Expert matchmaking,when?

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

But it concerns me, what about the medium skill level players?

They would be screwed ofc., maybe their performance would be acceptable for the content in question but they won't have the additional pull to also carry 5 or more bottom tier players which is why I said that if they want to add expert matchmaking they should also add additional tiers to further segment the playerbase after all the "people should be able to play in PuGs with likeminded players" applies universally.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

But it concerns me, what about the medium skill level players? They’ll be forced to either “git gud” and pass the requirements someday or be stuck playing with leechers because all the good players won’t run outside of expert anymore. Hopefully they manage to join parties of a similar skill level, too.

The expert requirement is not that hard though, I think a medium skilled player would only really have problems with Phaleg (easier than the story version) and maybe Omega Hunar in the extreme quest, and even those only take some practice.

For the solo trigger raid, only the XH version is needed for expert, the easily obtainable Croesus/Millionaire collection files weapons and Schvelle units are enough to S rank the UH version of that trigger raid with some classes, so I think the XH version should be easily doable with most if not all classes for medium skilled players.

@Ezodagrom said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

But it concerns me, what about the medium skill level players? They’ll be forced to either “git gud” and pass the requirements someday or be stuck playing with leechers because all the good players won’t run outside of expert anymore. Hopefully they manage to join parties of a similar skill level, too.

The expert requirement is not that hard though, I think a medium skilled player would only really have problems with Phaleg (easier than the story version) and maybe Omega Hunar in the extreme quest, and even those only take some practice.

For the solo trigger raid, only the XH version is needed for expert, the easily obtainable Croesus/Millionaire collection files weapons and Schvelle units are enough to S rank the UH version of that trigger raid with some classes, so I think the XH version should be easily doable with most if not all classes for medium skilled players.

There’s also players that genuinely try and still can’t pass those requirements due to irl circumstances like a handicap, they’ll still be lumped in with leechers and 1-button mashers and they’ll be the carriers now. Heck, even for the red dragon fight everyone save for two players died multiple times last I played, it’s a really worrying thought. I don’t blame pro players one bit for wanting out, though.

If you keep up with ep6 gear then the solo requirement for expert matchmaking is pretty easy. It was pretty hard before but with the new weapons and units we have access to now it should be pretty easy if you know how to to play your class decently.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

they’ll still be lumped in with leechers and 1-button mashers and they’ll be the carriers now

Not necessarily, you yourself seem to generalize without looking at the bigger picture. First of "1-button mashers" is a complaint with no substance. In PuGs I'd prefer to have a Ranger who only spamms Steady Shot over someone who "genuinely tries but fails" with their class any day of the week if he at least knows how to place Blight Rounds, same goes for these Photon Blade spam builds on Bouncer because in the end performance is what really counts. This is where a DPS meter would instantly solve the issue as it would show you exactly who performed and who doesn't.

@Ryoga said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

they’ll still be lumped in with leechers and 1-button mashers and they’ll be the carriers now

Not necessarily, you yourself seem to generalize without looking at the bigger picture. First of "1-button mashers" is a complaint with no substance. In PuGs I'd prefer to have a Ranger who only spamms Steady Shot over someone who "genuinely tries but fails" with their class any day of the week if he at least knows how to place Blight Rounds, same goes for these Photon Blade spam builds on Bouncer because in the end performance is what really counts. This is where a DPS meter would instantly solve the issue as it would show you exactly who performed and who doesn't.

It was more along the lines of autoattackers, I think it’s safe to say we can agree on that not being good for the group.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Ryoga said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

they’ll still be lumped in with leechers and 1-button mashers and they’ll be the carriers now

Not necessarily, you yourself seem to generalize without looking at the bigger picture. First of "1-button mashers" is a complaint with no substance. In PuGs I'd prefer to have a Ranger who only spamms Steady Shot over someone who "genuinely tries but fails" with their class any day of the week if he at least knows how to place Blight Rounds, same goes for these Photon Blade spam builds on Bouncer because in the end performance is what really counts. This is where a DPS meter would instantly solve the issue as it would show you exactly who performed and who doesn't.

It was more along the lines of autoattackers, I think it’s safe to say we can agree on that not being good for the group.

Even that depends, there is a reason why you have "players that genuinely try" and still fail the expert requirements and "AA spammers" that pass. Knowing what to prioritize, what to ignore and how to position yourself can make quite the difference but you wouldn't be able to tell if you judge someone's performance based on the attacks he's using alone.

I have never experienced a difference with expert on or off in any UQ's that i played.

I feel like if we do get Expert matching in our version of the game we should get a different form of Expert matching than the JP version has. I feel like the version of Expert matching the JP version has would just leave players here that are legitmately trying, but just barely aren't strong enough in the dust for some content when it's not necessary.

Like for example I know that was an old requirement, but there are definitely people that for example can't clear that bonus Phaleg fight, but can clear UH Urgent Quests, because Phaleg moves much faster than the bosses in an Urgent Quest for example, and nerfs your healing quite a bit.

