people have suddenly stopped talking about having high dps or complain about slow UQ times.

@Milk Yeah, that really stinks as I think I've only had 1 run out of ~15 where half the party was dying regularly. As @SuccubusAlice mentioned, I've probably just been lucky so far. Other, less likely, possibilities include:

  • Joining the UQ early (always either immediately or within the first 5 min)
  • Playing on Ship 1 where the average playtime/UH experience/gear level may be a little higher than Ships 3 or 4.
  • Joining in unpopulated blocks as my XBox can't handle the populated ones. It could be that, on average, players more interested in socializing, role playing, fashion, etc. on the popular blocks invest less in their gear and have less experience fighting endgame enemies. Again, this is just speculation and would be a theory about the average player on those blocks/with those interests as I'm sure the very best players also engage in similar behavior.

But, as I said at the start, I think random luck is the most likely answer. I'll be crossing my fingers that you get some good runs in the future to make up for the bad ones!!