I just feel like we don't need a matching system with only really good players, and that simply having one that only leaves some of the worst players out instead would be a much better system for us. That would make it a much bigger percentage of players, but still keep out the players that only hold everyone else back or contribute very little (or nothing) to any content that needs more effort put into it.

@Ryoga said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Ryoga said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

they’ll still be lumped in with leechers and 1-button mashers and they’ll be the carriers now

Not necessarily, you yourself seem to generalize without looking at the bigger picture. First of "1-button mashers" is a complaint with no substance. In PuGs I'd prefer to have a Ranger who only spamms Steady Shot over someone who "genuinely tries but fails" with their class any day of the week if he at least knows how to place Blight Rounds, same goes for these Photon Blade spam builds on Bouncer because in the end performance is what really counts. This is where a DPS meter would instantly solve the issue as it would show you exactly who performed and who doesn't.

It was more along the lines of autoattackers, I think it’s safe to say we can agree on that not being good for the group.

Even that depends, there is a reason why you have "players that genuinely try" and still fail the expert requirements and "AA spammers" that pass. Knowing what to prioritize, what to ignore and how to position yourself can make quite the difference but you wouldn't be able to tell if you judge someone's performance based on the attacks he's using alone.

A person can pass expert requirements literally just left clicking? I think autoattacking in my example isn’t doing much for a group in UQ, DPS still matters for certain phases or it causes a wipe if the group doesn’t do enough. Left clicking the entire fight would mean relying on everyone else to be doing higher damage, it doesn’t matter if you can dodge mechanics if you’re not helping pass the DPS checks. Knowing the fight and pumping out respectable damage is expected in a fight in any MMORPG. If people found a way to contribute DPS that isn’t the meta build that’s fine, but left clicking, well I’d have to see videos of that I guess.

@Riesz people really over estimating Phaleg especially now with better gear and higher level. The story bonus quest Phaleg has about 3 million HP both first and second phase so about 6 mil HP total. The Phaleg in the extreme quest only have 1.5 mil hp for either phases so effectively only half of what is in the story. Plus in the extreme, healing is not nerfed though healing using resta or manual -mate will make you fail the stage order. You can use life leech to get around it and I don't think hunter automate trigger the stage order failure either.

Giving the HP into perspective, I'm currently challenging the new solo ultimate quest for EP6, even at depth level 1 - the boss has 66 million HP. I'm in the 80s and the boss's HP is approaching 200 million and you only have 15 minutes to burn it down.

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

A person can pass expert requirements literally just left clicking?

pretty much

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

I think autoattacking in my example isn’t doing much for a group in UQ

Keep in mind that "normal attacks" ≠ "normal attacks", some of them are rather weak and are only really usefull for PP recovery, some of them are boosted by skills, some of them are boosted by special effects and there's even one that's essentially a PA.

You can also S rank both solo Mother Omnipotent and PD on UH with normal attack spam, from what I've seen the damage numbers of individuals are rarely the reason why a MPAs goes downhill. The issues seem to be more about general damage uptime, the lack of Blight Rounds and most importantly people not playing around the mechanics. The last point seems to be especially bad in UH TD and PD PuGs.

@Ryoga

(Sorry rushed reply) Ah you make a good point about skills tied to leftclick, it’s a pretty unique feature in MMO’s from what I’ve seen. Usually at most it fills a mana bar or something. You’re right, that could be a game changer.

Could Phaleg be S ranked with this method?

@Milk said in Expert matchmaking,when?:

@Ryoga

(Sorry rushed reply) Ah you make a good point about skills tied to leftclick, it’s a pretty unique feature in MMO’s from what I’ve seen. Usually at most it fills a mana bar or something. You’re right, that could be a game changer.

Could Phaleg be S ranked with this method?

Maybe if you level capped and used the Dragon Slayer meme build? 80% more damage on normals is no joke, especially on swords.

Also to chip in on the Global population getting into Expert, take the example of the Steady Shot spamming Ra. If you switched that up for roll-cancelled Impact Slider spamming, all of a sudden he gains a bit less than 10% DPS (factoring in Standing/Mobile I believe?) and is invincible like half the time. That's basically a full SGA affix (4/3/3) in damage in exchange for bothering to hit roll at the end of every PA. Ph learns to chuck mines rather than hold shift Kugel? 17% DPS increase. Hero does the laziest version of a proper Rising Slash combo instead of holding? Nearly a 24% DPS increase. That's a full JP endgame set of 1-5 SGAs and Phrase Decay for free.

As a personal example of it, I was failing to S rank the Ep5 dual boss solo by seconds. Rather than training to do some hardcore no-hit run, I messed around a bit and figured out that Piercing Round is stupid easy to two-tick on their down phases due to size, whereas Positron can sometimes drop a hit depending on positioning. I'm not even good at the two-tick thing and I shaved entire minutes off despite missing an easy dodge and dying. The vast majority of potential Expert players are being held back by game knowledge rather than skill level.

Frankly you could probably normal/dodge normal your way through everything with phantom rifle. Each hit is basically PA damage level anyways and every successful dodge is an added nuke.